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WHY did Bioware nerf the companions so much?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
WHY did Bioware nerf the companions so much?

RPMSKMC's Avatar


RPMSKMC
11.18.2019 , 06:34 PM | #171
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
Depending on how you phrase the interrogative, yes.

Pre-6.0, all FPs and Ops were leveled up. That is no longer the case.

I think people are having a difficult time with some of the pre-6.0 heroics / FPs because it is leveled down. In reality, there is a stat cap.

Personally, I find it annoying that gear I acquire at Level 75 which helps me on the new content is not BiS for gear that BW created prior to 6.0.

Dasty
Dasty is so very close to nailing things from my experience. Most if not all of the people i see saying everything is fine are saying this "I ran X content on my DPS with companion set on heals and never died once nor used any of my dcd's, things are perfect". This right here is your first problem. Grab a healer and run your companion in DPS in various content and i suspect your opinion will change quickly.

INCOMING WALL OF TEXT

Pre 5.10 content is vastly different than post 5.10 content in regards to how things are scaled and how things perform. If you go to Onderon and compare your stats and your companions you see that even a rank 50 is equal to you in roughly 276 gear in just health alone. Now go to the capital planet and what do you see, that their health is almost 3X yours but their damage is roughly equal to the planets starting level in green gear. And here is where the problems start.

On the capital world you will have roughly 2500 hp and your comp 8-9k hp. Now your big heals will heal 250 to 350 hp without crits. Now to restore them from half health will take you 10-14 heals while you can heal yourself in 1-3 heals. Now two things come into play here first by ratio silvers hit really hard compared to gold and champions, second many heroic mobs have multiple silvers. So due to these factors you have to constantly be healing your companion. Because you are healing so much coupled with the companions low dps output you start pulling aggro off them. Now you have to heal your companion, yourself, and kill the enemies attacking you all at the same time. This is equal roughly to healing a MM flashpoint boss fight with adds with everybody standing in the stupid and not killing the adds. Now add in lag, ability lag and interrupts and you start pushing the limits of a good player.

The higher the planet level the less this ratio imbalance becomes but even at Yavin 4 your companion still has around 50% more hp than yourself. Now back to Onderon where you have 50-70k hp more than your companion. Now your companion is doing lvl 75 damage with green gear at rank 50 affection so they are taking a boat load of damage while taking a while to kill anything over grey trash level.

So in "short" there are three issues combining into this one problem.
#1 The change to level sync lowered your stats including your damage reduction to the lower end of the planets level. Because of this you can now die on the capital world doing heroics instead of Hoth like it was in 4-5.0.
#2 The changes to companions stats and abilities. Much like #1 they can take damage now but their damage is equal to yours with 2-3X the health. Add to this that max rank companions went from being equal to BIS DPS players to starter gear players with half their abilities. This alone is like a 30-50% dps nerf. On top of all this we once again have highly imbalanced companions. My rank 50 Scorpio has 196k hp on Onderon while my rank 50 Shae has 221k hp
#3 The scaling done to the enemies. While this may not have actually changed the two above changes make it feel like everything has been made harder.

Now you can adapt by one of three ways.
#1 You can set your comp as a tank and accept that everything will take 40-50% longer.
#2 You can keep your comp as dps and restore your class resources and dcd's between fights making everything take 40-50% longer.
#3 You can just quit playing all content before Ossus because it takes to long, is boring and doesn't have a decent reward. (My guess is this is the BW goal)

Now what the devs should do to fix this is increase the dps of tank and dps spec in pre 5.0 content up by 30-40% to offset the aggro issue.
In level 75 content they should increase the stats to where a rank 50 companion is equal to a player in 294ish range gear in both health and damage. (I would rather it be 300, but 294 would be acceptable i think)

NogueiraA's Avatar


NogueiraA
11.18.2019 , 06:35 PM | #172
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
And remove the health stations in solo mode.

Why are you trying to take the fun from solo players? There are solo content and MMORPG nowadays shouldn't be about forcing ppl to group for a lot of content.
SOLO players asked for it here in this forum a couple months ago.
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Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
11.18.2019 , 06:37 PM | #173
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
Depending on how you phrase the interrogative, yes.

Pre-6.0, all FPs and Ops were leveled up. That is no longer the case.

I think people are having a difficult time with some of the pre-6.0 heroics / FPs because it is leveled down. In reality, there is a stat cap.

Personally, I find it annoying that gear I acquire at Level 75 which helps me on the new content is not BiS for gear that BW created prior to 6.0.

Dasty
I'm inclined to agree. Mobs below should be boosted up to meet us, not the other way around. I know this isn't necessarily feasible in open world, but it should be plenty feasible in instances. And that's where some of the harder heroic encounters are anyway. I would think that (generally speaking) from a balancing standpoint, it'd be far easier to balance for mobs meeting us at our expected power cap, than trying to weaken us to an arbitrary level of pathetic to make us match where the mobs are at and rendering our RPG progress pointless in the process.
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AndasKastor's Avatar


AndasKastor
11.18.2019 , 07:39 PM | #174
Gosh, I never realized I was an elite player. Since a couple of months before 6.0 was released I have been playing on the English European server (I am in the Midwest USA). This is a new server so I didn't have an existing legacy. I have 2 characters that have completed Chapter 1 and another that is almost done with Chapter 1.

I also have a level 75 character on the east coast US server that I play with my wife. Currently we are on Rishi as we play through the game in order. We never have companions out - our biggest annoyance is dismissing them after every cut scene.

I have not really noticed much of a difference with companions since 6.0 dropped, but I never use them for healing. I find that DPS and tank works better depending on the character I am running. The game is still very easy although it was challenging doing the Alderon heroics starting at level 28 with a stealth operative (mob level was 33).

I didn't think there could be a more casual player than I, but from reading this entire thread I am obviously wrong.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
11.18.2019 , 09:22 PM | #175
Quote: Originally Posted by AndasKastor View Post
Gosh, I never realized I was an elite player. Since a couple of months before 6.0 was released I have been playing on the English European server (I am in the Midwest USA). This is a new server so I didn't have an existing legacy. I have 2 characters that have completed Chapter 1 and another that is almost done with Chapter 1.

I also have a level 75 character on the east coast US server that I play with my wife. Currently we are on Rishi as we play through the game in order. We never have companions out - our biggest annoyance is dismissing them after every cut scene.

I have not really noticed much of a difference with companions since 6.0 dropped, but I never use them for healing. I find that DPS and tank works better depending on the character I am running. The game is still very easy although it was challenging doing the Alderon heroics starting at level 28 with a stealth operative (mob level was 33).

I didn't think there could be a more casual player than I, but from reading this entire thread I am obviously wrong.
Uh, you said you play with your wife though... a lot of people play solo. Also, the differences can be subtle in my limited experience with the changes. You'll think it's all hunky dory and then it'll catch you off-guard on something you used to be ok in.

But honestly, casual is kind of a misnomer anyway. There's casual meaning hours put in and then there's casual meaning the mindset you have in how you play the game, and then there's your actual skill level. You can put few hours in and be highly skilled, you can have a casual mindset in how you play the game and be highly skilled, you can have a hardcore mindset in how you play the game and be mediocre at it, you can put in few hours and be low skilled. There's just so much more variation than the casual/elite or casual/hardcore dichotomy people like to do.

The bottom line is, some people are more skilled at the game than others. It's a spectrum. It may be you rank higher on the spectrum than you think you do. It's easy for people to have an inaccurate picture of how skilled they are and difficult to get an accurate one.
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Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
11.18.2019 , 11:25 PM | #176
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
SOLO players asked for it here in this forum a couple months ago.
I was one of them. To be honest, if the change in companion healing and the change in level sync weren't pointed out to me, I never would have noticed. I'm just not seeing much difference at all. Since I haven't done all of the heroics or all of the flashpoints since 6.0, I'm open to the idea that some have been affected more than others.
My name is Milind. I checked it again and can confirm you there is no bug with any companion in the game.

Batwer's Avatar


Batwer
11.18.2019 , 11:45 PM | #177
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
I was one of them. To be honest, if the change in companion healing and the change in level sync weren't pointed out to me, I never would have noticed. I'm just not seeing much difference at all. Since I haven't done all of the heroics or all of the flashpoints since 6.0, I'm open to the idea that some have been affected more than others.
There is hardly any difference. The Companions only heal you above a certain percentage. I think the healing skills take a few seconds longer. They are now beating around on a mob for a few seconds longer.

I also like to do it easy. If the difficulty is so high now that you die every 3 steps. Then I would not say anything, but that's ridiculous....
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sentientomega's Avatar


sentientomega
11.18.2019 , 11:59 PM | #178
You know you people could've just *not* used the kolto stations, right? Why demand their removal? Just don't use them, how hard could that be?
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SerraShar's Avatar


SerraShar
11.19.2019 , 01:30 AM | #179
I consider myself a solo player (Cose I play alone), but I haven't see a rise in difficulty. But then again, I do play as a Healer and make my comp Tank . and no, none of my companions are maxed in affinity (yeah like I'm gonna grind that **** , it aint fun BW!!!) .

I did start a new Alt , a JK with the droid companion and cleared all the heroic on Coruscant easy .

So dunno, did they change later planets heroic or something ?

I'm guilty of asking for upping the difficulty . BUT I never asked to change the heroic or FP . The only thing I ever wanted, was for the Boss (like baras, Thanaton..etc) be upped in difficulty...cose you could sneeze and they die , which didn't make it much fun..considering they are supposed to be the final boss of your personal story . Add to that, since they are in an Instance...I always though they could dunno..make it a choice like in KOTFTET chapter ?
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DreadtechSavant's Avatar


DreadtechSavant
11.19.2019 , 05:10 AM | #180
Quote: Originally Posted by NogueiraA View Post
SOLO players asked for it here in this forum a couple months ago.
Really? Solo players asked for it?

No a few players asked for it and dare say some would have been solo players, which some were solo others not. I'm a solo player did I ask for it? did the OP? Considering how few players actually post on these forums out of the entire player base your statement is just plain wrong. The OP is also right a player finding it to easy can do a lot to change that, a player can do little the other way round. Personally other than the odd FP boss such as the final boss in the Tython FP I'm not finding it hard but that's me, if other are it's an issue. If a player like Tsillah find it to easy and does not remove gear to get to a power level he finds enjoyable for him that's on him. No one else, he can do but choses not to. I also bet he's in maxed out gear with augments at a guess?

However as FP's are all instanced BW should just remove the nerf for Fp's. Any player can still remove gear if required or do the Master version if good enough to do so. Also all Fp's should now have all 3 versions, Story, Vet and Master as they are instance. There is little point in making a change to the game if that mean some players (yes it will only be a few) then just skip over large sections of the game. I know I now just skip the entire Reven preludes and Reven main story just because of that 1 boss on Tython. How is that good for the game?