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Any hope on the horizon for infiltration/deception?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Any hope on the horizon for infiltration/deception?

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
03.05.2018 , 01:30 PM | #1
I'll be honest. After playing for a month or so with the insults of the nerfs to us in 5.5 and 5.6, I checked out. I was out of PvP by December and pretty much out of game by January. Now we have a new year and such. I haven't been paying all that much attention of late to what's coming down the pike, but I did hear some changes are coming to deal with skanks in 5.8.

Is their class balance coming as well? Is it even on the radar? Is there hope that we might get some changes or unnerfed to the point where it's not an insult to run through WZ after WZ?

Or should I just use my commando, lol?

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
03.08.2018 , 12:32 PM | #2
Apparently a case where silence speaks volumes. It's disappointing, but what I suspected.

sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
03.09.2018 , 11:03 AM | #3
For PvE: seriously how long have you played this game?
For unranked PvP: Class seems fine to me.
For solo ranked PvP: I'll get back to you when enough people take solo ranked seriously.
For Group ranked PvP: I'll get back to you when more than 10 people play it.
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Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

Kirtastropohe's Avatar


Kirtastropohe
03.09.2018 , 11:12 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
For PvE: seriously how long have you played this game?
For unranked PvP: Class seems fine to me.
For solo ranked PvP: I'll get back to you when enough people take solo ranked seriously.
For Group ranked PvP: I'll get back to you when more than 10 people play it.
Played it since launch. As I've said in other threads, I'm not the best and I'm not the worst. What I have seen is a trend, over the years of the game's life, that has hurt the class, especially given the concept that it was supposed to be a glass cannon, very hard hitting but not very sturdy. It doesn't hit as hard, and the defenses of the other classes have been improved, as well as their ability to hit just as hard, and often much harder, than we do. Given the general brokenness of class balance, plus factoring in a skewing of the game to favor ranged, it's been less and less enjoyable, particularly since 5.0 and really 5.5/5.6...that was really what was the final insult.

sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
03.09.2018 , 11:40 AM | #5
It's the lifecycle of all MMOs. One day your class is on top, the next it is on the bottom.

The only trend I noticed, is that BW will NEVER let this class be really good for serious PvE in anything other than tanking. Either it is too weak, or other classes are too much better.

As for PvP, I found it pretty decent in regs. Nothing to complain about honestly. Would like the 30% stun DR and/or PW back, but w/e.

Solo ranked is filled with too many mats farmers and trolls to take seriously; collect your mats/comms and move on. I would personally do this, but due to my schedule I can't even get there at a time it pops on star forge.

And group ranked, unless you are kick balling or it gets a cxp bonus, it will never pop. And during the cxp bonus, it is once again just filled with farmers, no one really takes it seriously.

So which specific type of game mode did you have a complaint in? If it is NiM PvE, it is your fault because by now you should've known better than to expect dps sin to be competitive with other classes like merc/marauder/sniper. If it is regs, not sure what to tell you, doesn't seem bad to me. If it is solo ranked, get over it, it's not competitive and never will be. If it is group ranked, not sure what to tell you either, you are in such a small minority that you will never get attention, just play FoTM,
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

ShallowHal's Avatar


ShallowHal
03.22.2018 , 09:35 PM | #6
I've really been enjoying this class in unranked warzones. Now that I'm in mostly 248 gear, I'm hitting harder and winning more on on one fights. But what really brings this over the top for me is the tactical value of being able to use stuns and mezzes to steal nodes. I really love doing that, though many of the smarter players will keep two guards to prevent you from doing that. In PVE, you don't get to do that and so from a operations/HM point of view, infiltration/deception is not as good as other classes.

When I'm in a crowded fight (4 vs 4 or more), then I wish I was in a ranged class that could more easily track the one opponent I want to kill. I've seen assassin/shadows that are very good in a crowded combat situation take people down quickly and put up very good damage numbers, but that's not me yet. Usually I'll just bail out or switch to a less crowded node where I can be of more value.
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Exocor's Avatar


Exocor
03.23.2018 , 12:53 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
The only trend I noticed, is that BW will NEVER let this class be really good for serious PvE in anything other than tanking. Either it is too weak, or other classes are too much better.
Serious? I mean.... serious? The only encounter, where I would currently say, that Deception is not one of the best choices, is Brontes NiM. In all other encounters, Deception scores with superior survivability and burst damage, mediocre sustained damage and insanly good target switching. It's like AP-PT without range, better dcd's and no energy management. Even for Brontes NiM, Deception scores with mediocre DPS-potential and superior survivability in burn phase. It's probably not the easiest choice here, due to some abilitys, that are useful, but not as obvious as other classes abilities.
Decetion is probably not in the top 3 of all specs for PvE... but it's definitely in the upper third.
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sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
03.28.2018 , 01:21 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Exocor View Post
Serious? I mean.... serious? The only encounter, where I would currently say, that Deception is not one of the best choices, is Brontes NiM. In all other encounters, Deception scores with superior survivability and burst damage, mediocre sustained damage and insanly good target switching. It's like AP-PT without range, better dcd's and no energy management. Even for Brontes NiM, Deception scores with mediocre DPS-potential and superior survivability in burn phase. It's probably not the easiest choice here, due to some abilitys, that are useful, but not as obvious as other classes abilities.
Decetion is probably not in the top 3 of all specs for PvE... but it's definitely in the upper third.
So deception is not in the top 3, but it is in the upper third of an 8 possible contestants right? 3/8 is 2 if you round down, 3 if you round up. It's ok, I understand what you were trying to say.

The top 4 dps classes at this in time are operative, marauder, sniper and merc (in no specific order). They all have really high damage, group utility, a raid buff, no melee downtime (except marauder) and more than 1 choice of dps class for different circumstances. Any newly formed raid group would prefer these classes over deception anytime.

So how does it compare to the other 4 classes:
damage:
We can see here http://parsely.io/parser/stats that its actually beneath the jugg and PT but they are all very close. Unfortunately deception has the largest rng variable attached with it. So the odds of getting that max damage are much lower than other classes. Dummy parses don't really tell you much, but if you are a raid leader, who would you take just based on only this?

melee/ranged:
Deception is melee and has really nothing to throw during melee downtime. Jugg is exactly the same. PT (esp. AP) has somethings it an do during melee downtime, and sorc is fully ranged, and the higher parser is a DoT spec-but needs to fully cast force lightning to compensate.

group utility:
deception has none (no one takes that useless heal as it is useless). Jugg has intercede and the threatening scream sonic wall, neiither of which is that great. PT has sonic rebounder which only works on direct damage and the stealth scan speed buff, also neither of which is really great. Sorc has a raid buff, static shield, off heals, extrication and revival (in case healers are too busy).

DCDs:
Deception has deflection which is almost useless, and shroud for 5 seconds after a legendary utility. It also has a legendary utility that gives 60% DR, but taking it means losing either reapers rush which results in a loss of dps or losing the extra 2 seconds on shroud. It does give 24% of passive defenses if you can keep dps up (which is pretty easy) in addition to its 17% default, giving the deception the highest passive defenses in the game at 41%. Jugg has a better deflection, saber reflect which can double as an offensive tool, enraged defense which has some niche uses but wont protect against spike damage and fake health, which is not really that useful. PT has a 25% shield DCD, and kolto overload which gives an extra 30% DCD if specced into pyro. Sorc has, self heals (including one off GCD), static barrier, phase walk, god bubble, a 25% DR on a 45s CD and of course range. By default assassin has the lowest DR and jugg has the highest, with PT coming in second.

So based on all this, would deception be at the top? Honestly I this it would depend on the boss, on bosses like sword squadron, master and blaster, the council, kephess the warlord, vorgath or revan, deception would not be highest of the bottom 4. But on bosses like brontes I honestly think deception would be the best of the 4 (in contrast to what you believe). Shroud to deal with orb phase, reaper rush and burst to deal with kephess/the clock phase and correct me if I'm wrong but deflection would help with the finger phase. That is my opinion anyway.
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
03.28.2018 , 02:00 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
So deception is not in the top 3, but it is in the upper third of an 8 possible contestants right? 3/8 is 2 if you round down, 3 if you round up. It's ok, I understand what you were trying to say.
There are 18 dps specs, not 8, as the link you shared shows. So top 3 and top 3rd are indeed different.
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ottffsse
03.28.2018 , 03:20 PM | #10
I got news for you: have you tried playing concealment, marksman, or the sorc specs after these "adjustments"?
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