Why does it seem that the even though the Republic are the "Good Guys", They are complete jerks? Edited December 27, 2011 by Meluna
lanugage

There are no "good guys" or "bad guys" in Star Wars. Each 'side' has its own agenda and reasoning behind their goal.

 

Big picture-wise, if anyone would be 'bad', it would be the rebels. Their operation somewhat resembles terrorism.

Just like Obi Wan said "from a certain point of view"

Because not EVERYONE in the Republic are "good guys", just like not EVERYONE in the Empire are "bad guys". To me, it's like Lawful Evil/Chaotic Good. I've heard some say there can be on such thing as "Chaotic Good".

 

It is possible to have corrupt politicians(bending and manipulating the system to their will, for money or power), and moral outlaws(either for ideals that are not embraced by the powers-that-be, or because they are just tired of seeing the system walk over or ignore innocent cries for help).

Because they aren't the "good guys."

The Republic is represented as "good" because their government allows for at least the appearance of a democracy, or rule by the people.

 

The Empire, conversely, is ruled by one, which means that it can either be wholly good or wholly evil (this is true even if the chain of command branching beneath is intermingled with both corrupt and wholesome officials as all ultimately represent the head of state). In this case, it is rule by an Emperor wholly consumed by the Dark Side and hellbent on conquering and subduing all opponents.

 

The Empire, being ruled by the Sith, both in culture and in effect, will find it difficult to eliminate the connotation of "evil" as the Dark Side ultimately drives its practitioners into doing many actions that are, in essence, evil. Without the Sith, however, you have simply an autocracy, which is not necessarily an evil or even conquering force. (Ex. New Republic Era shows an alliance with the New Republic and the Imperial "Remnant" with a benevolent leader at its head)

 

Conclusion: Republic is "good" because it isn't an Empire ruled by an evil emperor.

Republic vs Empire is basically Democracy vs Communism. There are bad democrats just as there are good communists.

 

If you're looking for good and evil, look no further than Jedi and Sith. But do not make the presumption that all Empire are Sith, and all Republic are Jedi.

Republic vs Empire is basically Democracy vs Communism.

 

Not sure I would call the Empire a "communist' style government, it's seems a bit more along the lines of a Fascist government (two different things). If you wanted something more blanket-like, Totalitarian is probably a better term to use for the Empire.

Not sure I would call the Empire a "communist' style government, it's seems a bit more along the lines of a Fascist government (two different things). If you wanted something more blanket-like, Totalitarian is probably a better term to use for the Empire.

 

Agreed, The Empire does not even have the face-value of being for the people and equality. It is actually a Totalitarian, 'survival-of-the-fittest' style of government. Where as the Republic is Democracy and protect-the-weak.

 

The brilliance of Star Wars, and especially Old Republic era, is that neither system is shown as perfect. They are actually both shown as inherently flawed. With the Republic being run by corrupt politicians and the Empire being run by a small ruling class bent on enslaving the entire galaxy to their rule.

Actually.. the Empire itself is very hypocritical in the top layer (aka the Sith). They run a militaristic Empire where one must abide by the rules, while the Sith teachings actually teach one to make your own rules, make your own power. They created a system where their 'followers' are forced to live in a way that is not by their teachings.

 

Guess that partly explains the 'Rule of 2' that is later introduced in Sith teaching. There is no widespread breaking of their own code if there is only one Master and one Apprentice.

The rampant xenophobia and slavery in the Empire certainly doesn't help their case. Honestly some of their policies are outright retarded. Their intelligence agents are automatically executed if they fail a mission. A mission, any one, even after long decorated careers of being exceptional assets. I mean, is there any other system that actively ENCOURAGES the defection of the people you least want defecting better than that?

To me, it's like Lawful Evil/Chaotic Good. I've heard some say there can be on such thing as "Chaotic Good".

 

Very well put.

 

As someone once said, "There are no good or bad governments, only good and bad leaders."

 

The problem with the Republic was corrupt, apathetic, bribe-taking senators.

The problem with the Empire was Palpatine.

 

Either system of government was perfectly capable of creating a perfectly decent society if not for the people in charge of them.

 

There is a lot of good books covering the lore of what happens after the movie trilogy, and they explore & identify these issues in great detail. Within the Republic, the Mon Calamari & Quarrens start shooting at each other again, along with numerous old rivalries against turning into open conflict - the unfortunate side effect of their new found "freedoms" being abused. Likewise, with the Sith element removed from the remnants of the Empire, they too undergo a (slow) change for the better and many people turn to their iron-fisted methods as a reasonable solution to solving things like rampant crime & civil wars.

 

In the end, both the Republic & the Empire could stand to learn a lot from each other. Eventually, I suspect, they would become nearly identical to each other.

 

See also "Hegelian Dialetic"

Easy. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsNotNice

Because even with 'good intentions', they're still Statist, and therefore cannot, by defintion, be 'Good'. Capitalist Anarchy is the only 'good' society. Government, by its very definition, can only coerce and steal.

 

Smugglers for the win =)

This is the first game where one side is evil and the developers go to great lengths to show it and the other side is more 'grey'. The Republic is comparable to many first world nations today. They are corrupt as all get out, but they still have a grey ideal of liberty and rights.

 

The Empire on the other hand is EVIL through and through. They conquer, they destroy, they consume. They commit genocide on large scales and are led by egotistical maniacs. There is also a racist undertone to them.

 

So neither side is really good, but the Republic is definitely closer to what 'good' could be called.

Edited December 28, 2011 by gordthepuritan

This is the first game where one side is evil and the developers go to great lengths to show it and the other side is more 'grey'. The Republic is comparable to many first world nations today. They are corrupt as all get out, but they still have a grey ideal of liberty and rights.

 

The Empire on the other hand is EVIL through and through. They conquer, they destroy, they consume. They commit genocide on large scales and are led by egotistical maniacs. There is also a racist undertone to them.

 

So neither side is really good, but the Republic is definitely closer to what 'good' could be called.

 

the empire itself as it is at this point is evil. but an empire itself isnt. the empire could be changed, as is what a lightside warrior or inquisitor is attempting to do(or to an extent some of the ls agent endings). the republic itself is not evil, though many running are pretty much evil. the republic could be changed to be evil, though it would be slightly more difficult. there are many individuals in both who are or arent evil.

 

i personally like playing lightside on all my characters empire or republic. however, it kind of feels more rewarding, as playing a lightside sith, if someone really pisses you off you dont feel like your gonna get chastised for killing them. in fact people will probably like you more if you do.

 

someone mentioned the D&D alignments in an earlier post, and that is exactly how i view sith vs jedi, if not republic vs empire. sith are more chaotic, which tends to be closer to evil, though is not necessarily evil. the jedi tend to be highly lawful, which is often closer to "good" but as shown in say the sith warrior story, not all jedi are good.

 

Personally, i love playing my chaotic good sith warrior who uses his emotions to strengthen him(including compassion and love), and doesnt go around killing people, tries to spare his enemies if he has no big reason not to, but if they really piss him off, then he has no quarrels with killing them either, though it takes quite a bit of provocation.

The brilliance of Star Wars, and especially Old Republic era, is that neither system is shown as perfect. They are actually both shown as inherently flawed.

Same with Jedi/Sith code in general. Both are opposite extremes, with many flaws.

 

The way I look at the Republic Vs the Empire is that they're about the same- only the empire doesn't hide their "evil" points. Usually.

Congrats, you brought a thread from before launch back from the dead.

Congrats, you brought a thread from before launch back from the dead.

 

Truely, powerful with the force is this one.

Congrats, you brought a thread from before launch back from the dead.

 

ARISE! ARISE!

 

but does it seriously matter? its one thing to do it with discussions about say pvp balance. its another to do it with just a sort of lore debate, respark it up.

 

oh, and i am proud to say, that i have necroed many threads abotu such things as pvp balance. MWAHAHAHA

The Sith are always stating that the Jedi are untrustworthy hypocritical liars. As representatives of the Republic it certainly doesn't boast well for the Republic being the 'good guys'. The Sith are no better though

 

There are no 'good guys' in this setting