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Developer Update: Overview of the Planet Makeb


CourtneyWoods

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Being able to "participate" isn't the issue Courtney....we can participate now virtually anywhere. Is it going to be promoted or encouraged in any form (via quests)? In order for world PvP to happen naturally, we need overlapping objectives and incentive that competes with WZ's - this is a gear progression game and without the ability to progress via world PvP, it won't happen with frequency. Does Makeb address this lack of any reward from PvP in any form?

 

Hey TUXs,

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Makeb quite fits your specific requests. As I stated previously, it offers similar open world PvP to other same faction planets in our game.

 

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the Relics of the Gree event. This was definitely a step forward for us in creating an event which had incentives for Open World PvP.

 

As Chuixupu said, something like what you were describing would be something we would definitely have an announcement around and we have no information right now on any systems like that for Makeb.

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In order for world PvP to happen naturally, we need overlapping objectives and incentive that competes with WZ's - this is a gear progression game and without the ability to progress via world PvP, it won't happen with frequency. Does Makeb address this lack of any reward from PvP in any form?

 

The rewards from open world PVP should never be equivalent or competitive with WZ rewards. Any attempts at open world PVP in this game have repeatedly demonstrated that many people will just trade objectives, kills, etc. to get the open world PVP rewards without actually PVP'ing at all.

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Being able to "participate" isn't the issue Courtney....we can participate now virtually anywhere. Is it going to be promoted or encouraged in any form (via quests)? In order for world PvP to happen naturally, we need overlapping objectives and incentive that competes with WZ's - this is a gear progression game and without the ability to progress via world PvP, it won't happen with frequency. Does Makeb address this lack of any reward from PvP in any form?

 

If it needs to be promoted so much, isn't this a hint that people just don't want it?

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I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the Relics of the Gree event. This was definitely a step forward for us in creating an event which had incentives for Open World PvP.

 

As Chuixupu said, something like what you were describing would be something we would definitely have an announcement around and we have no information right now on any systems like that for Makeb.

 

Not the OP, but IMO the Gree event Open World PVP is a major fail on the part of BW. What it did on my server is ruined the reputation of several players and a couple of guilds. The non-PVP players now not only dislike open world PVP and the people who want it, but activiely hate them. Putting a PVE quest in a PVP area doesn't encourage PVP. It encourages people to get angry because they don't want to participate in PVP to complete PVE quests. Those who just wanted to complete the PVE quests are terribly upset with the people who would group up and attack any single player they could find in the PVP area. What were you thinking? Honestly, what were you thinking? That portion of an otherwise good event was a disaster, pure and simple. Try listneing to the assorted podcasts out there. I haven't heard one that gave that part a favorable review but all have given great descriptions of why it was a disaster for the game and players.

 

My suggestion, leave open-workd PVP to PVP servers. Remove open world PVP areas from PVE servers. Let people who want to PVP all the time move to PVP servers for free. You already knwo how to migrate characters from server to server.

 

On PVE servers, let people flag for PVP if they want to but don't have antywhere they are forced into it outside of warzones and certainly don't put PVE quests in PVP areas. While you're at it, fix the bugs that flag people for PVP when some abusive moron flagged for PVP jumps into their AOE to purporsely get the other player flagged or when they heal someone flagged for PVP outside a PVP area. Honestly, these have been issues for so long you'd think they'd have been fixed way before now.

 

Give these issues some thoguht before you put the Gree back out or cme up with some other brilliant idea that mizes PVE and PVP players. Mixing the two in one area simply makes for a lot of angry players, a lot of name calling on both sides and a lot fo hurt feelings. Somehow none of these things seem like a good idea for a game that requires a happy community for the game to continue.

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The rewards from open world PVP should never be equivalent or competitive with WZ rewards. Any attempts at open world PVP in this game have repeatedly demonstrated that many people will just trade objectives, kills, etc. to get the open world PVP rewards without actually PVP'ing at all.

 

I agree that people default into trading objectives, a la the lines that formed to turn in orbs for the gree event. Not sure if kills would get traded as easily though, just cos of the communication barrier between sides.

 

I don't see why they couldn't do a daily to kill 5-10 players of the other faction wouldn't work, so long as it only counts to kill that's the same level as you - maybe at lower levels it only counts if they're within 4 levels of you or something. I think keeping it to a small number of kills, and allowing it to be fulfilled on any planet, would help keep the crazy Ilum mob situation from happening. And make the rewards be solely PVP related.

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If it needs to be promoted so much, isn't this a hint that people just don't want it?

 

100% true. From my own standpoint, I think that we've seen a drop in Open World PvP for nearly every MMORPG aside from WoW. Even in Rift, they've realized that most people don't play their game to PvP and have decided to join both factions together on any server that isn't a PvP server. Back in the day, when I played WoW, hundreds vs. hundreds in Southshore wasn't because you were going to get something. Grouping with a couple 40 man raids of stealthers to invade Orgrimmar wasn't to get something. Open World PvP is, and always will be, for your own enjoyment. It's to push your own superiority over others in an objective free environment.

 

Even with the Gree event, I never encountered a single person who wanted to attack me while I was doing the PvP quests. You'd see people standing in line to turn in the capacitor (or whatever it's called). But, in summation, there doesn't need to be a reason given to you if you want to PvP in the open world. That is for your own enjoyment. If you need a reward to do it, then you're obviously not that interested in it to begin with.

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I agree that people default into trading objectives, a la the lines that formed to turn in orbs for the gree event. Not sure if kills would get traded as easily though, just cos of the communication barrier between sides.

 

Oh, it happens. People get characters on both sides and then swap around who plays what, stand their to get killed, then the other side standas there, etc. Then they swap out characters and do it again. All for the rewards.

 

I don't see why they couldn't do a daily to kill 5-10 players of the other faction wouldn't work, so long as it only counts to kill that's the same level as you - maybe at lower levels it only counts if they're within 4 levels of you or something. I think keeping it to a small number of kills, and allowing it to be fulfilled on any planet, would help keep the crazy Ilum mob situation from happening. And make the rewards be solely PVP related.

 

On PVP servers this might or might not work. On PVE servers it's just going to piss people off even more. Definitely not a good idea in that environment.

Edited by DanNV
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This looks like a lot of fun : ) It's great to hear what the thought process was behind it. My husband and I pre-oredered in January. This will be fun. Hope the pvp isn't going to overflow so those of us who like pve get stuck dodging pvp. But it sounds like it will be balanced. Thanks for letting us know about this.
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100% true. From my own standpoint, I think that we've seen a drop in Open World PvP for nearly every MMORPG aside from WoW. Even in Rift, they've realized that most people don't play their game to PvP and have decided to join both factions together on any server that isn't a PvP server. Back in the day, when I played WoW, hundreds vs. hundreds in Southshore wasn't because you were going to get something. Grouping with a couple 40 man raids of stealthers to invade Orgrimmar wasn't to get something. Open World PvP is, and always will be, for your own enjoyment. It's to push your own superiority over others in an objective free environment.

 

Even with the Gree event, I never encountered a single person who wanted to attack me while I was doing the PvP quests. You'd see people standing in line to turn in the capacitor (or whatever it's called). But, in summation, there doesn't need to be a reason given to you if you want to PvP in the open world. That is for your own enjoyment. If you need a reward to do it, then you're obviously not that interested in it to begin with.

 

Don't equate "objectives" and "incentives." Also, open world PvP means something a little different to everyone. I think of it as when pvp can happen in the regular game world, not in a timed instance that you get teleported to and from. But just because its happening in the regular game world doesn't mean it can't be objective based, or incentivized, or both. I'll use Star Wars Galaxies as a comparison, since TUX would be familiar with it and can agree or disagree with my comparisons. I considered Restuss to be a form of open world pvp ... it had timed events (dropships, the Emperor's Hand spawn) and quests that could be completed easier when your faction controlled the ruins. But it was all happening in real time, not in an isolated "instance" and what happened in Restuss in many ways changed the dynamics of the faction conflicts for hours or even days. The battle itself was not scripted or objective based. It was the same with the static bases. Furthermore, battles in any of these zones often led to smaller skirmishes with starport hopping, with pvp going on for hours and hours waxing and waning. I wouldn't consider these zones as "free form" but they provided a tinder that fueled a larger fire in subsequent hours that was truly pvp for the sake of fun, even though there were some incentives.

 

Some opponents may have argued that those battles were big zerg fests, but how is that any different than zerging in, say Voidstar or any other warzone?

 

The Gree event could have been like that style of open world pvp, with factions vying for control of the energy pylon, just like Alliance and Empire battled over the ruins of restuss. The faction with the better pvp'ers would be able to gain reputation faster. However, with only cosmetic items to be won, there was little incentive for the factional pvp'ers to move from warzones, and with free for all flagging, it created a huge opportunity for griefing. Personally, I was disappointed in the faction on same faction pvp, for the same reasons I frowned upon same faction bounty hunting in SWG. There is already a zone if you want to pound on your own faction, its called Outlaw's Den ... and you can also pound on your own faction in warzones, though less predictably.

 

Finally, the linear and phased nature of SWTOR limits some of the spontaneity in galaxy-wide pvp. You won't see mini battles and skirmishes diffusing off Ilum and onto other worlds. You can't starport hop like you could in SWG and watch the battle move from Restuss to Theed to Mos Eisley and back to Restuss over a course of several hours.

 

All in all, I was expecting more from the pvp aspects of the event and, I guess, more from members of my faction, but I guess griefers will always be griefers.

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If it needs to be promoted so much, isn't this a hint that people just don't want it?

 

Not at all, it's just that the majority of people prefer to do something that gives rewards and fun than something that is just fun.

They also prefer to do something if there's an objective than if there's none.

 

The same way in PvE, why do you think older endgame content is less done than the new one ? Why is there a lot less people that still do the first dailies and instead focus more on Section X ?

 

Most of people want to feel like they achieved something or earn something after a play session. Warzones give comms, you get new gear, consumables, scoreboard and medals help for the e-peen, there are objectives, ... owPvP, you only get the personal satisfaction to defeat another player, no need to be a genius to see why warzones happen all the time and why owPvP almost never.

 

 

As for why, back in the days, owPvP happened, even without reward, the answer is simple, it was "new" and most of the games didn't have PvP gear. One of the big reasons too was the feeling to be part of a faction was there. People were proud of their character and faction, now it's not the case anymore. Mass owPvP always was with an objective, even if it's just to prove the "superiority" of your faction. Raids against faction chiefs in WoW were important when people cared about being part of the Horde or the Alliance, now people don't care.

It's a problem of general game design, if you don't give players a reason to care about their faction, there will never be owPvP.

 

 

Finally, as for the problem of "exploits" in owPvP, like kill trading/sharing, it's not rocket science. Many things have been done in other games, without being a game designer and posting this at 3 AM, things like locking the login to the other faction for a while after being engaged in owPvP, limiting how much you are rewarded over a period of time, limiting how often you are rewarded for killing a specific character,...

 

 

Star Wars is about conflicts, it's about the opposition between the Republic and the Empire, between the Jedi and the Sith, it's kinda odd that SWTOR almost completely ignores this.

 

 

 

PS: As for the Gree Event, thx for the try but imo it failed. The limited duration of the event made many people care only about efficiently earning Rep and components, disregarding the PvP nature of the area. The FFA PvP is imo a wrong choice for Star Wars. Faction vs faction even guild vs guild (wars between guild) I'm fine with. I was expecting a better social experience, which would encourage players to cooperate to attack, control and defend different places and that would reward players for fighting others not for completing a PvE objective.

Edited by Turshek
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Not sure if kills would get traded as easily though, just cos of the communication barrier between sides.

 

What communication barrier?

/say is visible to both factions, and is regularly used for teams to chat inside warzones

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Hey TUXs,

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Makeb quite fits your specific requests. As I stated previously, it offers similar open world PvP to other same faction planets in our game.

 

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the Relics of the Gree event. This was definitely a step forward for us in creating an event which had incentives for Open World PvP.

 

As Chuixupu said, something like what you were describing would be something we would definitely have an announcement around and we have no information right now on any systems like that for Makeb.

Thank you Courtney.

 

My thoughts on The Relics of the Gree event were that it was certainly a step forward for PvP...at least in the factional PvE/PVP area. I loved the looking over our shoulders constantly and enjoyed deciding who to attack and who to let go (usually ignoring solo players or under leveled players), I even enjoyed the beatings I'd take when trying to get my objectives done solo some nights. Having the cross faction objectives like you did, created the atmosphere I was hoping to see more of on Makeb, where our paths don't simply intersect (like Section X or Black Hole), but they completely overlap. I really enjoyed fighting over the same objectives and had a ton of fun doing so.

 

The FFA zone however, was a bit of a miss imo. I understand it was likely designed as a FFA area because of the faction imbalances, and I give your team credit for coming up with a solution to a (seemingly) very difficult problem, but I never initiated an attack on another Pub player 1st (being Pub myself), which lead to many times where we'd simply stand in line until someone opened fire. My feeling is that this area fell flat mostly because it was a limited time event where completing the objectives was rewarded much more than fighting opponents was. Players aren't stupid and most will do what they need to do to get their trinkets. The options presented to players was A) stand in line and finish the quest in 15min or B) Fight the other players and waste 2-3 hours not getting anything done. Because it was a limited time thing, players chose to wait in line most places. Had attacking other players been more rewarding (like blow up 10 orb carrying players), it could have been an entirely different experience.

 

To summarize, the factional area was great (on a PvP server), but the lack of any reason to kill orb carriers in the FFA zone, hampered that experience. Reward the activity you want players to engage in and they'll do it.

 

 

If it needs to be promoted so much, isn't this a hint that people just don't want it?

Not at all Icebergy. Using that same logic, why should Operations or FPs drop anything? Shouldn't players be doing Ops for the fun of it? No rewards, no coins, no gear? Ops and FPs would die in a day without rewards. PvP is really no different - players play MMOs to collect "stuff", in SWTOR, that's generally gear.

 

Open World PvP NEEDS to compete with Warzones to increase participation and encourage the organic growth Bioware wants from it. SWTOR is a game all about gear and gear progression, and currently, the only way to progress your PvP gear is via Warzones...which impacts OWPvP participation. It goes back to the FFA area in the Gree event - players realize that OWPvP doesn't reward them anything towards their gear progress so they generally opt to do Warzones. Players like (need) carrots - in PvP or PvE - toss a few out and you'd be amazed at what can happen.

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Don't equate "objectives" and "incentives." Also, open world PvP means something a little different to everyone. I think of it as when pvp can happen in the regular game world, not in a timed instance that you get teleported to and from. But just because its happening in the regular game world doesn't mean it can't be objective based, or incentivized, or both. I'll use Star Wars Galaxies as a comparison, since TUX would be familiar with it and can agree or disagree with my comparisons. I considered Restuss to be a form of open world pvp ... it had timed events (dropships, the Emperor's Hand spawn) and quests that could be completed easier when your faction controlled the ruins. But it was all happening in real time, not in an isolated "instance" and what happened in Restuss in many ways changed the dynamics of the faction conflicts for hours or even days. The battle itself was not scripted or objective based. It was the same with the static bases. Furthermore, battles in any of these zones often led to smaller skirmishes with starport hopping, with pvp going on for hours and hours waxing and waning. I wouldn't consider these zones as "free form" but they provided a tinder that fueled a larger fire in subsequent hours that was truly pvp for the sake of fun, even though there were some incentives.

 

Some opponents may have argued that those battles were big zerg fests, but how is that any different than zerging in, say Voidstar or any other warzone?

 

The Gree event could have been like that style of open world pvp, with factions vying for control of the energy pylon, just like Alliance and Empire battled over the ruins of restuss. The faction with the better pvp'ers would be able to gain reputation faster. However, with only cosmetic items to be won, there was little incentive for the factional pvp'ers to move from warzones, and with free for all flagging, it created a huge opportunity for griefing. Personally, I was disappointed in the faction on same faction pvp, for the same reasons I frowned upon same faction bounty hunting in SWG. There is already a zone if you want to pound on your own faction, its called Outlaw's Den ... and you can also pound on your own faction in warzones, though less predictably.

 

Finally, the linear and phased nature of SWTOR limits some of the spontaneity in galaxy-wide pvp. You won't see mini battles and skirmishes diffusing off Ilum and onto other worlds. You can't starport hop like you could in SWG and watch the battle move from Restuss to Theed to Mos Eisley and back to Restuss over a course of several hours.

 

All in all, I was expecting more from the pvp aspects of the event and, I guess, more from members of my faction, but I guess griefers will always be griefers.

 

Very good post!!!! :D

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I'm just going to pop in to say that open world PVP area idea didn't work very well, the endless waves of QQ made it pretty clear that people HATED the idea and I cant say I don't disagree, as I got QUITE tired of getting into groups for the heroic 4 and people were flagged, so whilst healing them I ended up getting flagged and at risk for PVP which I have zero interest in, and a LOT of people now have a very negative reputation on shadowlands for greifing people during the event as well as some guilds.

 

Overall I would recommend not trying this sort of thing again.

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Hey TUXs,

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Makeb quite fits your specific requests. As I stated previously, it offers similar open world PvP to other same faction planets in our game.

 

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the Relics of the Gree event. This was definitely a step forward for us in creating an event which had incentives for Open World PvP.

 

As Chuixupu said, something like what you were describing would be something we would definitely have an announcement around and we have no information right now on any systems like that for Makeb.

 

Courtney,

 

Thank you for taking the time to post in the forums. I and many others really appreciate when you and the community team do so. However, I will reserve the right to disagree with your statement about the Gree event taking a step forward in terms of open world PvP. While the daily's themselves were entertaining and profitable (world boss looks cool--haven't done it yet), this is not the PvP we're looking for..... I stated in another forum of the apparent disconnect of what open world PvP is---between what BioWare thinks vs. what many PvP folks expect (sorry, but we do not want PvE mixed with our PvP). Quite frankly, keep it simple--give us PvP XP for killing opposite faction (similar to what was once on Ilum), regardless of the planet period. I garantee you that the PvP community at large will take care of the rest.

 

While the Ilum "project" was a noble effort, I feel that you guys simply put too much thought (and time) into this aspect, given all of the other technical asperations/challenges you all had at launch. Doing the simple thing would have given you guys time to add more substance to PvP later on down the road (PvP objectives, true battle grounds, bounty-hunting--yeah I know :rolleyes:. Oh well just my two cents, hope this isn't taken as an attack.

 

On a positive note, the changes on the PTS thus far for 2.0 are excellent. But please for the sake of the PvP community and even those with the slightest of interest, please, please, please, have the dev team move open world PvP up on "the big wall of crazy." Currently WZ's (though a nice diversion) & Ilum are not going to hold the complete interest of PvP centric folks....... Thanks for your time...........

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I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the Relics of the Gree event. This was definitely a step forward for us in creating an event which had incentives for Open World PvP.

 

I thought it was good, and I'd actually hoped that you'd leave some daily quests on the planet to lure people there.

 

Still, things were sometimes rather lame, even on a PvP server. Maybe it was because of the whole thing (i.e., Jar'kai Sword) being a German server, but we quickly had a culture of mostly peaceful queueing in the central dome.

 

Still, having such a focused area where interactions were more likely was surely exciting, and I guess with the Treaty of Coruscant still d****** (seriously, the profanity filter is bananas) its flimsy cloth over the whole matter, not beating each other up on first sight is not entirely incompatible with the setting.

 

Ultimately, I don't think truly "open" PvP would work in this game (for performance-, balance-, and some other even more basic reasons), but having opportunities to casually meet up and beat the snot out of each other makes things far more exciting, and since people won't really do that without a numerical incentive, I'd very much love to see more of those events.

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I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the Relics of the Gree event. This was definitely a step forward for us in creating an event which had incentives for Open World PvP.
There were 0 incentives. You received NOTHING from killing another player. Handing over warzone commendations for completing a mission no different than any other simply because of it's location was also wrong from the stance of game design. I now have hundreds of warzone commendations on characters with 0 Valor and attained them on days where I never had to kill another player.

 

All the PvP area of the Gree event did was add (in great numbers) to the black list of members our guild won't play with. You created problems and hatred and forced most of us to simply rule that mission out as one to be tackled daily.

 

Those that enjoyed slaughtering others who didn't want to be there in the first place gained absolutely nothing from it - no valor, no commendations for kills, no gear tokens, no nothing worth their time. Simply queuing and leaving Ilum is far better time spent for anyone who cares about PvP. Forcing PvP on those who didn't want it was extremely unpopular, and you didn't even reward those who took advantage of it.

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I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the Relics of the Gree event. This was definitely a step forward for us in creating an event which had incentives for Open World PvP.

 

First, the good:

1. I could tell you guys put some serious effort into optimizing Ilum for large skirmishes. Very smooth performance relative to what I was used to.

2. Your genuine attempt to make interesting OW-PvP was appreciated.

 

The bad:

1. FFA PvP is just not how people envision OW-PvP in a star wars game.

2. Not being able to tell who was grouped or on what faction was confusing and irritating.

3. Not worth the time invested, even for pvp fans, if you wanted to complete the mission and progress the character.

 

In the future, I think OW-PvP should incorporate the following:

1. Faction vs faction

2. An objective to fight over that can only be enjoyed by one side at a time (e.g., faction buff)

3. A mechanism to keep the sides even or fairly even. I think a queue to get in would be best.

 

I want to fight the other faction. I want something worthwhile to fight over where I'm not incentivized to kill trade. I want the fight to be fair. The above three constraints satisfy these three conditions.

 

Thanks for taking feedback!

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  • Dev Post
One problem I am concerned with is, from the looks of it. The planet Makeb seems to be way over populated with human species. Meaning human NPC's. Who if any are the native dominating sentient species? Is there one?

 

Hi Xorcist,

 

While there is no native sentient species on Makeb, the planet's flora and fauna are quite unique and exotic, and the sentient population is definitely not exclusively human. Twi'leks, Zabraks, Nikto, Weequay, and many other species make their home on Makeb.

 

Thanks for your question!

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You bring up the story as covered in chapters prologue to 3 and it is clear that the Imperial stories are for the most part pointless. No matter what choices the Warrior, Inquisitor, Agent and Bounty hunter have made they are losing, with the players being the hero of the new age they are shown as not being up to the task of those that have come before.

 

So with that in mind what is being done to allow for the Imperial Player choices to have an effect on the galaxy and the story of the old republic. What lies in store for Imperial players who so far have seen very little other than in fighting and pointless story arcs that are unwritten in the Republic story arcs? When will the Empire strike back or will Rise of the Hutt Cartel be nothing more than pointless running around tomb raiding for the Empire players which will end up going no where.

 

Hi Costello,

 

I would disagree with the assertion that Imperial players' actions were pointless. While the Empire as a whole is in a tough position at the start of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, it's likely that they'd have been completely obliterated without the actions of the Imperial players who eliminated a number of massive threats both internal and external. Without the players, it would be impossible to act on the opportunities Makeb presents, and if the Empire is indeed going to strike back, it will only be accomplished through the leadership and battle prowess of the players.

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Don't equate "objectives" and "incentives." Also, open world PvP means something a little different to everyone. I think of it as when pvp can happen in the regular game world, not in a timed instance that you get teleported to and from. But just because its happening in the regular game world doesn't mean it can't be objective based, or incentivized, or both. I'll use Star Wars Galaxies as a comparison, since TUX would be familiar with it and can agree or disagree with my comparisons. I considered Restuss to be a form of open world pvp ... it had timed events (dropships, the Emperor's Hand spawn) and quests that could be completed easier when your faction controlled the ruins. But it was all happening in real time, not in an isolated "instance" and what happened in Restuss in many ways changed the dynamics of the faction conflicts for hours or even days. The battle itself was not scripted or objective based. It was the same with the static bases. Furthermore, battles in any of these zones often led to smaller skirmishes with starport hopping, with pvp going on for hours and hours waxing and waning. I wouldn't consider these zones as "free form" but they provided a tinder that fueled a larger fire in subsequent hours that was truly pvp for the sake of fun, even though there were some incentives.

 

From what I just read about Restuss, it reminds me of Wintergrasp somewhat. And from what I can tell, there were objectives. However, that isn't necessarily Open World PvP. It's more of an Open World Battleground. Open World PvP happens in places that aren't specifically set up for PvP. That particular area was specifically set up to be made for PvP. The same goes for Wintergrasp in WoW. You had one defending the keep and one attacking. It happened every couple of hours and whoever won gained many benefits like being able to farm for crystallized elements, run the raid inside of the keep, enable sets of dailies, and gain a 5% faction wide experience bump. However, I wouldn't call that Open World PvP. It's not the same as raiding an opposing faction's city or fighting massive battles in low level areas of the map. To me, THAT is Open World PvP.

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Hi Costello,

 

I would disagree with the assertion that Imperial players' actions were pointless. While the Empire as a whole is in a tough position at the start of Rise of the Hutt Cartel, it's likely that they'd have been completely obliterated without the actions of the Imperial players who eliminated a number of massive threats both internal and external. Without the players, it would be impossible to act on the opportunities Makeb presents, and if the Empire is indeed going to strike back, it will only be accomplished through the leadership and battle prowess of the players.

 

I disagree. The Republic and Empire characters start on equal ground. Yet the Empire loses every single planet except Taris, Korriban and Dromund Kaas (although the Republic still wins the battle at Dromund Kass).

It's very disheartening that you play through the story and your actions have no consequence because of word of god says your faction sucks.

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You bring up the story as covered in chapters prologue to 3 and it is clear that the Imperial stories are for the most part pointless. No matter what choices the Warrior, Inquisitor, Agent and Bounty hunter have made they are losing, with the players being the hero of the new age they are shown as not being up to the task of those that have come before.

 

So with that in mind what is being done to allow for the Imperial Player choices to have an effect on the galaxy and the story of the old republic. What lies in store for Imperial players who so far have seen very little other than in fighting and pointless story arcs that are unwritten in the Republic story arcs? When will the Empire strike back or will Rise of the Hutt Cartel be nothing more than pointless running around tomb raiding for the Empire players which will end up going no where.

The problem with this assumption is that if it went the other way i could easily make the same argument as you from the Republic's point of view. Someone has to win and someone has to lose; most likely it will be some form of back and forth. Just as the joker said to the Batman" I have a feeling we will be doing this for a long time".

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