I had to stop pvping for nearly 5 weeks because of major lag issues and I’ve just started again this weekend.

After not playing pvp for 5 weeks and then coming back, the drop in player skill is really noticeable. I honestly didn’t think it could get any worse, but it has.

Some examples (not all on my teams)

7 mindless minions chasing 1 guys all over the map and can’t kill him. This happens about 50% of the time.

7 guys guarding Hypergates against 2 guys and they lose it while I’m holding the other against 6.

7 wack a moles trying to kill the only guy not involved in trying to score in Hutt Ball (all maps, not just Vandin), while I’m chasing 7 guys to try and stop them scoring or trying to score by myself, but always blow up because I’ve no one to pass too.

3 Fury Mara’s trying to kill my Rage Jugg and I solo 3 all of them and cap (and I’m not “that” good to be able to do that).

Players literally standing next to the Hutt Ball when it respawns and don’t pick it up. No enemies and I had to run from the goal line to get it.

Stealth not using stealth abilities at all at in arena matches.

Same Hutt Ball carrier keeps running the pit 4-5 times in a row in Vandin with no one at the goal line to receive it and blows up or gets killed. All the while he could have gone up or passed to me multiple times. (No I couldn’t go wait on the line as they had 2 sins there to defend).

The list goes on and on. Each match I wondered if they can get any worse and undoubtedly they do.

I know you can say this is normal and has happened before. But not in nearly every match and not to this absolute lack of skill or understanding.

They can’t even death match when they decide to do that instead of trying to win. 7v1 or 7v2 and they can’t kill someone. Most can’t even get 500k in a match.

Honeslty, I’ve been getting more of a challenge running veteran chapters the last 5 weeks. At least the mobs know how to fight.

The skill lvl is so bad that the skill gaps between someone who can play and someone who is filling a team spot is massive.

I was worried about a gear gap and bolster not being high enough. Now I’m more worried about the skill gaps on my teams or in matches.

The only matches I’ve had that were tough were the 5 double premades in a row against full pug baddies. Other than those 5, there was no challenge at all.

There is nearly no reason to keep pvping in this game,

Felt that way for me on SS, but SF is a little better. All in all, many PvPers seemed to have moved on and the percapita 118k clueless players has definitely increased.

Yeah, SF doesn’t seem as totally clueless as SS. Both are still bad, one is just worse.

I think the new meta is that objectives arent cool anymore. Getting big numbers and kills is it. Except it isn't, because you lose the match. /shrug

The only thing I dislike more than losing is dying a significant number of times.

Some pure objective players irritate me more than death matchers when they fail to stop the farm in favor of pretending they won at the end of the match.

The only thing I dislike more than losing is dying a significant number of times.

 

Some pure objective players irritate me more than death matchers when they fail to stop the farm in favor of pretending they won at the end of the match.

Who are these "pure objective players"? I have never seen someone too fixated on guarding a node that he doesn't fight those who approach it (after CCing from stealth and calling incs is out of the option, of course). I have never seen someone so fixated on killing the ball carrier that he doesn't attack him, or a ball carrier so fixated on delivering the ball that he doesn't use damaging abilities on the people constantly pounding him if his mobility/healing/stuns are on CD (unless he is melee and they are out of his range). To top it all I have never seen a group getting farmed to hell and still beat the objectives, and it shouldn't be possible unless the other team is so narrow visioned that none of them even bothers to click the node while all enemies are dead.

There are no "pure" objective players. There are only the players who will give up a few offensive cooldowns in order to run to a far node, cast a cap on a node, interrupt a cap on a node, or standing stealthy and call incs when it means victory even as it means lower numbers, and those who won't.

The only thing I dislike more than losing is dying a significant number of times.

 

Some pure objective players irritate me more than death matchers when they fail to stop the farm in favor of pretending they won at the end of the match.

What do you mean by that. Can you clarify because it doesn’t make sense to me.

Who are these "pure objective players"? I have never seen someone too fixated on guarding a node that he doesn't fight those who approach it (after CCing from stealth and calling incs is out of the option, of course). I have never seen someone so fixated on killing the ball carrier that he doesn't attack him, or a ball carrier so fixated on delivering the ball that he doesn't use damaging abilities on the people constantly pounding him if his mobility/healing/stuns are on CD (unless he is melee and they are out of his range). To top it all I have never seen a group getting farmed to hell and still beat the objectives, and it shouldn't be possible unless the other team is so narrow visioned that none of them even bothers to click the node while all enemies are dead.

 

There are no "pure" objective players. There are only the players who will give up a few offensive cooldowns in order to run to a far node, cast a cap on a node, interrupt a cap on a node, or standing stealthy and call incs when it means victory even as it means lower numbers, and those who won't.

You haven’t seen it all yet mate.

Three people defending pylon cuz objectives matter, tank and healer running off node getting stalled for 5 mins by 1 open and rest of team dies in mid, healer spam capping all game instead of healing ( there is couple of them that I see quite often) and so on.

It’s as ridiculous as 4v1 kills heroes ...

You haven’t seen it all yet mate.

Three people defending pylon cuz objectives matter, tank and healer running off node getting stalled for 5 mins by 1 open and rest of team dies in mid, healer spam capping all game instead of healing ( there is couple of them that I see quite often) and so on.

It’s as ridiculous as 4v1 kills heroes ...

I know such bad players exist but they are not the "pure objective players" as opposed to "pure number farmers", they are simply bad players who care about objective but go about them in a very stupid way. The problem is not in the fact that they are objective oriented, it is in the fact they have no idea how to do it properly. A synonym for these guys in the "number farming" department would be people who burst a mara through his 99% DR because they are too stupid to realize that taking a sec to swap target (or in the lack of another target, basic attack or self-heal until it is over to save actual attacks for when they hurt) will increase their output.

By the way, about the 3 pylon defenders, I am pretty sure this is an excuse to give up the game while being immune to kicks due to defender ticks. This is not objective gameplay. Nobody ever said the only way to be useless for the team is by farming the numbers of damage and healing. Farming objective score is not always objective gameplay. The sorc who pulls the ball carrier usually doesn't get any score for it, but he is by far more objective than a guy who picks the ball from the stand and destroys it on the ground repeatedly or those who stealth out with a hypergate orb just to pick the one next to it.

I think the new meta is that objectives arent cool anymore. Getting big numbers and kills is it. Except it isn't, because you lose the match. /shrug

7 years of doing the same objectives some people decide to focus on those 50 kills 20 killingblows achievments.

and i think in 80% of those matches those who farm kills and are able to do these amounts of kills will win the match too.

gsf has a deathmatch mode...i'm suprised that regs dont have it.

7 years of doing the same objectives some people decide to focus on those 50 kills 20 killingblows achievments.

 

and i think in 80% of those matches those who farm kills and are able to do these amounts of kills will win the match too.

 

gsf has a deathmatch mode...i'm suprised that regs dont have it.

I agree....

I am here since mid 3.0, started to seriously PVP in around 4.0 and in my view playing objectives is for begginers....

If I can kill people 1v1 easily and get high numbers I am more useful for the the team doing that. After playing a lot... of games objectives are just frickin* boring and I need other things to challenge myself. Of course I call in case I am accidentally left guarding in things like that.

And to comment on the OP's topic. Sadly regs is just a comedy of what it was around 3.0 -4.0. If I remember correctly reg games were much more competitive back then. Nowdays ? Well... the token noobs have invaded level 70 PVP. Before, you had to play low level pvp and by the time you reached level 65 you actually had a clue about what to do. I see a lof of people running around headless chicken and instant dying. I see people dying faster than me, while the dude is actually focusing me and not him. I see people in Odessen who use red on their own node., death match like **** in the tunnels. capping the node in alderaan and leaving it unguarded, I see marauders with single weapons and tank gear.

Unranked arenas are much more terrible. Focus THAT target and NObody focuses it... People in die in less than 3 seconds, they lack initiative to charge.. they cower behind and wait to get globaled.

Well.. 5.0 has been about farming gear / mats and that is reflected in the quality of PVP overall. Also, the fact that there are less people playing doesn't help either.

7 years of doing the same objectives some people decide to focus on those 50 kills 20 killingblows achievments.

 

and i think in 80% of those matches those who farm kills and are able to do these amounts of kills will win the match too.

 

gsf has a deathmatch mode...i'm suprised that regs dont have it.

Ground, as opposed to GSF, has the ability to choose to exclusively go for deathmatches. It is called ranked. The fact that people there go to greater lengths to cheat to win and have a higher chance to have some level of god syndrome is a separate problem.

But in case people here want a deathmatch in the form of "kills give points, get X points to win" like many games and GSF does, well to be honest, MMORPG isn't suited for this game mode. GSF has it because like in the other games that have it, GSF is point and shoot. The healing in multiplayer games that involve this mode is either non-existent, have long cooldowns or are totally ineffective when under attack, because whether you die or survive an attack is up to your skill of avoiding shots versus the skill of your enemies to land their shots. In the ground form of most MMORPG, however, no amount of skill can let you avoid more than 10% of the enemy damage, and survival or death become a completely different struggle of executing damaging/healing rotation and interrupting such rotations in critical timings.

It might work in arenas where the groups are small and managing to burst someone off will kick him down forever so the battle can progress somewhere, but if they made an 8v8 deathmatch in the same form that they have in GSF or in any shooter game, people will just all stack in the same place and execute as much AOE stuns/damage/heal/taunt/defense when possible with the just a few single target abilities when they are out of AOEs (because when it is hitting x8 targets, the grand majority of AOEs are worth it numberwise more than any rotation), and as soon as one somehow miraculously dies he will just run back so there would be no progress. If somehow a group was unlucky enough to be cleared out once, the smart thing to do would be for all spawners to wait for the last one to respawn in order to regroup (and not become one-by-one-spawn-feeders).

So imagine a deathmatch mode of 8v8 where you only need 20 kills to win. Now imagine each group has two healers, two tanks and 4 DPS, and all 4 dps are mercs, operatives or snipers.

You DON'T want a deathmatch mode in any MMORPG (or any game with "target and roll the dice" mechanics), especially not in this one where survivability is sky high...

P.S I really don't get why do the people who have grown tired of the objective PVP "enjoy" farming numbers on the ground. Those who get bored of objectives because they are always the same should get this boredom long after they get bored of repeating the same rotation with only a few iterations as stunning and chasing targets and avoiding stuns and chases. In almost any way to look at it, combat in MMORPG "dice roll" games is as repetitive as it gets in video games (ok, one level above Pokemon games, because you don't HAVE to wait for the other guy to execute his move while you execute yours, but it usually happens so that for each ability of yours, the enemy uses an ability, stuns excluded but Pokemons can stun too...). People who get bored so fast need to go for shooter games, such as GSF in this game.

It is truly funny how most people give up on GSF after 5-10 games because they do badly and then go to ground PVP, deathmatch as best as they with their 1000+ matches' worth of experience can, and then they scold others who are less experienced than them for performing less good (while they gave up on the game in which they were noobs without attempting to improve and despite the fact that nearly no good pilot is toxic toward newbies), AND saying that they are bored of all game modes so they play their own game on the existing modes, which is unintended gameplay rather than play the brand new game mode (for them), which involves just what they want, with the one and only downside being that they aren't already over experienced compared to others, so they would have to work if they wish to show off...

I agree....

 

I am here since mid 3.0, started to seriously PVP in around 4.0 and in my view playing objectives is for begginers....

 

If I can kill people 1v1 easily and get high numbers I am more useful for the the team doing that. After playing a lot... of games objectives are just frickin* boring and I need other things to challenge myself. Of course I call in case I am accidentally left guarding in things like that.

According to what you are saying you ARE playing the objective. You just aren't the one who goes for guarding, sapcapping or ball carrying, and this is totally fine because if everybody in the team did that, nobody would be doing the "grunt" work which is to keep the main force of the enemy too busy to do the same things. Every match needs the 5-6 people who constantly fight in the middle turret (for huttball's ballspawn maybe a little less players) and only the rest need to guard the node or attempt to snatch the other one. Up to here, most teams do that quite fine.

A team is considered a team of deathmatches only if:

1. NOBODY occupies the offnode. I am not speaking about sapcapping the enemy, I am talking about grabbing the one you are supposed to and guard it.

2. When the offnode is in danger, NOBODY responds (we can't have everybody or even merely too many players responding, we will lose mid, but we need SOMEONE in order not to lose the side. Usually, a total of two DPS and one support can hold an offnode against any common attack. Any larger attack and your main force will take mid anyway)

3. No eyes on the node or letting yourselves get lured of the node by the main force (if you get lured by 1 or 2 players this is already dumbness and noobness, a problem for sure, but not the objective vs deathmatch conflict).

Thus a player can be determined as a deathmatcher only if he goes against number 3. Number 1 and 2 are too collective, so placing the tag "deathmatcher" according to them is very situational and there will never be a "formula" for that. For example: you aren't a deathmatcher if you are nearly killing a healer as the offnode calls and the guys in the respawn are too tunnel visioned to go there, they are. If you kill the healer you might turn the tide on mid, which is an objective victory, while they could contribute far better by saving the offnode. Also, nobody is a deathmatcher if everyone is either locked in the spawn area or very crucial to not losing mid and thus nobody responds for the call. There are cases where there is nothing to do.

In short: preferring to deal damage than guarding the offnode or carrying the ball is fine. The only problem is when one knowingly throws the match for the sake of seeing a higher number in the "defeat" chart...

healer spam capping all game instead of healing

Not sure how literally you mean this, but one of my chars is healer, and if the rest of the team is derping around deathmatching instead of capping (especially in Novare Coast), then of course I will cap in those situations instead of healing them, if otherwise it's a guaranteed loss.

I am here since mid 3.0, started to seriously PVP in around 4.0 and in my view playing objectives is for begginers....

Back in ranked wz days there were some great skillful objective plays requiring thought, practice and coordination. That nowadays 90+ % of pvpers don't seem to have a clue on how to do objectives I think rather implies objectives are not for beginners. When players know the game, it can make for amazingly fun and challenging matches.

If I can kill people 1v1 easily and get high numbers I am more useful for the the team doing that. After playing a lot... of games objectives are just frickin* boring and I need other things to challenge myself. Of course I call in case I am accidentally left guarding in things like that.

You say objectives are boring, but if you strive to help the team win a wz, then you do objectives. I for one find mindless fighting incredibly boring compared to smart objective play. Killing the enemy in a strategical place/time is doing objectives. Leaving a node because one would rather fight a random fight in the middle of nowhere is not doing objectives.

Not sure how literally you mean this, but one of my chars is healer, and if the rest of the team is derping around deathmatching instead of capping (especially in Novare Coast), then of course I will cap in those situations instead of healing them, if otherwise it's a guaranteed loss.

 

Quite literally, like spam capping Civil War with 6 enemies there, while team dies cuz no healing... Same in Novarre or Voidstar or whatever. Its mad. Spam capping is bad as it is let alone by a healer getting Aoe to death

 

Anyway I like to win and will do my best normally but whats happening lately its not really playing to win. Making bad decisions, being brain washed by this forum adn/or general missconceptions about objective gameplay is prelevant.

Also using objectives as excuse to playing poorly is common. I can only see few People who play to win/objectively and know what to do, rest seem to be bunch of loud cry babies who think that dieing at enemy node 8 times a match or running around like headless chickens is objective play.

 

Anyway rant over, let them be clueless forever. Same with skank tanking and premades and other tragedies on the forums xD

I always find it laughable when I see 4 guys spam capping and I’m there using force storm on them the whole time.

Seriously, It’s a face palm moment when you’re defending.

When you are attacking and I’m capping and I see enemy coming and instead of my team zerging to intercept and stop them getting to me, my team thinks they should help spam cap (not Nova, I mean VS, CW &Yavin). Then the enemy rocks up and interrupts us all. The most annoying is Void Star because so many times I only needed half a second and I’d have had it.

I’m sure in Nova a spam cap is ok under certain conditions. But there are smarter ways to cap it by using CCs. Slows, stuns, mez or even kill the attackers fast. I’ve literally held up 4 spam cappers at nova while my team all respawns and makes it back all because 4 think it’s a good idea to spam while one guy is trying to stop me interrupting them. It would be better to have 4 on me and one try and cap.

Theses examples aren’t rare or random, they are nearly every match. The amount of times I hear someone tell people in Void Star to all rush one side and spam cap is amazing. What’s even more amazing is nearly the whole team does it for 3/4s or the round while snipers and Sorcs AOE the **** out of them.

While spam caps may work in some maps, I believe it’s a flawed or lazy tactic that relies on the other team to be equally stupid. Spam capping promotes bad play and little ingenuity.

If it’s used too much, that is the tactic new people learn and it dumbs down pvp even more,

What makes me want to pull my hair out is when you have noobs in matches telling everyone that’s how you play and then yelling at people if they don’t do it.

I get abused at least once or twice a day because I use proper tatctics and strategy and I dont play follow the noob. Most of the time my tactics are the only thing that allows the spammers to cap because I’ve pulled half the enemy team to me. Then after I basically give us the win the noobs tell me L2P because they didn’t even understand what I did or the fact that I had 6 of the enemy distracted so they could spam cap. Some will even troll after the match ends.

What makes me want to pull my hair out is when you have noobs in matches.

As they sap all quality and fun from the game, you are going to be left with nothing but noobs in PVP.

I suspect if the new MMOs hit the market in the next year as planned this game will lose even more subs/players. They can't retain players now and there is nothing competing with swtor atm.

They can't retain players now and there is nothing competing with swtor atm.

I don't know much, but I'm pretty sure WoW for one is still a competition. I played WoW BfA for a bit, but I grew bored after a couple months.

I've also noticed more bad players lately, on DM. Both in amounts and in skill. Many matches it feels like playing with toddlers and trying in vain to teach them. Other matches are roflstomps. A lot of games are either frustrating or boring. I mean it's always been like that, but it just seems like the average player skill has dropped lately, and there is a higher percentage of noobs. (Games were better when we first got matchmaking.) Even some players I knew used to be good objective players have gone into complete deathmatching mode, willfully ignoring objectives. I don't understand the fun in that. If people wanna practice rotations they might as well go kill pve mobs or hit a training dummy?

I really think there should be another unranked queuing option, separate from wzs, normal arenas or the like, where these people could go practice or whatever they do. Or we could have ranked wzs back. Maybe some previous players would return for it. But there'd probably also be win trading...

I'm not noticing any decline in wz pops, so the population seems to be stable, but I don't know. I think some people will come back for 5.10 (some of my friends plan to), but I hope BW will improve the new gear system, lest these people leave again... What we need is a new hope.

what we need is a new meta. the reason everyone DMs is because they are all 248/300 and best augs they want and have been for a year. also no classes changes have happened in 2 and a half years. no one cares anymore and they wont till 6.0

Instead of forcing a new gear grind down everyone's throats they could have used the limited resources of dev work on class improvements or actual gameplay improvements.

They seem to think adding more gear grind will lengthen the playtime of players when in reality people only grow more tired and bored of grinding especially when the same classes have been OP'd for years and the same classes are useless and gimped in PVE/PVP.

I believe it to be a really poor use of the limited resources they have.