I've been leveling as Advanced Prototype since 10 and I've noticed that a few of the skills either lack luster or they don't sync well with the rest of the tree.

The first I noticed was Flame Barrage. Rocket Punch is fairly cheap and with Proto Cylinder Vents, heat management is too easy to worry about 16 Heat. The tree is more centered around building stacks for Prototype Flame Thrower, so I suggest:

• 2/2 Flame Barrage Rocket Punch and Flame Burst have a 15/30% chance and Immolate has a 50/100% chance to make your next Flame Thrower free. This effect lasts 15 seconds.

This allows more heat to be spent on PFT generators while not worrying so much about Heat going into the red to use the tree's biggest (if only) burst ability.

Next is Serrated Blades. This skill gives a pitiful bonus for 3 points. Most builds I have seen completely skip this skill and then complain that the tree lacks a slow (which to me is a valid complaint since it costs 5 points to gain the slow). For 3 points, the % damage bonus should be boosted while rolling Hamstring in:

• 3/3 Serrated Blades Retractable Blade's kinetic damage has a 33/66/100% chance to reduce the target's movement speed by 30% for 6 seconds and the bleed damage is increased by 8/16/25%.

The suggested % damage bonus is arbitrary, as I don't know exactly how much the damage should be boosted but you get the idea.

Last is Charged Gauntlets. Adding in RB's bleed to the proc chance table was a good step but even a Rail Shot critical is not worth the 16 Heat that could be spent on a harder hitting Rocket Punch or Flame Burst, let alone spending 4 points for a guaranteed critical. I suggest adding Rail Shot to the list of abilities that build charges of Prototype Flame Thrower while tweaking the talent:

• 2/2 Charged Gauntlets Damage dealt by Rocket Punch and Retractable Blade have a 12/25% chance to reduce the cooldown of Rail Shot by 1.5/3 seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3/1.5 seconds.

I like the idea of our melee abilities allowing more frequent use of Rail Shot (but not more than Pyrotech) and giving it utililty by adding Rail Shot to PFT but other than that, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what the tree needs to make Rail Shot more useful.

So those are my suggestions. What do you think Advanced Prototype could use to make it a more desirable spec?

Adding Flame Thrower and Retractable blade to the 30% crit damage bonus. I really love the idea about the free flame thrower. Possibly make it "Heat Cost of Flame Thrower and rocket punch reduced by 100%". Because it doesn't say "Next", this buff would stay on you even after you used rocket punch or flame thrower.

Hamstring should be for gut's duration (Imperial agents spend 3 points for their 18 seconds slow + dot, why not ours, only 15 seconds and 5 points!).

I think charged gauntlets is okay as of now.

I feel flame thrower should be our omgwtfbarbeque nuke sort of like the Deception sin's 5k shock crit D:

Adding Flame Thrower and Retractable blade to the 30% crit damage bonus. I really love the idea about the free flame thrower. Possibly make it "Heat Cost of Flame Thrower and rocket punch reduced by 100%". Because it doesn't say "Next", this buff would stay on you even after you used rocket punch or flame thrower.

 

Hamstring should be for gut's duration (Imperial agents spend 3 points for their 18 seconds slow + dot, why not ours, only 15 seconds and 5 points!).

 

I think charged gauntlets is okay as of now.

 

I feel flame thrower should be our omgwtfbarbeque nuke sort of like the Deception sin's 5k shock crit D:

The agent slow is 6 seconds at 30 percent, and it affects 3 people. It's completely awful just like hamstring except it costs 25 energy to use. An 18 second slow would be awful. Everyone already hates the Jugg/Guardian tank who spams that aoe slow.

I love AP as it is. My thoughts:

1) bleeding damage must be tuned up. Let it be 45% bonus from 3 points of serrated blades instead of hillarious 15%. To be in par with combustible dot f.e.

2) each tick of blade dot increases crit chance of itself for 1%, stacks to 5.

3) PFT at 5 stacks if used could reduce cooldown for railgun, shield, or kolto override.

4) make hydraulics 45% speed boost for 8 secs, but penalize for next 8 secs for 15%, so we lose our pneumatics passive bonus.

5) railgun crit shots could boost our damage mitigation for a small amount. Its once in 15 secs, lower damage than immolation and rocket punch, must be a good reason to use it (hello NORSE protos). or it can lower our global cds like carnage berserk f.e. It must be somehow advanced

I agree. 6 seconds is fine in a PvP environment.

The problem is it's attached to an attack that you don't want to spam. Whereas Operatives (Sever Tendon), Marauders (Crippling Slash), Pyrotechs (Sweltering Heat + Bursting Flame) and Juggernauts (Chilling Scream) can easily maintain a 100% uptime on a snare (Assasin has a spammable Force Slow, but is worse than the aforementioned abilities). In any case, 18 seconds would probably be too long, but 9 would be just fine IMHO.

As for the other proposed changes :

1) Flame Barrage change is a good idea, brings more synergy to the tree and empowers the signature ability.

2) Serrated Blades - again, this change looks good.

3) As for Charged Gauntlets - to be honest I'm not a fan of this ability at all; Rail shot is fairly useless in a deep AP spec and I fail to see a point in making it slightly better. Think they should scrap the idea entirely.

Some ideas for an ability replacing Charged Gauntlets (just some food for thought, some are pretty wild admittedly; number are of course arbitrary) :

1) Cornered Beast - Increases damage dealt by 3/6/9 % when your health drops beneath 30%.

2) Overheat - Increases heat by 50 and damage dealt by 25% for 6 seconds.

3) Envenomed Blade - Critical hits from Retractable Blade's DoT reduce target's elemental and internal resistance by 2% (stacks up to 3 times).

4) Heat Wave - vents 50 heat and deals moderate damage to a target (only usable when at more than 75 heat).

5) Pyroclasm - critical hits from Immolate root the target in place for 2 seconds.

6) Volatile Gas - targets suffering from Retractable Blade DoT receive 9% increased damage from heat based attacks.

7) Heat Surge - deals moderate damage to a BH and high damage to target player.

8) Pyromania - Prototype Flame Thrower deals 15% more damage to targets below 30% health.

1) Cornered Beast - Increases damage dealt by 3/6/9 % when your health drops beneath 30%.

 

2) Overheat - Increases heat by 50 and damage dealt by 25% for 6 seconds.

 

3) Envenomed Blade - Critical hits from Retractable Blade's DoT reduce target's elemental and internal resistance by 2% (stacks up to 3 times).

 

4) Heat Wave - vents 50 heat and deals moderate damage to a target (only usable when at more than 75 heat).

 

5) Pyroclasm - critical hits from Immolate root the target in place for 2 seconds.

 

6) Volatile Gas - targets suffering from Retractable Blade DoT receive 9% increased damage from heat based attacks.

 

7) Heat Surge - deals moderate damage to a BH and high damage to target player.

 

8) Pyromania - Prototype Flame Thrower deals 15% more damage to targets below 30% health.

1) I like this but it's definitely a PvP talent, tho I'm not sure if PvE'rs even take the current Charged Gauntlet.

2) Not sure about this one. Is it a damage buff that costs 50 Heat? This idea reminds me of a Lethal Op's Weakening Blast but theirs is +30% and free. Now that would be a great buff to add to Rail Shot.

3) I love the idea of our blade coated in poison! I think this would be fair to add to RB's normal ticks, not just crits. Call it "Synox-Coated Blade" (It's the only poison I can remember by name ). It would give us another reason to want to use RB.

4) This is interesting. I think it could be rolled into Vent Heat as a passive. When Vent Heat is used above 75 or more Heat, all targets in an 8m radius take elemental damage proportional to the heat vented (and perhaps 25/50% more heat is vented?) call it Forceful Venting.

5) A root would be awesome but if we can get a working Snare going with our +15% passive, HO and Grapple, I don't have much trouble kiting/chasing.

6) Same as 3, I think.

7) Not sure I would like to sac my health for the enemy's.

8) Burnout! I wouldn't mind an Execute but I think that niche is filled nicely by Pyros.

Um to all of you knocking RS in deep AP. The numbers show running an AP RS build is max DPS for AP. Sure a NORSE build doesn't have to worry about heat, but if you want max DPS you want an AP RS build. And that means for PVE.

Just pointing it out. Not sure AP really needs any changes TBH. The ones they made in 1.2 are awesome. And the hybrid Ap/Pyro is really Awesome. Spammable FB with slow, free RP, PPA proc's, running in CGC (cgc is just 100x better then HEGC), PFT on a group of dudes ticking for 1.2-2.4k, and unlike WoW no reduced damage no matter how many in that group. Watching 3 out of 5 die from the AoE is awesome.

Ahh that reminds me, the 1 change AP needs is a buff to HEGC. CGC is just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better that if you can manage the heat, run in CGC as full AP.

The agent slow is 6 seconds at 30 percent, and it affects 3 people. It's completely awful just like hamstring except it costs 25 energy to use. An 18 second slow would be awful. Everyone already hates the Jugg/Guardian tank who spams that aoe slow.

I was talking about interrogation probe. 1 point for the DoT, two for the 30% FOR THE DURATION. true, it's only single target and cannot be spammed until it ends.

Oh, and how about adding flamethrower to Prototype weapon systems... I think that Flame Barage is okay as it is now, AP Is the spec about free things and having a lot of heat to spam... But Serrated blades is really, really bad. How about "Damage dealt by Retractabale Blade / (Flame burst?) have a 25% chance to make the next flame thrower free and channel instantly. I'm getting so much PFT right now I"m using it basically every 16.5 seconds.

EDIT: How in the world does your railshot hit the same as - or even less as you put it - as a Flame Burst? I get rocket punch, but that's melee only. Flame Burst usually crits for about 1.2k and at max 1.6k. Rocket punch 1.9k to 2.1k. Immolate 1.9k to 2.6k. Note: I'm only level 40 on my AP. I use Railshot because I use it more than rocket punch crits, so I do more damage. But, I refrain from using it on a jedi with their wards up .._.

Um to all of you knocking RS in deep AP. The numbers show running an AP RS build is max DPS for AP. Sure a NORSE build doesn't have to worry about heat, but if you want max DPS you want an AP RS build. And that means for PVE.

 

Just pointing it out. Not sure AP really needs any changes TBH. The ones they made in 1.2 are awesome. And the hybrid Ap/Pyro is really Awesome. Spammable FB with slow, free RP, PPA proc's, running in CGC (cgc is just 100x better then HEGC), PFT on a group of dudes ticking for 1.2-2.4k, and unlike WoW no reduced damage no matter how many in that group. Watching 3 out of 5 die from the AoE is awesome.

 

 

Ahh that reminds me, the 1 change AP needs is a buff to HEGC. CGC is just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better that if you can manage the heat, run in CGC as full AP.

They either need to change HEGC, Buff Retractable Blades, change CGC to benefit a talent with better usage, or nerf CGC and reduce the Armor Penetration attached to Rail Shot.

He is correct Max AP requires RB and RS to be used. Norse is not used for better heat (though that's a benefit). It's used for damage reduction and a more synergy based feel.

AP is clunky and it's biggest benefit over Pyro is survival and aoe damage which the norse focuses on.

I was talking about interrogation probe. 1 point for the DoT, two for the 30% FOR THE DURATION. true, it's only single target and cannot be spammed until it ends.

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is no ability in the Scoundrel/Op tree that does this. We have Sever Tendon (energy hog and not spammable) and Corrosive Grenade/Shrap Bomb Slow (definitely not spammable).

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is no ability in the Scoundrel/Op tree that does this. We have Sever Tendon (energy hog and not spammable) and Corrosive Grenade/Shrap Bomb Slow (definitely not spammable).

He's talking about Eng Sniper/Saboslinger. They get a single target dot with an 18 second cooldown and a talent next to it that slows for the duration. If the dot is cleansed or the target is killed, the cooldown is refreshed. And it's a 30m range.

He's talking about Eng Sniper/Saboslinger. They get a single target dot with an 18 second cooldown and a talent next to it that slows for the duration. If the dot is cleansed or the target is killed, the cooldown is refreshed. And it's a 30m range.

That's neither an operative or a scoundrel. That's a ranged class that absolutely must have that ability or they will be ripped apart. You cannot compare a melee class to a ranged class slow.

I was talking about interrogation probe. 1 point for the DoT, two for the 30% FOR THE DURATION. true, it's only single target and cannot be spammed until it ends.

 

Oh, and how about adding flamethrower to Prototype weapon systems... I think that Flame Barage is okay as it is now, AP Is the spec about free things and having a lot of heat to spam... But Serrated blades is really, really bad. How about "Damage dealt by Retractabale Blade / (Flame burst?) have a 25% chance to make the next flame thrower free and channel instantly. I'm getting so much PFT right now I"m using it basically every 16.5 seconds.

 

EDIT: How in the world does your railshot hit the same as - or even less as you put it - as a Flame Burst? I get rocket punch, but that's melee only. Flame Burst usually crits for about 1.2k and at max 1.6k. Rocket punch 1.9k to 2.1k. Immolate 1.9k to 2.6k. Note: I'm only level 40 on my AP. I use Railshot because I use it more than rocket punch crits, so I do more damage. But, I refrain from using it on a jedi with their wards up .._.

Several things, Interrogation probe is for slingers/snipers, and is not applicable to this conversation. Ranged classes must have slows to be in the least bit effective.

You are only lvl 40 so your experience is limited. Flame Burst pulls way ahead as you gear correctly. At top War Hero level with remodded to remove accuracy your FB will hit for 3.3k - 3.8k, RS will with for 2.4k - 3k, Immolate for as high as 5, and RP for around 3k. There is no way you could use Rail shot more often than Rocket Punch unless you are saving Rocket Punch. Rocket Punch has a significantly lower cooldown - it should be used as close to on cooldown as possible.

That's neither an operative or a scoundrel. That's a ranged class that absolutely must have that ability or they will be ripped apart. You cannot compare a melee class to a ranged class slow.

Very true. To keep on track with AP ideas, I've come up with a few random others. To me, it seems AP is about mobility, AEs and instead of using abilities more often, the tree boosts their effectiveness. These are intended to sync and be in the same tree:

3/3 Flame Barrage (See OP)...and additionally, Flame Sweep has a 33/66/100% refund 8 Heat when it hits at least 3 enemy targets.

Changed to 3 skill points, up from 2.

2/2 Serrated Blades Increases the bleed damage of Retractable Blade by 15/30% and Rocket Punch has a 50/100% chance to slow the enemy target by 30% for 9 seconds.

Now we have a single target slow on a melee skill that you want to spam on cooldown. Changed to 2 skill points, down from 3.

1/1 Charged Gauntlets When you use Rail Shot against a target afflicted by your Retractable Blade, that target takes an additional 12% damage from your elemental and internal effects for 6 seconds.

A good reason to use Rail Shot: a boost in damage without 100% uptime and without making Flame Thrower a totally overpowered AE.

2/2 Forced Ventilation Vent Heat now immediately dissipates an additional 8/16 Heat and when used above 75% heat, all enemy targets in an 8m radius take elemental damage over 3 seconds proportional to the amount of heat vented. (Requires 2 points in Prototype Cylinder Ventilation).

Kind of a weird and different concept but I really liked Saprezzan's Heat Wave idea.

3/3 Prototype Weapon Systems Increases the critical strike damage bonus of all elemental and

internal effects by 10/20/30%.

I think this can go one of two ways: Either the above or a +30% Surge to Area Effect abilities, essentially Flame Thrower, Flame Sweep, Missile Blast, Explosive Dart, Forced Ventilation and Death From Above. Either way makes more sense than the current skill.

I think Rail Shot enhancements could be removed from the AP tree to simplify things.

Move Puncture (RS armor pen) to the Pyrotech tree where it belongs, and maybe move Iron Fist (RP damage) in it's place.

Charged Gauntlets shot cause Immolate crits, not RS. Makes more sense in the tree, and may give a more reliable burst.

Bump up HEGC's boost to internal/elemental by a couple percent to make AP damage closer to Pyrotech, and make it more desirable than CGC.

Advanced Prototype does not need much help but there is still room for some balanced improvements in DPS.

As many of you said Serrated Blades and HEGC both need a big upgrade.

I would also like to merge Serrated Blades with Hamstering.

New Serrated Blades

Increase the damage dealt by Retractable Blade's bleed effect by 15 / 30 / 45 % and Retractable Blade slows the target by 30% for 2 / 4 / 6 seconds.

This keeps the effect of Hamstering the same but adds it a little bit earlier so this might be a small nice buff for PvP as well. The bleed buff effect tripples but since it is so small at the moment it should not be overpowered. Perhaps you can buff it even more.

This also frees up one Skill point we have to add somewhere or add a new ability. I would like to add it to Charged Gauntlets.

New Charged Gauntlets

Damage dealt by Rocket Punch and Retractable Blade has a 15 / 30 % chance to make your next Rail Shot an automatic critical hit / an automatic critical hit and vent 8 heat.

This makes the crits on Railshot almost certain and adds a little bit of heat management to the skill. You still can't cast it unless you have 16 free heat. It just vents 8 right after you cast it.

New HEGC

While active, all internal and elemental damage dealt is increased by 12%.

This nearly doubles the effect of HEGC. Current is 5 + 3 = 8%. This would end up at 12 + 3 = 15%.

Don't get me wrong this is a strong buff but it does not seem that overpowered.

The problem with Hamstring, as someone already pointed out, is that it's tied to an ability that you don't want to spam. Refreshing the bleed after 6 seconds is a waste of heat.

I suggested the slow be tied to Rocket Punch and last 9 seconds. For balance, it could also stay 6 seconds and give enemies a 3 second window to gain distance.

Instead of boosting HEGC, I would suggest boosting the talent itself to increase the bonus by 100% (doubled, so 10% total against all targets). Combine that with a Charged Gauntlet's Rail Shot (+12%) that's +22% single target damage.

I really like the idea of AP using Rail Shot for utility instead of trying to boost the damage of the ability and think it should be considered.

The problem with Hamstring, as someone already pointed out, is that it's tied to an ability that you don't want to spam. Refreshing the bleed after 6 seconds is a waste of heat.

I suggested the slow be tied to Rocket Punch and last 9 seconds. For balance, it could also stay 6 seconds and give enemies a 3 second window to gain distance.

 

Instead of boosting HEGC, I would suggest boosting the talent itself to increase the bonus by 100% (doubled, so 10% total against all targets). Combine that with a Charged Gauntlet's Rail Shot (+12%) that's +22% single target damage.

I really like the idea of AP using Rail Shot for utility instead of trying to boost the damage of the ability and think it should be considered.

While it is perhaps not desireable to spam Retractable Blade it is still a 6 second spamable slow without a cooldown. We can slow lock someone.

I would much rather have Retractable Blade buffed and keep the slow on it than move the slow to a different ability and not getting Retractable Blade buffed.

I agree with you that HEGC buff should be tied to the talent. But your suggestion is 2%. And that won't cut it.

What if we would add 10% with the talent. HEGC is just so underpowered that people rather face heat issues than having it.

Read my post again. RB would get a huge damage boost, 15% per point.

HEGC talented should only be slightly higher or we risk getting nerfed elsewhere. That's why I like Rail Shot boosting our damage against a target.

What I'd really like to see is BW implementing skill trees that discouraged hybrid builds. The benefits of going 31 points in one tree should far outweigh a hybrid spec.

[Edit]: Just want to say, HEGC provides so much more than just a damage boost (damage that can't be cleansed, btw). It gives a movespeed boost which is king in PvP and automatically drops heat which is much more reliable than hoping for a proc. I don't think the cylinder needs much more damage. It should keep in line with it's purpose as a utility cylinder and let CGC be the raw damage cylinder.