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Stop complaining about the War Hero grind


rob_y

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Everyone's always saying that it takes forever to grind enough gear to be competitive in 50 PvP.

 

I just dinged 50 about an hour ago and I had 2864 ranked comms, 1841 regular comms. That didn't take a ton of PvP while leveling to accomplish (I wasn't skipping a ton of content or something - I finished my class quest by level 46 and even did enough space missions to have 295 fleet comms and a power conversion module on my ship).

 

I grabbed my recruit gear, bought a War Hero mainhand and BM boots (I was just shy of buying the BM pants that I wanted next) and equipped a Columi level pair of legacy gloves that I had sent over from a different character (these were barely better than recruit gloves, so they don't make much of a difference).

 

Since Voidstar is a good DPS-check, here's a screenshot of how I did an hour after hitting 50. We lost, of course, but I don't think the level of my gear had anything to do with that (it was mostly bad communication on the part of our team). I'm just trying to show that with fresh 50 gear, you CAN be competitive in regular warzones. Gear doesn't make as big a difference as some people seem to think.

 

I'm mostly posting this so I can just refer people to this when they complain about the post-50 gear grind. Also, it's on a Commando, so I get to kill two birds with one stone.

 

Here're the two links:

 

Me about to hit 50: http://i46.tinypic.com/4gt9p3.jpg

My first 50 Voidstar on this character: http://i46.tinypic.com/dxnsqq.jpg

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except the full WH commando would do 600k (without any effort) or more (putting some effort and skill).

 

I'm fine with this answer, since my goal was to show that a.) gear isn't a huge deal and/or b.) commandos CAN do DPS in PvP.

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To the OP:

 

The devs already said the gear gap is not within their own expected ranges. That's why they rolled out MK-2 Recruit gear. They also said they'll be doing a Bolster-type power bump at 50 to address the issue, if I recall correctly. So while you're entitled to your opinion, this issue has already been conceded by the devs, been the subject of one fix and is going to be further addressed in future updates.

 

For the record, I also agree that it goes quickly if you bank your comms. That said, just because you can gear up to some BM and WH with banked comms and gear up to BM relatively quickly doesn't mean the gear gap isn't an issue more generally. Many (not all) matches are decided by the respective teams gear gap and it's no fun on either side of the equation.

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So you play one game in the best damage tree in the game, lose while dying 11 times and tell people to stop whining?

 

Recruit gear is bad. I have a full aug WH Guardian with both damage and tank sets of gear fully modded out properly. I have a new 50 Juggernaut in recruit gear that has WH Lightsaber and Offhand from levels 40-50. The difference is night and day. I easily die 10+ times a game, get killed within a 4 second stun and I'm afraid to guard people because I will die in seconds if that person gets hit by anything dangerous (ie. smash, pyros).

 

I am the primary target of enemy dps the second they realize Im in recruit, as Im essentially a free kill. On the Guardian I am the last target, because it is a huge time commitment to try to bring it down.

 

Posting a single screenshot of a single game is a joke. Under the right circumstances you can put up great numbers. I put up 200k damage and 300k protection in recruit yesterday because the other team didnt have enough damage to kill people through our fully geared healers. If the other team had a few decent players however, I wouldve been toast.

 

The fact is you would never bring a full recruit player to a rated warzone, and that should speak for the issue. Even full BM isnt good enough. I dont understand the logic of the gear grind in this game. It is a barrier to (re-)entry in this game for unsubbed players, and as a subbed player with more time than the average player, it is a still an unfun bore. It is also a barrier to entry for rated warzones (probably why theyre so unpopular) because you need the right 8 man composition and you need everyone fully geared. Not an easy thing to have, at least not consistently.

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DPS is not the problem at all as a fresh 50 in recruits gear/few bm pieces. It's survivability running around with 14k morale. You are a free kill, sure you can still put out decent damage, but when you die in 3 globals, well what good are you to your team? Edited by Devilk
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The fact is you would never bring a full recruit player to a rated warzone, and that should speak for the issue. Even full BM isnt good enough. I dont understand the logic of the gear grind in this game. It is a barrier to (re-)entry in this game for unsubbed players, and as a subbed player with more time than the average player, it is a still an unfun bore. It is also a barrier to entry for rated warzones (probably why theyre so unpopular) because you need the right 8 man composition and you need everyone fully geared. Not an easy thing to have, at least not consistently.

 

Holy crap, man...cry some more please. You wouldnt take someone in PVE greens to do hardmode EC would you? NOPE. Its the same thing, rateds right now tend to be for the best of the best. Not the noobs. If you want to be on even par with someone who has spent a huge amount of time dedicated to playing as soon as you turn the computer on...then this isn't your game. Maybe you should try Call of Duty...or better yet the sims sounds more like your kind of game. Damn right my guardian will roflstomp your *** in 5 seconds if you just dinged 50. Ive been playing him since the game came out. I don't complain when i switch to my combat medic or my shadow in recruit/bm gear that i cant just face roll everyone, I havent put the time in on them to earn that. Go vote for Obama maybe he'll tell you "they didn't build their toons" and give you a free set of WH.

 

 

That said I do think they need an arena system for small groups of 2-4, would make it much easier to get people into competetive pvp and much easier to group the bads with the bads and the pros with the pros so we don't have to listen to so much QQ.

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Holy crap, man...cry some more please. You wouldnt take someone in PVE greens to do hardmode EC would you? NOPE. Its the same thing, rateds right now tend to be for the best of the best. Not the noobs. If you want to be on even par with someone who has spent a huge amount of time dedicated to playing as soon as you turn the computer on...then this isn't your game. Maybe you should try Call of Duty...or better yet the sims sounds more like your kind of game. Damn right my guardian will roflstomp your *** in 5 seconds if you just dinged 50. Ive been playing him since the game came out. I don't complain when i switch to my combat medic or my shadow in recruit/bm gear that i cant just face roll everyone, I havent put the time in on them to earn that. Go vote for Obama maybe he'll tell you "they didn't build their toons" and give you a free set of WH.

 

 

That said I do think they need an arena system for small groups of 2-4, would make it much easier to get people into competetive pvp and much easier to group the bads with the bads and the pros with the pros so we don't have to listen to so much QQ.

 

lol, rated best of the best. LOL.

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Holy crap, man...cry some more please. You wouldnt take someone in PVE greens to do hardmode EC would you? NOPE. Its the same thing, rateds right now tend to be for the best of the best. Not the noobs. If you want to be on even par with someone who has spent a huge amount of time dedicated to playing as soon as you turn the computer on...then this isn't your game. Maybe you should try Call of Duty...or better yet the sims sounds more like your kind of game. Damn right my guardian will roflstomp your *** in 5 seconds if you just dinged 50. Ive been playing him since the game came out. I don't complain when i switch to my combat medic or my shadow in recruit/bm gear that i cant just face roll everyone, I havent put the time in on them to earn that. Go vote for Obama maybe he'll tell you "they didn't build their toons" and give you a free set of WH.

 

 

That said I do think they need an arena system for small groups of 2-4, would make it much easier to get people into competetive pvp and much easier to group the bads with the bads and the pros with the pros so we don't have to listen to so much QQ.

 

Thank you. 2nd best comment I have seen all day.

/signed Gerb

 

btw, first best comment.

 

The grind isn't hard, it's just boring as ****.

You know how many beers are required to get from 90-100? Lots-- and I didn't even like beer.

Now I put the sh*t in my cornflakes.

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Dumb **** that proves he doesn't live in the real world.

 

The other guy is right. Nobody cares what *you* like mate, a fairly large number of people thought it sucked and left. That's reality cupcake, and it affects how easy it is for new players to get into PvP. It also affects how bored us geared people are, 'cause paying $14/month to beat up on undergeared noobs isn't exactly what we planned, aye?

 

You think it's all about how wonderful you are 'cause you got some gear. We think it would have been better to keep all those people from leaving in the first place.

Edited by Eggsalicious
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Holy crap, man...cry some more please. .... so we don't have to listen to so much QQ.

 

That attitude of entitlement because youve played longer is exactly why rated queues are nearly dead. My Guardian is from early access and is fully geared, I have no reason to cry, as I could easily swap the gear to my Jugg if I wanted to.

 

No, my complaint and concern is that it is getting harder and harder for people to run rated teams, and even when you do run rateds, more than half of the time you are running into undergeared pug teams who are trying to quicken the gear grind (which is why "the best of the best" is a joke). This is not fun for anyone, or at least not for anyone who is out for competition and not a pointless rated number.

 

Imo, the devs should be looking at a system with free top tier pvp gear that is useless in pve (similar system to the recently release fantasy mmo that is going to have pvp tournaments with cash prizes). Ignore the minority of players like tbowen who cry about their "hard work" and get everyone on the same level so there can be competition. The rewards for the time commitment should be cosmetic armour skins (not just different colours), pets, speeders, titles, etc.

Edited by Kharnski
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OP, you are wrong. First off, you're equating gear grind to skill. One does not equal the other, one influences the other and vice versa.

 

Gear can play a big factor on performance, but it may not be due to skill

Skill can be a big factor on performance, but it may not be due to gear

(Team composition is important too)

 

You're in theory a whiner yourself for complaining about them.

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Valorous Call > Inpiration > Force Leap > Precision Strike > Master Strike > Blade Rush > Blade Storm

 

|

|

V

 

Dead recruit > Nerd Rage > QQ in Forums > ROFL L2P responses > Reroll to Vang/PT

 

nough said /thread

Edited by jstergar
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So you play one game in the best damage tree in the game, lose while dying 11 times and tell people to stop whining?

 

Recruit gear is bad. I have a full aug WH Guardian with both damage and tank sets of gear fully modded out properly. I have a new 50 Juggernaut in recruit gear that has WH Lightsaber and Offhand from levels 40-50. The difference is night and day. I easily die 10+ times a game, get killed within a 4 second stun and I'm afraid to guard people because I will die in seconds if that person gets hit by anything dangerous (ie. smash, pyros).

 

I am the primary target of enemy dps the second they realize Im in recruit, as Im essentially a free kill. On the Guardian I am the last target, because it is a huge time commitment to try to bring it down.

 

Posting a single screenshot of a single game is a joke. Under the right circumstances you can put up great numbers. I put up 200k damage and 300k protection in recruit yesterday because the other team didnt have enough damage to kill people through our fully geared healers. If the other team had a few decent players however, I wouldve been toast.

 

The fact is you would never bring a full recruit player to a rated warzone, and that should speak for the issue. Even full BM isnt good enough. I dont understand the logic of the gear grind in this game. It is a barrier to (re-)entry in this game for unsubbed players, and as a subbed player with more time than the average player, it is a still an unfun bore. It is also a barrier to entry for rated warzones (probably why theyre so unpopular) because you need the right 8 man composition and you need everyone fully geared. Not an easy thing to have, at least not consistently.

 

^ This,,.,all of this.

 

If you really want to be a masochist, try rolling up a new Sorc and enter your first 50 WZ, lol.

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lol, rated best of the best. LOL.

 

Ok, I agree only if you are not going into Pug PvP and laughing because you are doing the same thing and doing the 12 yr old L2P when it is the gear difference. Ranked WZ that group people based on gear will be a huge help. From what I have experienced to do this is the order that decides who is going to win 1. Gear, 2. Communication, 3. Heals, and for some part I may have to put Communication over Gear because I have seen teams who obviously were all one group in Pug PvP (ie they are all one Guild or they are coordinating so well they have to be talking in Vent manage to overcome both the gear and heals deficit.

 

But I will drop especially Huttball if I come into a group where most of them are fresh gear. I have been handed my head too many times where I am working very hard just to get my three medals because I get marked and decimated because I am the one toon who is taking out healers and ball carriers (in that order). Frankly it isnt worth the amount of frustration which isnt fair to the group that I dropped but I have had full War Hero toons drop when they see a group of partial War Hero toons so it happens. Plus being a dps sage for my main PvP toon I take a world of second guessers already, inspite of the fact I can and do turn in 300K to 400K games with 70K + healing efforts. Most WZ Pugs that is enough to put me at the top of the list, I can wind up less if I wind up the primary focus especially by a couple of stealth.

 

So yes PvP is broken until they figure out a way to fix the Pug Teams to equalize based on gear so it really is skill that determines it, although they need to fix the mixing guild groups with Pugs as well. Heals, you either have them or you dont, ugly as all get out if you dont or if you wind up with a group who will not keep dps off of the healers. Then again I am one of those dps that loves to get all over healers so maybe I shouldnt say too much.

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Only Incentive in this game to stay on the 4 WZ treadmill is gear... Im on a huge Server and the entire population stands on fleet all day waiting for PvP or PvE queues to pop while crafting and selling on the GTN.

 

Might as well not have all those planets....Its all wasted once people hit 50 with no reason to ever go back.

 

Placing all those vendors only on the fleets was a bad idea.

 

Im leveling up a 3rd toon to 50 now and dont expect to stay in recruit gear for more then a week...So it may be horrible for a bit, but not long.

Edited by Soljin
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OP, you are wrong. First off, you're equating gear grind to skill. One does not equal the other, one influences the other and vice versa.

 

Gear can play a big factor on performance, but it may not be due to skill

Skill can be a big factor on performance, but it may not be due to gear

(Team composition is important too)

 

You're in theory a whiner yourself for complaining about them.

 

You're agreeing with me. So, this is confusing.

 

This post was in reply to all the people who get stomped by either:

 

A.) Better players

B.) More coordinated teams

C.) Better geared players

D.) Possibly cheaters?

 

and disproportionately declare that it's because of C). What I'm saying is that sometimes some people are just better at a certain game than some other people, whether it's due to natural talent or due to practiced skill. So, I think the gear grind is WAY less an issue than people make it out to be, and in reality, people tend to do better when they're War Hero geared because they've played their class more by then.

 

Also, in response to the dude who brought up me dying 11 times: did you even look at the rest of the scoreboard? Eleven deaths was about average for my team, mostly because we only had one healer who did 245k healing. I took 240k damage - how many times did you want me to die taking that much damage without much healing?

 

And anyone who brought up rateds is crazy - the reply about how you wouldn't bring a fresh 50 a Nightmare level raid (unless you could completely carry him) is exactly right.

 

Edit: What I'm trying to say is this: no matter how good your gear is, someone will be able to stomp you in a 1v1 or some team will be able to destroy you in a WZ. Constantly attributing this fact to things out of your control (length of time to grind gear, class balance, etc) is a good way to ensure that you never get better as a player. I think we'd all be better off if we discussed productive things like "What's the best strategy to keep a Marauder off of my Commando?" instead of just yelling, "I only lost because he's got fully augmented war hero and his class is overpowered!"

Edited by rob_y
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So you play one game in the best damage tree in the game, lose while dying 11 times and tell people to stop whining?

 

Recruit gear is bad. I have a full aug WH Guardian with both damage and tank sets of gear fully modded out properly. I have a new 50 Juggernaut in recruit gear that has WH Lightsaber and Offhand from levels 40-50. The difference is night and day. I easily die 10+ times a game, get killed within a 4 second stun and I'm afraid to guard people because I will die in seconds if that person gets hit by anything dangerous (ie. smash, pyros).

 

I am the primary target of enemy dps the second they realize Im in recruit, as Im essentially a free kill. On the Guardian I am the last target, because it is a huge time commitment to try to bring it down.

 

Posting a single screenshot of a single game is a joke. Under the right circumstances you can put up great numbers. I put up 200k damage and 300k protection in recruit yesterday because the other team didnt have enough damage to kill people through our fully geared healers. If the other team had a few decent players however, I wouldve been toast.

 

The fact is you would never bring a full recruit player to a rated warzone, and that should speak for the issue. Even full BM isnt good enough. I dont understand the logic of the gear grind in this game. It is a barrier to (re-)entry in this game for unsubbed players, and as a subbed player with more time than the average player, it is a still an unfun bore. It is also a barrier to entry for rated warzones (probably why theyre so unpopular) because you need the right 8 man composition and you need everyone fully geared. Not an easy thing to have, at least not consistently.

 

i cannot believe this stupid comment lol ... recruit in rated hahaha ... gl and work hard with your brain pls...

 

gl :))

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i cannot believe this stupid comment lol ... recruit in rated hahaha ... gl and work hard with your brain pls...

 

gl :))

 

What exactly were you refering to? The post you quoted said exactly the contrary of what you laugh about, that is that no one takes recruit players in rated. What was this with the brain?

 

To the thread starter: Did you notice in your 1st 50 wz that your opponent group had about 1.2 million heals? Of course you can make 400k damage then. Please post some more screenshots of wzs in which you hit 400k in recruit against a group without heavy heals. Thanks.

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What exactly were you refering to? The post you quoted said exactly the contrary of what you laugh about, that is that no one takes recruit players in rated. What was this with the brain?

 

To the thread starter: Did you notice in your 1st 50 wz that your opponent group had about 1.2 million heals? Of course you can make 400k damage then. Please post some more screenshots of wzs in which you hit 400k in recruit against a group without heavy heals. Thanks.

 

Ok - I only played two level 50 WZs on him so far. I will post more as they happen. The only reason I didn't also post the first warzone was because the screenshot didn't take (does anyone else have this problem or does it just plague me and some of my guildmates?).

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You're agreeing with me. So, this is confusing.

 

Read my post carefully, I'm calling you an outlier, you're average skilled, and ungeared. I don't know the conditions of your voidstar, or how you attain those numbers (very conditional; aoe perhaps) so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But your skill alone leaves wanting, the point of my post is you need both. Because you are lacking gear your performance suffers. If you have a larger data pool of say 40 games, in your current gear. Please show us. Although topping charts and numbers means nothing if you let the sorc heal hit up to 600k. That fault lies on both you and your team. If he was harassed, his numbers wouldn't be that high.

 

I'll temper my statement by saying, your stats do make me raise an eyebrow.

Edited by Yiffinator
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The focus of this thread is DPS in recruit which isn't the real problem. The real problem of recruit gear is survivability.

 

The TTK vs stats ratios between recruit and WH is just way way off.

Edited by jstergar
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If you only have 1 "main" then the grind can be daunting, but for the most part everyone else had to do it. That said there's no reason to not hit 50 with 3500rwz/2000wz comms.

 

If it's an alt, then there's no reason to hit 50 with at least 2 pieces of WH and 3500/2000 comms. But really most people should have 5/5 WH + legacy belt/bracers when they hit 50.

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how you attain those numbers (very conditional; aoe perhaps ... if you let the sorc heal hit up to 600k.

 

On my phone, so I apologize for brevity. The only aoe in an Assault commando's regular rotation is sticky grenade. Maybe some other aoes for node denial. As for the Sorc healer - 600k isn't that big of a heal number, but for what its worth - this was a solo queued pug, so we had no coordination.

 

Also, the point of the post isn't about my skill - it's about the fact that it's possible to output performance (objectives, numbers, etc) keeping up with the rest of a random warzone while in fresh 50 gear.

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