Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

Thanks for the response. *crossing my fingers*

Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

Thank you for the response. I look forward to hearing what you guys find out and hope for some good news for Shadows and Assassins.

Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

Here's hoping it doesn't take 8 months to increase armor rating.

Btw, since my main is/was a sin, if you guys can actually fix this so that they're not the WORST tanks, I'd consider that "content" and would be fully satisfied.

Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

Once again Eric has the thankless task of trying to put a good face on the combat team's laziness, ignorance, and incompetence. Thanks for getting back to us and trying to do your job. Please tell the combat team they should maybe learn from your excellent example and try doing theirs.

BW should consider hiring Kitru I mean, I think they have done a decent job in the overall pvp/pve balance scheme (with some glaring exceptions as usual in every MMO) but it's always good to have more talent on your team.

They've met me in person already and I'd come on for almost nothing (20-25k/year) since I've got bupkis for expenses and just want to get in the industry already (plus, it's something of a dream job and I don't really care about monies). Hardest part about getting into game dev is the fact that they want previous experience, which is hard to get unless you've already got an in.

Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

Thank you for addressing these forums.

Thank You for the aknowledgment at last, even tho it's not much, the wall of silence was really frustrating.

To the ppl that put in the work on all the math and ideas ect, thanks for that too.

It's not much but it's that Bone we have been barking for, as for what Musco says, he needs to have something to say to be able to say something, and at the moment all he has to tell us is they know ppl are unhappy with the state of the class and there gonna talk about it, if they agree or not remains to be seen. The news may be good or bad, some might not be up for waiting but well ultimately thats up to the individual.

For me just knowing that they will atleast talk about it is a start, albiet a slow one, but a start.

Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

At last! This is the hope. Ty for the response. I hope we will waiting not too long, not a half year.

We got their attention, hope they fix it before we leave the game en masse.

PS: funny how I could not log into my account and got a warning

I wonder if in another 6 months a dev will have posted on the Assassin forums, but back on topic.

A merc healer mentioning using supercharge gas and not critting 6-7 times in a row and thus losing the tank gave me this idea: an ability that makes all incoming heals autocrit or increases their crit chance for x% over a duration y with a cooldown z.

Would it work? All ideas are for decreasing spikiness and brining us closer to jugg/PT, the problem with that is that once we're just as easy to heal as juggs/PT's our increased average mitigation will boost us ahead and into the best tank position no matter what, no tradeoff. And it's difficult to find a good spot where we're not merely *juggs with two glued sabers*

The problem with my suggestion is that it won't solve RNG deaths, it would push sins further into rotating cd's whilst tanking no matter what. But such a cd would be interesting to use, it would also increase average mitigation by decreasing average healing required and might unbalance pvp, autocrit heals for 5 seconds does sound overpowered in pvp.

Other options would be aforementioned staggering mechanics: we take 70% or x% of our health in damage within 1 GCD and we [heal 25% of our health/gain 30% DR but lose dark ward and all dark bulwark charges/get an absorb barrier reflecting single target attacks (all types) for the next 2-3 seconds/we gain a 5-10K absorb shield for 5 seconds/we avoid all single target attack for 2-3 seconds etc etc...] One of those.

Personally I'd like a defensive/survival cooldown tied to Recklessness (60% crit chance on force) and the Stealth Cloak or Vanish, the latter one may be just because it will prevent people from claiming that Vanish is a *raid utility* sin tanks bring to the raid.

Here's hoping it doesn't take 8 months to increase armor rating.

 

Btw, since my main is/was a sin, if you guys can actually fix this so that they're not the WORST tanks, I'd consider that "content" and would be fully satisfied.

Don't despair, if everything else fails we can always play the viable DPS role.... oh wait, we are the worst of all at that too.

We got their attention, hope they fix it before we leave the game en masse.

It's a PR move called "buying time". You feel relieved and will keep staying subbed for some more months, waiting for Godot. Then, some changes might or might not happen, but then you have shelled your money and thus they won.

I'd probably roll over laughing if the investigation resulted in this:

"Hey guys after thorough investigation, we found a bug affecting the damage dealt to all Assassins and Shadows. Enemy NPCs are incorrectly receiving a hidden damage boost when dealing damage to Assassins and Shadows. Light armour is also incorrectly taking more damage than no armour."

It's a PR move called "buying time". You feel relieved and will keep staying subbed for some more months, waiting for Godot. Then, some changes might or might not happen, but then you have shelled your money and thus they won.

It's better than nothing at all.

I mean no disrespect, but your response has come way too late and effort to fix the issue is None at best.

Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

Hey guys,

 

Apologies for the silence on this. I wanted to pass this back to the combat guys and make sure we had an in-depth conversation about Shadow/Assassin tanks before coming back to you guys. What I can say is that we are investigating the Shadow/Assassin tank’s performance against hard-hitting Operations bosses. I have no timeline on any potential changes right now but I at least wanted you guys to know that we are aware of your concerns.

 

-eric

better late than never.

after you have done your calculations and (should there be a problem...) adaptations,

maybe one (or more) of your people who has experience with the other classes might want to try playing a shadow/assassin for a while, also don't pair them with your best Healers see what happens to a VG/Guardian when paired with a decent but not perfect Healer and then repeat it with a Shadow.

did you think you were able to help your healer keeping you and your Group up on your VG/Guardien? (y/n)

did you think you were able to help your healer keeping you up on your Shadow? (y/n)

then ask your Healer how he felt. be truthful.

did it feel good what your Healer had to say to you? (y/n)

repeat that in a few 55HC Flashpoints, with recommended Gear/with gear that drops in that same Instance.

Story Operations with recommended Gear/with gear that drops in that same Instance.

in addition to the HC/NIM ops where it's a live or death Issue even with good Healers (should there be a Problem...).

also at least for FP's you might want to try it out with all three Heal Classes. they don't take all that long.

yea I'll tell everyone who asks that all (current) content is doable even with double shadows.

but I much prefer Healing even double shadows over playing one myself these days (except for TFB that's a nice OP).

you watch your Health Drop and are unable to do anything to help your Healer, because you now that if you now use one of your CDs to help out recovering from a Random-Spike, you will die to the non-random Burst mechanic.

would you like to play a tank like that if you had a choice? (y/n)

if asked directly I'd tell any Healer he/she needs to improve if they can't keep a good shadow easily alive in anything except for A&V, but that wasn't half that big a Problem before 2.0.

did you notice my disclaimer?

oh and then do the content with the Accuracy/Alac Tank gear you seem to like that much.

see what happens to a VG/Guardian.

see what happens to a Shadow.

did it feel as if the defs has crapped upon you? (y/n)

not to mention

did you think placing your Phase walk was comfortable? (y/n)

did your healers use it after you replaced it during Combat? (y/n)

They've always been big on "self healing" being a "primary" mitigation factor. And, before they nerfed shadow\assassin so hard, it worked out okay. But when you're getting two unlucky crits in a row on Writhing Horror NiM for 20k+ each, a heal for 3-4k over 3 seconds isn't going to do anything. If they were serious about "self heals" with the kind of damage I've been seeing on NiM, they'd change overcharge saber so that it instantly heals you to 100% HP in addition to its other effects.

You could also return them to their previous state, but they really want a "light armor" tank, which is horrible when you get unlucky RNG crits as mentioned above. So another hilarious option I thought up is: a passive ability that completely nullifies enemy critical hits. How much fun that would be.

better late than never.

 

after you have done your calculations and (should there be a problem...) adaptations,

 

maybe one (or more) of your people who has experience with the other classes might want to try playing a shadow/assassin for a while, also don't pair them with your best Healers see what happens to a VG/Guardian when paired with a decent but not perfect Healer and then repeat it with a Shadow.

^ This.

In other words Devs, leave your rolling/stationary snipers alone and get to shadow tanking, see how you like it at the moment.

In all seriousness, I have pretty much left my shadow in the dark because of the huge nerf. I did manage to tank and complete all the HMs, but when NiM TFB was announced, I switched to my main DPS. Ironically, I saw a guildie shadow tank, slightly more geared than my tank is, die because of the spikiness, over and over and over. Asked what the cause of death was every time, "meh pretty much over 20k in 1 hit" was the answer. Not to mention the 19k+ hits on BOTH Story Mode and Hard Mode S&V on Thrasher and the Operations Chief's Terminate (25k+).

So with all respect, we all appreciate the "news" that the team "is looking into it", but what really would be appreciated, is if it would be resolved IN THE NEXT PATCH APPLIED using the math that has already been done by your friendly PLAYERS in YOUR commuity (Kitru, KBN) instead of another Cartel Market discount / item.

Thanks for reading.

You could also return them to their previous state

I'd like a comment from one of the theory crafters on this:

If sins were restored to their Exact pre1.3 state, i.e., no phase walk heals/only 8 charges of dark ward/no dark bulwark, but the 150% armor from dark charge+20% armor from tree talent + restored dark charge heals+ restored force lightning %s....would they still be super spikey and die of RNG deaths?

Was even that amount of armor/self heals not enough to bring spikiness down?

Or would they just be stomping through nightmare ops with no remote chance of spikey RNG deaths?

Honest questions, would really like to know.

We got their attention, hope they fix it before we leave the game en masse.

 

 

 

 

PS: funny how I could not log into my account and got a warning

Sorry you got a warning Leafy, but props to you for getting them to finally respond. You were one of the few people I remember posting on the pts forums about the second armor nerf pretty much thinking :confused:?! I think most shadow/sin tanks share that sentiment now.

Still amazed by the original dev response, still available on the dulfy site:

http://dulfy.net/2013/02/25/swtor-patch-2-0-developer-responses/

In this case you’re seeing a rebalance – not a nerf.

pfft, "rebalance" indeed.

Guess now we just wait and see if this pans out:

If that isn’t the case in reality (because there are so many more variables in the real game than in our tests), then we will act as quickly as we can to fix it.

Here's hoping.

I can see it now..

After the investigation and they have figures, It will happen like this!

“Hi Folks,

We have found an error in the armour ratings, In order to correct this imbalance, we have released a simple fix.

This simple fix will be a one-time purchase of 1800 Cartel Coins from the Cartel Market.

When bound to your character you will receive a 5% Buff, This buff will be bound to one character and will last until we break things again.

In order to show you our appreciation for continuing your support and continued subscription, we will include a free party pack of fireworks, 25 in total to share with your friends. If you need more, you can purchase them from the cartel market…."

I am sorry to say that there is nothing wrong with the shadow/sin tank spec Because the set up i have for my tanks and the rotation i run i have never run into these problems. Dont know about the rest of you but my raid teams have completed all the ops and i hold threat just fine and dont really take much damage and the healers only have to heal mine for very little during the raid.

So my first idea the guys that are having problems look into your build and research it some more the game gives u the little tool tips of what it does then research a good rotation, and if you have this, and you are still dying

My next idea would be to find better gear that can be easily obtained by running HM then if that still does not work.

my final idea is to find better healers and DPS.

I am sorry to say that there is nothing wrong with the shadow/sin tank spec Because the set up i have for my tanks and the rotation i run i have never run into these problems. Dont know about the rest of you but my raid teams have completed all the ops and i hold threat just fine and dont really take much damage and the healers only have to heal mine for very little during the raid.

 

So my first idea the guys that are having problems look into your build and research it some more the game gives u the little tool tips of what it does then research a good rotation, and if you have this, and you are still dying

 

My next idea would be to find better gear that can be easily obtained by running HM then if that still does not work.

 

And my final idea is to find better healers and DPS.

I take it you did not clear NM Asation then?

Check this thread for more info about what they are talking about. I'm sure you will realize that once you read that thread, your proposition to read tooltips becomes a bit laughable...

I take it you did not clear NM Asation then?

Check this thread for more info about what they are talking about. I'm sure you will realize that once you read that thread, your proposition to read tooltips becomes a bit laughable...

Oh, come on. It's not THAT laughable! Kitru should TOTALLY read the tooltips!

Then rewrite them to make them ten times more comprehensive.

I want to see the entire screen be filled with a Kitru style tooltip! Add a scrollbar to the tooltip just for how much Kitru would write to explain Shock!