Well since the kill advocates don't care whose game they hurt, or about removing every single narrator from the story, why even go that far? We could just have the ship droids hand out the quests. Oh wait, someone probably wants them dead too because they looked in the wrong direction or something.

Lol, I posted the same thing worded differently in a different thread at the same time you posted this.

I understand why people don't like the Lana show so much, but it's only the fault of anyone who started demanding kill-options in the first place. It's this, and then when they give in to killing Lana, it really will be from a non-sentient, non-animated console. I'm sure they'll want to put a lightsaber through the screen anyway.

Lol, I posted the same thing worded differently in a different thread at the same time you posted this.

 

I understand why people don't like the Lana show so much, but it's only the fault of anyone who started demanding kill-options in the first place. It's this, and then when they give in to killing Lana, it really will be from a non-sentient, non-animated console. I'm sure they'll want to put a lightsaber through the screen anyway.

I just responded in that thread, LOL!

In a narrative story we have to have some quest givers and narrators, and in any story there have to be main characters, but people's zeal for killing off the characters has resulted in what we have now. After Lana there's literally nobody in a position of central command in the Alliance that can talk to everyone. It's absurd that the way to respond to "we've literally killed off almost everyone" would be "so let's continue it!"

I suppose for those who want to go back to the factions, they have those people to deal with, but for many, going back to the factions may also result in the loss of (killable) companions they'd like to keep. And there are the newbies, but I've already seen derogatory comments about the new women characters - and they've been around for all of five minutes.

Lol, I posted the same thing worded differently in a different thread at the same time you posted this.

 

I understand why people don't like the Lana show so much, but it's only the fault of anyone who started demanding kill-options in the first place. It's this, and then when they give in to killing Lana, it really will be from a non-sentient, non-animated console. I'm sure they'll want to put a lightsaber through the screen anyway.

Nah as stupid and boring as a text based console would be, even that is better than constant Lana. I'd rather be bored than annoyed. If they're not going to include other companions and they're not going to give us new companions and all we have left to look forward to is an eternal purgatory with only Lana then I'd rather have no companions at all I hate her that much. You're talking like a non-sentient console would be a negative tradeoff for losing Lana but it would be 100% an improvement in my eyes.

Nah as stupid and boring as a text based console would be, even that is better than constant Lana. I'd rather be bored than annoyed. If they're not going to include other companions and they're not going to give us new companions and all we have left to look forward to is an eternal purgatory with only Lana then I'd rather have no companions at all I hate her that much. You're talking like a non-sentient console would be a negative tradeoff for losing Lana but it would be 100% an improvement in my eyes.

See, they would have used other companions if they didn’t give in to cries to kill a bunch of them. And they would give new, more useful companions if they didn’t already rightfully know that the same people would want them dead in a matter of minutes too, so it would be a waste of time, money, and effort.

Kill options have reaped what they’ve sown. I suggest anyone who advocated or advocates for a single one lives with it, because the writers are too far gone to fix it or start creating new paths when there will be demands to shut down those new paths.

I don’t like that Lana is in the sunset scene for everyone either. I’m only romancing her in two of 16 toons. I get it. But since any other logical choice has been killed off for some, but not all, here you are. It’s not Lana’s fault.

I suspect that Lana would likely have been in the same role she has been in now even if they hadn't killed other NPCS.

It's also worth noting that many of the "killable" NPCS are killable after they've already left your Alliance, in which case they wouldn't be taking her role even if they were alive. And even if they were always a part of it, I doubt they would have taken many scenes from Lana. Gault is not killable, and he hasn't done much of anything, for example. Neither has T-7. Do Koth, Senya, Scorpio, Vette, Torian or Arcann really seem like people who would have been given much of Lana's screentime?

Theron is probably the only one who's role may be meaningfully reduced as a result of being killable, and like Lana, he had the problem of sometimes taking up screen time in stories that really shouldn't be about him, such as War for Iokath.

Actually, funnily enough I just watched the recent Podcast that Charles and Eric did, and this very question came up.

Charles insists that characters being killed off is not a factor in them not appearing again, he even used the same example I used: Gault hasn't appeared again either.

When asked about why you can't kill Lana he said that believes there needs to be a reason for it, and he thinks it would be hard to justify for her.

He also said he doesn't like to put in a kill option "just to put one in" and he's trying to get away from "Hey, I'm just going to be crazy for no reason" options.

When asked about why you can't kill Lana he said that believes there needs to be a reason for it, and he thinks it would be hard to justify for her.

Well she just got the Alliance involved in yet another war ... if anyone from my 'enemy' faction wants to take a shot at her ... I will permit it!

When asked about why you can't kill Lana he said that believes there needs to be a reason for it, and he thinks it would be hard to justify for her.

Yet Vette and Torian never did anything that deserved to be killed off...

Yet Ashara would've deserved one on really DS SI, rather than said Si just letting her walk away...

Koth got one for disagreeing with a DS character killing civilians...

Theron got one for trying to help the Alliance (and it could've been much worse if he did not do anything as Odessen and the Alliance would've been turned to dust)...

Kaliyo and Jorgan got one for eventually disobeying 1 order...

Yet Vette and Torian never did anything that deserved to be killed off...

Yet Ashara would've deserved one on really DS SI, rather than said Si just letting her walk away...

 

Koth got one for disagreeing with a DS character killing civilians...

Theron got one for trying to help the Alliance (and it could've been much worse if he did not do anything as Odessen and the Alliance would've been turned to dust)...

Kaliyo and Jorgan got one for eventually disobeying 1 order...

I know right? I don't want to kill her at all but that's pretty thin.

I don’t like that Lana is in the sunset scene for everyone either. I’m only romancing her in two of 16 toons. I get it. But since any other logical choice has been killed off for some, but not all, here you are. It’s not Lana’s fault.

I think you are reaching to excuse the overuse of Lana. There are plenty of other characters that could be used, especially since Charles keeps insisting they really still can use companions that aren't available for everyone. They don't even have to be companions, they can tap into our Alliance contacts. I would love to see those four used more and the precedent has been set for using them as a substitute for a killable companion!

Yet Vette and Torian never did anything that deserved to be killed off...

Yet Ashara would've deserved one on really DS SI, rather than said Si just letting her walk away...

 

Koth got one for disagreeing with a DS character killing civilians...

Theron got one for trying to help the Alliance (and it could've been much worse if he did not do anything as Odessen and the Alliance would've been turned to dust)...

Kaliyo and Jorgan got one for eventually disobeying 1 order...

Get used to it, friend. "Our" Galaxy is a cold and cruel place, there is no such thing as "they didn't deserved to die", there is no mercy or compassion ( unless it is for some bloodthirsty tyrant turned into boyfriend material over night by Voss abracadabra) .

Lana is your ball and chain ( long ago inmates had a cannonball tied to their feet to keep them from running away) and you are stuck with her for the rest of your SWTOR life. You will fight the wars she will involve your Alliance into, you will become a good little boy or girl and do whatever governess Beniko will tell you to do and so on.

Forget Vette, Torian & the others, you have the "chance" to take Lana as your space waifu and live unhappily ever after.

( yeah, i know, my storytelling skill needs leveling)

Yet Vette and Torian never did anything that deserved to be killed off...

Yet Ashara would've deserved one on really DS SI, rather than said Si just letting her walk away...

 

Koth got one for disagreeing with a DS character killing civilians...

Theron got one for trying to help the Alliance (and it could've been much worse if he did not do anything as Odessen and the Alliance would've been turned to dust)...

Kaliyo and Jorgan got one for eventually disobeying 1 order...

Charles did say they're trying to get away from the "crazy for no reason" ethos and maybe that's it. The DS Jaesa reunion contradicts that - they once again put a character into a situation where they were killable and it made sense - but I have the feeling that was written with the batch of other Badly Written Two Minute Wonders.

TBH. with Koth, I think one could make the argument that by hijacking the Gravestone and planting the bomb, and then summoning the Alliance without telling them, he put everyone in danger. Even if Koth remains in your Alliance, your PC can correctly point out that since they have the Alliance fleet there to help, Koth's stupid quantum bomb stunt has risked everything. For the record I only have one character who killed Koth to see what would happen and everyone else has kept him.

But the kill options in KOTFE and KOTET are pretty gratuitous, and the one for Quinn was obviously just something they threw in years too late to appease people who were frustrated by how the Quinncident was handled in the class story, and if they're finally acknowledging it's a bad thing and trying to move away from it, I for one am glad. And that's just not about Lana; I wouldn't want to see a character like Anri killed off in the name of needless kill options either.

I think you are reaching to excuse the overuse of Lana. There are plenty of other characters that could be used, especially since Charles keeps insisting they really still can use companions that aren't available for everyone. They don't even have to be companions, they can tap into our Alliance contacts. I would love to see those four used more and the precedent has been set for using them as a substitute for a killable companion!

I don't disagree with what they could be doing, but they're not. I hope Charles follows through and changes the way things have been going for the last few years, just as much as anyone else.

What they could do, and what they are doing, is different. A lot of evidence points to prior kill-options hampering what they can do going forward. Again, they COULD do something else---but here you are with Lana in your face again.

Are you giving them credit for what they could be doing? Or blaming Lana for what they have to deal with because of all the kill-options?

Or are they creatively bankrupt and don't realize there are other people who can give missions besides Lana who aren't dead? Or do they (probably rightly) figure that once they give a mission brief from Beywan people will be howling for his death from one side of the aisle and that avenue will shut as quickly as it opens?

Charles did say they're trying to get away from the "crazy for no reason" ethos and maybe that's it. The DS Jaesa reunion contradicts that - they once again put a character into a situation where they were killable and it made sense - but I have the feeling that was written with the batch of other Badly Written Two Minute Wonders.

 

TBH. with Koth, I think one could make the argument that by hijacking the Gravestone and planting the bomb, and then summoning the Alliance without telling them, he put everyone in danger. Even if Koth remains in your Alliance, your PC can correctly point out that since they have the Alliance fleet there to help, Koth's stupid quantum bomb stunt has risked everything. For the record I only have one character who killed Koth to see what would happen and everyone else has kept him.

 

But the kill options in KOTFE and KOTET are pretty gratuitous, and the one for Quinn was obviously just something they threw in years too late to appease people who were frustrated by how the Quinncident was handled in the class story, and if they're finally acknowledging it's a bad thing and trying to move away from it, I for one am glad. And that's just not about Lana; I wouldn't want to see a character like Anri killed off in the name of needless kill options either.

Well i've killed nearly all possible killable characters once to see how it played out, well except Kaliyo/Jorgan, i did not have that option available and Quinn and Theron as i stopped my crazy lvl65 token DS SW testing dummy on the faction choice on Iokath, and i'm not really sure i want to touch that character ever again, as i really ended up disliking that full DS aspect of him.

On all my other characters, they're all alive and well (sadly except Vette who i can't save), and honnestly my DS characters became far less DS upon starting KOTFE, i really think that absolutely all the kill options were really bad. I have no intention of killing Lana as i like her, but i really wish they never killed off all the other ones, now if they could use Lana by default only when she's the one who makes the most sense or if she's actually the only one left because the player killed everyone else, i'd be happier.

I quite liked both Anri and Tau, though i think somehow Tau moved me more. I'd not necessarily be interested in romancing any of them, but they seem like interesting characters to know better.

Yet Vette and Torian never did anything that deserved to be killed off...

Yet Ashara would've deserved one on really DS SI, rather than said Si just letting her walk away...

 

Koth got one for disagreeing with a DS character killing civilians...

Theron got one for trying to help the Alliance (and it could've been much worse if he did not do anything as Odessen and the Alliance would've been turned to dust)...

Kaliyo and Jorgan got one for eventually disobeying 1 order...

On Kaliyo it would depend on the character doing it. The only character I killed her on was my agent but my agent had enough dealings with Kaliyo that this was her last chance.

Well i've killed nearly all possible killable characters once to see how it played out, well except Kaliyo/Jorgan, i did not have that option available and Quinn and Theron as i stopped my crazy lvl65 token DS SW testing dummy on the faction choice on Iokath, and i'm not really sure i want to touch that character ever again, as i really ended up disliking that full DS aspect of him.

 

On all my other characters, they're all alive and well (sadly except Vette who i can't save), and honnestly my DS characters became far less DS upon starting KOTFE, i really think that absolutely all the kill options were really bad. I have no intention of killing Lana as i like her, but i really wish they never killed off all the other ones, now if they could use Lana by default only when she's the one who makes the most sense or if she's actually the only one left because the player killed everyone else, i'd be happier.

I quite liked both Anri and Tau, though i think somehow Tau moved me more. I'd not necessarily be interested in romancing any of them, but they seem like interesting characters to know better.

I think that Lana doesn't necessarily make sense in all the things they've put her in - I agree that it makes more sense for Theron or Bey'wan to contact the SIS for example. But I feel like we're to the point where people object if the character has two lines or shows her face at all, and IMHO that's not fair. She's a main character in the story.

As for Tau, I don't think I'd get attached even if I played through pub-side because my characters would be saboteurs, and they aren't the kind of people who would romance someone and then stab them in the back. But I think Anri is adorable and one or two of my rising characters who don't yet have romances might love her.

I think that Lana doesn't necessarily make sense in all the things they've put her in - I agree that it makes more sense for Theron or Bey'wan to contact the SIS for example. But I feel like we're to the point where people object if the character has two lines or shows her face at all, and IMHO that's not fair. She's a main character in the story.

 

As for Tau, I don't think I'd get attached even if I played through pub-side because my characters would be saboteurs, and they aren't the kind of people who would romance someone and then stab them in the back. But I think Anri is adorable and one or two of my rising characters who don't yet have romances might love her.

I personnally have no problem with her talking or advising my JK, but i'll admit that i'd love a tiny bit less of Lana and tiny bit more of Theron.

The second scene on Odessen was fine, the first one i think would've been better with both of them being there, with Lana telling you that she'd make contact with the Empire if you side with the Empire and Theron doing the same for the Republic (if he's still there that is, and if he's not part of the Alliance anymore, then only Lana), and it could've given the sunset romance scene to both of them depending on the one you're romancing.

I think i somehow have the same reasoning as you, my Imps are going saboteur, so i'd feel a bit bad to start a romance with her to backstab her in the end. And, Imp side i pretty much only have 1 character that's single and he's gay, so Anri is not really an option for him, Jonas might be though.

I think that Lana doesn't necessarily make sense in all the things they've put her in - I agree that it makes more sense for Theron or Bey'wan to contact the SIS for example. But I feel like we're to the point where people object if the character has two lines or shows her face at all, and IMHO that's not fair. She's a main character in the story.

 

As for Tau, I don't think I'd get attached even if I played through pub-side because my characters would be saboteurs, and they aren't the kind of people who would romance someone and then stab them in the back. But I think Anri is adorable and one or two of my rising characters who don't yet have romances might love her.

I think what you said about Lana is true. The only thing that will make some people happy is if she gets blown up and is never heard from again. God forbid she actually speak!

As for Anri, she''s a great new character and I hope we see more of her in the future. Two of my Imps are cheerful saboteurs but I liked Anri so much that I actually felt guilty about lying to her. (Yes, I know, none of this is real and it's all a game, lol.)

Yes, let's scream to get rid of Lana because we hate her due to the fact the devs favor her. That is totally her fault and those devs who favor her would be so willing to killing her off.

PS: Before anyone blows their gasket, I'm obviously being sarcastic.

See, they would have used other companions if they didn’t give in to cries to kill a bunch of them. And they would give new, more useful companions if they didn’t already rightfully know that the same people would want them dead in a matter of minutes too, so it would be a waste of time, money, and effort.

 

Kill options have reaped what they’ve sown. I suggest anyone who advocated or advocates for a single one lives with it, because the writers are too far gone to fix it or start creating new paths when there will be demands to shut down those new paths.

 

I don’t like that Lana is in the sunset scene for everyone either. I’m only romancing her in two of 16 toons. I get it. But since any other logical choice has been killed off for some, but not all, here you are. It’s not Lana’s fault.

Obviously it's not Lana's fault, Lana's not REAL. It's the writers fault who decided to kill everyone else to save themselves time and money and then shove Lana down our throat at every turn. Gault and T7 don't have a kill option, where are they? Where are our advisors? You're acting like the writers were some poor helpless victims that didn't WANT to kill all our companions, someone crying for blood on the forums REQUIRED them to do so. No, it was their choice and it was a purely practical one. Why write a dozen different characters, some with romances, when you can just get rid of them all and focus on one character? I didn't kill any characters, I didn't ASK for any characters to be killed and yet all of the characters I actually liked were unceremoniously dropped from the story without a word and I'm left with the one character I completely hate. The only way it could possibly be worse is if they had Doc come back as a main character and start sexually harassing us on the regular and not taking no for an answer again.

Actually, funnily enough I just watched the recent Podcast that Charles and Eric did, and this very question came up.

 

Charles insists that characters being killed off is not a factor in them not appearing again, he even used the same example I used: Gault hasn't appeared again either.

 

When asked about why you can't kill Lana he said that believes there needs to be a reason for it, and he thinks it would be hard to justify for her.

 

He also said he doesn't like to put in a kill option "just to put one in" and he's trying to get away from "Hey, I'm just going to be crazy for no reason" options.

Then he's ignoring the fact that many of us just want her gone and don't care how. Killing her may be unreasonable but parting ways with her and going "it's not working out" or "our job killing Valkorion is done, let's go our separate ways" or "I'm going back to the Republic" and she goes back to the Empire are all completely reasonable and would let those of us who aren't "crazy for no reason" get rid of her. Not to mention they're the writers, they control the story, and they could easily write any scenario they want but choose not to give us any opportunity to get rid of her.

Yet Vette and Torian never did anything that deserved to be killed off...

Yet Ashara would've deserved one on really DS SI, rather than said Si just letting her walk away...

 

Koth got one for disagreeing with a DS character killing civilians...

Theron got one for trying to help the Alliance (and it could've been much worse if he did not do anything as Odessen and the Alliance would've been turned to dust)...

Kaliyo and Jorgan got one for eventually disobeying 1 order...

Completely agree!

Get used to it, friend. "Our" Galaxy is a cold and cruel place, there is no such thing as "they didn't deserved to die", there is no mercy or compassion ( unless it is for some bloodthirsty tyrant turned into boyfriend material over night by Voss abracadabra) .

Lana is your ball and chain ( long ago inmates had a cannonball tied to their feet to keep them from running away) and you are stuck with her for the rest of your SWTOR life. You will fight the wars she will involve your Alliance into, you will become a good little boy or girl and do whatever governess Beniko will tell you to do and so on.

Forget Vette, Torian & the others, you have the "chance" to take Lana as your space waifu and live unhappily ever after.

( yeah, i know, my storytelling skill needs leveling)

LMAO you may be joking but that's exactly what it feels like!

I don't disagree with what they could be doing, but they're not. I hope Charles follows through and changes the way things have been going for the last few years, just as much as anyone else.

What they could do, and what they are doing, is different. A lot of evidence points to prior kill-options hampering what they can do going forward. Again, they COULD do something else---but here you are with Lana in your face again.

Are you giving them credit for what they could be doing? Or blaming Lana for what they have to deal with because of all the kill-options?

Or are they creatively bankrupt and don't realize there are other people who can give missions besides Lana who aren't dead? Or do they (probably rightly) figure that once they give a mission brief from Beywan people will be howling for his death from one side of the aisle and that avenue will shut as quickly as it opens?

You can't possibly believe that the reason people want Lana gone is because she gives you missions and as soon as someone else gives you a mission they will want that person dead too I guess you completely forgot about the vanilla class stories then, how many people were calling for the death of the multitude of questgivers we had giving us our story missions? I never saw any though maybe the standard edgelords who want to kill everything did. Again, the WRITERS decide who lives and who dies. One guy screaming for every character he sees to die does not mean the writers are obligated to throw up their hands and go "welp, another character that doesn't have 100% universal appeal, I guess we have no choice but to kill them." Please.

Yes, let's scream to get rid of Lana because we hate her due to the fact the devs favor her. That is totally her fault and those devs who favor her would be so willing to killing her off.

 

 

PS: Before anyone blows their gasket, I'm obviously being sarcastic.

Why do people talk in terms of things being "her fault" vs the writers fault? Everything she says and does is the writers fault since she isn't real. I hate her as a character and I don't want her constantly forced on me. That isn't an unreasonable stance.

I don't disagree with what they could be doing, but they're not. I hope Charles follows through and changes the way things have been going for the last few years, just as much as anyone else.

What they could do, and what they are doing, is different. A lot of evidence points to prior kill-options hampering what they can do going forward. Again, they COULD do something else---but here you are with Lana in your face again.

Are you giving them credit for what they could be doing? Or blaming Lana for what they have to deal with because of all the kill-options?

Or are they creatively bankrupt and don't realize there are other people who can give missions besides Lana who aren't dead? Or do they (probably rightly) figure that once they give a mission brief from Beywan people will be howling for his death from one side of the aisle and that avenue will shut as quickly as it opens?

I'm not giving them any credit for what they could be doing, because they aren't doing it. That doesn't even make sense to me.

I don't blame Lana at all, and never have. I squarely blame poor writing. It was due to poor writing that they overused Lana and Theron in FE/ET and it is poor writing that they continue to overuse Lana in JUS.

Not using another character because maybe some people won't like them is just silly. There will always be people who don't like certain characters for one reason or another and professional writers know that. I would be mortified if that figured into their scripting at all.

So the SIS was trying to contact us all this time and Lana just decided on her own that we shouldn't be able to talk to them or ally with them...PLEASE let me get rid of this stupid horrible shrew! I don't care if she's your waifu BioWare, she sure as hell isn't mine and will never be no matter how much you try to shove her down my throat. Ugh.

I know, as for her being in the Sunset Scene, My Trooper would have wanted his WIFE, Elara, there with him. My JK will prefer a true friend there with him like Theron. My JC would like Arcann and Senya with her, my Agents would both want Theron, and finally my BH wants her fiancée Theron there.

And where is the so-called vaunted unconditional support of PC if she's holding back information we may want or need because she thinks she can make our choices for us!

I'm not giving them any credit for what they could be doing, because they aren't doing it. That doesn't even make sense to me.

 

I don't blame Lana at all, and never have. I squarely blame poor writing. It was due to poor writing that they overused Lana and Theron in FE/ET and it is poor writing that they continue to overuse Lana in JUS.

 

Not using another character because maybe some people won't like them is just silly. There will always be people who don't like certain characters for one reason or another and professional writers know that. I would be mortified if that figured into their scripting at all.

But how did they "overuse" Lana in JUS? She had one short scene to set up the quest, she and Theron have a short scene to send you on her way, and then you never see or hear from her again for the remainder of the chapter. There isn't even a debrief at the end.

I feel like we're getting to the point where Lana's not allowed to say or do anything, even set up the mission as the Alliance quest giver.

And yes, I do feel like if they used someone else people would whine just as much eventually.

There will always be people who don't like certain characters for one reason or another and professional writers know that. I would be mortified if that figured into their scripting at all.

And this is why I hope they will not stop using Lana to set up the scenes, even if she's not in the main action anymore. She's a main character in the game, like it or not, and it's become her role to function as the primary Alliance quest giver, and they shouldn't pull her out of that role because some people don't like talking to her - any more than they should take Theron out of that role, too.

I think it made sense for Jedi Under Siege to begin the way it did with the Lana scene. But personally, I'd say that in light of the available time and resources being what they are, giving her not one but two different romance scenes struck me as an unfair use of them. The sunset scene was fine on it's own, but it's superfluous and with Nadia and Doc coming back, it's dialogue that could have been better put elsewhere.

Lana was already getting a goodbye kiss moments later and the main story already had some jarring omissions in the dialogue, such as unromanced Consulars not getting to say "Nadia, it's so good to see you" or anything when they first land on Ossus.