So, I played through the Meridian Complex on my Sith Warrior who has married Theron Shan. I made mostly dark side choices throughout. He basically chewed Lana and I out at the end and walked away. Yikes! I'm wondering if this romance can last in the upcoming chapters. Any thoughts?

 

Also, anyone happen to know when new chapters may drop. Hopefully soon.

I honestly hope it is. I think SWTOR should make the stakes high for choosing your sides, think of ME2 suicide mission but instead you have to potentially fight and decide the fate of old allies. I personally can't see anything happening like this with lana as she just seems cool with whatever you do all around but I do think it could happen with theron and other old pub/imp comps

Depends on money and programming. They wrote themselves into a corner when they gave the option to kill or banish Theron in Iokath. Anyone who does either is playing the game wrong, of course. Now everything after has to be written and programmed with Theron there and Theron not there. How detailed will they take the romance? I was pleased in Onslaught, at least on the Republic side, they made two romance scenes with Theron. They are treating the character seriously.

 

The question then is can you get so dark Theron wants to leave you? He pleads his heart out to you in Iokath. He knows you could have left him to die. You didn't. You could have banished him. You didn't. He's devoted to you. Ultimately it's up to the writers, but in character I think if it were possible he'd leave he would give you a warning first. He'd tell you you're breaking his heart and will plead for you to stop. There will be a decision later in the game. If you choose dark he leaves. The game may or may not warn you Theron would end the relationship. If you choose light he stays.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Hadsil

So, I played through the Meridian Complex on my Sith Warrior who has married Theron Shan. I made mostly dark side choices throughout. He basically chewed Lana and I out at the end and walked away. Yikes! I'm wondering if this romance can last in the upcoming chapters. Any thoughts?

 

Also, anyone happen to know when new chapters may drop. Hopefully soon.

 

 

 

Now, all that being said, there are really only three ways BW can get out of this.

1. Theron continues to react in ways appropriate to his character, regarding your choices. You make dark choices, he gets upset, but nothing changes with regards to the technical romance. You're romancing on paper, but not in any realistic sense, because you basically stand for the opposite of what Theron stands for. This, of course, renders the romance meaningless.
   
2. Theron gets upset at your dark side choices and leaves the Alliance, ending the romance. Players complain that their choices mattered, and the Devs cave in and make Theron available via the Companion Locator Terminal. I'm not thrilled with this solution, but I would prefer this option than a scenario where the romance is rendered meaningless.
   
3. The writers write a change in his personality. Theron decides to abandon his previous principles, the ones that took him to the brink of the dark side anyway in an attempt to stop the Order of Zildrog, and embrace Imperial philosophy.
   

 

It seems unlikely that the writers would create a pathway where Theron changes his personality, and becomes dark. In all the years we've known him, since the prelude to SoR to now, the only clear dark side choice Theron approves of is the option to

 

 

If there is another choice feel free to correct me, but he's pretty much stayed in character the whole time. He certainly had to make difficult choices while undercover, but in the end he was doing it for the Light side. Like his ancestor Revan, he will go to some pretty dark places ... but such is the life of a spy, and for him the end has to justify the means or his whole life means nothing.

 

In fact, the only companion who's personality you can really change is Jaesa. Even the Sith Inquisitor romancing Ashara can't really make her into a dark sider. The dark side choices in those conversations just seem very incongruous with romancing her, unless you are actually just lying to seduce her, which is certainly very Sithy.

 

I'll admit that Lana appears to make a change, if you are a Republic character and you romance her, but she doesn't exactly give up her philosophy.

 

 

Still, that's two companions, only one of which is available to all classes. Its certainly not evidence that Theron will be written in such a way as to become dark side aligned just to stay in a romantic relationship with the PC.

 

As to your other question, new "chapters" as in new story content will not be coming until 6.2 which is tentatively slated for December around Christmastime.

Thank you all! Gives me much to think about as far as story going forward.

[*]Theron continues to react in ways appropriate to his character, regarding your choices. You make dark choices, he gets upset, but nothing changes with regards to the technical romance. You're romancing on paper, but not in any realistic sense, because you basically stand for the opposite of what Theron stands for. This, of course, renders the romance meaningless.

 

You are right, for sure. The choices do have consequences. Unfortunately, I feel that this is kind of what's happening in regards to my sith and Theron. He's upset, walks away but stays in the Alliance? That, like you said, would just be romance "on paper" which is kind of where I didn't want it to go. I'm finding it much harder for my PC to keep the Alliance in tact, yet stay true to her Empire roots. I have several characters (both Rep and Imp) where I kept the Alliance separate from faction. I can easily see the difficulties in those particular decisions, more so for a sith, than the republic side of things.

Yeah, the interesting thing is, if you try to pry for information as to why Darth Krovos is using her fleet, like a good saboteur, then you will get in trouble with Theron because civilians on Corellia died in the distraction indiscriminate bombing. Only if you choose the conversation option to convince her to focus on military targets, is Theron happy. In some ways, I kind of like it ... after all, you need to have this conversation before the Empire begins the operation. You don't know the outcome of the attack, so it preserves that sense of realism. It makes you realize that sometimes you have to plead for less violence even if it isn't clearly the marked "Saboteur" option. In your case of course, you are not a saboteur, but you have to realize choices have consequences.

 

Now, all that being said, there are really only three ways BW can get out of this.

1. Theron continues to react in ways appropriate to his character, regarding your choices. You make dark choices, he gets upset, but nothing changes with regards to the technical romance. You're romancing on paper, but not in any realistic sense, because you basically stand for the opposite of what Theron stands for. This, of course, renders the romance meaningless.
   
2. Theron gets upset at your dark side choices and leaves the Alliance, ending the romance. Players complain that their choices mattered, and the Devs cave in and make Theron available via the Companion Locator Terminal. I'm not thrilled with this solution, but I would prefer this option than a scenario where the romance is rendered meaningless.
   
3. The writers write a change in his personality. Theron decides to abandon his previous principles, the ones that took him to the brink of the dark side anyway in an attempt to stop the Order of Zildrog, and embrace Imperial philosophy.
   

 

It seems unlikely that the writers would create a pathway where Theron changes his personality, and becomes dark. In all the years we've known him, since the prelude to SoR to now, the only clear dark side choice Theron approves of is the option to

 

destroy the Infinite Army cyborg prototypes in their stasis chambers on the Rakata homeworld during the "Legacy of the Rakata" flashpoint after the second boss.

 

If there is another choice feel free to correct me, but he's pretty much stayed in character the whole time. He certainly had to make difficult choices while undercover, but in the end he was doing it for the Light side. Like his ancestor Revan, he will go to some pretty dark places ... but such is the life of a spy, and for him the end has to justify the means or his whole life means nothing.

 

In fact, the only companion who's personality you can really change is Jaesa. Even the Sith Inquisitor romancing Ashara can't really make her into a dark sider. The dark side choices in those conversations just seem very incongruous with romancing her, unless you are actually just lying to seduce her, which is certainly very Sithy.

 

I'll admit that Lana appears to make a change, if you are a Republic character and you romance her, but she doesn't exactly give up her philosophy.

She admits as much in her conversation with Jedi Master Gnost Dural on the bridge of Gen. Daeruun's flagship on the way to Corellia. She does appear to believe in the player character more than dark side per se, and she certainly comes around to the idea of the Force having a plan/destiny by the time the PC encounters Arcann, which isn't exactly dark side. Sith believe the Force should be subservient to the wielder, and don't really acknowledge the notion of the Will of the Force. Lana appears to come around to that view ultimately, she's just not as stuck up about the rules as the Jedi. Honestly, I see a lot of parallels between her and Anakin by the end of the Clone Wars. I do believe Lana has real feelings for the player character, as the breakup cutscene (if you romance her during KOTFEET and then resume a romance with a returning companion) was well written and is pretty gut-wrenching, in my opinion. That presumes a level of intimacy and love that I just don't think true Sith are capable of having.

 

 

Still, that's two companions, only one of which is available to all classes. Its certainly not evidence that Theron will be written in such a way as to become dark side aligned just to stay in a romantic relationship with the PC.

 

As to your other question, new "chapters" as in new story content will not be coming until 6.2 which is tentatively slated for December around Christmastime.

Theron has at least one more dark side action he approves of and that would be

. Also its not as obvious as it it first appears also imo because even without the romance angle he went through a lot for his friends in the alliance. And choosing between friends and ideals is never an easy choice. Also he doesn't have to go fully dark to support the newly sith allied commander. I mean we have had LS Imperial allied pc decide to stay sith with no sabetour route (yes those players do exist) during this expansion so he could be put in similar boat to them choosing to ally with the empire to make it better from within. Also that's kind of why LS Jasea joins the SW so we already kind of have something similar even if the PC goes fully evil after that.

LS Jaesa and Ashara pretty much have a similar agenda... transforming the Empire from within. They both realize that their masters harbor darkness within... not unlike the disappointment and disillusionment felt by Rey when she finds Luke has become a hermit and cut himself off from the Force. The former padawans’ common mistake of course is not understanding that amplifying the light and suppressing the dark are struggles everyone must go through every day, instead believing that a person can be cleansed of all dark through mere training and discipline. In any event, whether the PC is on board with this transformation or simply plays along (in some cases merely to seduce), is irrelevant to the companion. At least, irrelevant on first look. But we can see when both those Padawans return from their prolonged sabbaticals that they still are drawn, like gravity, to the PC, regardless of the choices they made. In many ways this would be similar to what happens with Theron and the non-saboteur Imperial PC. The romance is on paper but isn’t believable.

 

In this way, I have to admire Elara Dorne and the way her return was written. Ultimately she holds the PC accountable, assuming that the choices the PC makes during their trooper class story and on Iokath are not randomly generated responses but cohesively dark side. Elara actually refuses to return to the Trooper PC if they side with the Empire on Iokath... actually she refuses to join any republic character if they side with the Empire on Iokath, but it’s especially tough on the romancing Trooper. In my opinion, her refusal to return to a romanced Trooper who sides with the Empire on Iokath is better written than her romantic reunion. Of course, she can be returned via the Companion Locator Terminal so nothing really matters, but it’s better than the romance being meaningless. Now, I’ve never actually made a truly dark Sith Warrior whose sole light side choice in the entire story and all it’s expansions was to keepJaesa light sided, just to see what her return during Ossus looks like. Maybe someone made a YouTube video. So if she reacts to the PC the way Elara does and holds them accountable for their actions, please correct me.

 

At any rate, I forgot about that other choice Theron approves of ... it’s a hard one every time because honestly that NPC really deserves it... but thanks for that reminder. I once believed it was possible to play a character who could transform the Empire from within. The Imperial agent who uses the black codex to disappear... the former slave turned dark council member who is light sided. There’s just not a ton of wiggle room. I mean the light choice for the Imperial on Makeb still dooms the planet. I don’t doubt those players exist, but they aren’t given a lot of options to meaningfully change the galaxy other than a few convo options (like sympathizing with Malgus’ revolution on Ilum without supporting his violence.). In this way I actuallly agree with Valkorion ... the Empire, at least its leadership and philosophy, isn’t really worth saving. Look, they’re still openly working with slavers on Mek Sha... and while you can disrupt the operations during a heroic mission there, if you don’t do the heroic dailies you wouldn’t encounter it during your story. Certainly visually flagging that conversation option before the attack as THE light side choice ... the one where you convince Krovos to not target civilians in her bombardment of Corellia ... the only outcome Theron is somewhat tolerant of ... would be a step in the right direction by BioWare for those light sided non-saboteur imperial characters still naively trying to transform the Empire from within. But it may just be easier from a logistical perspective to shoehorn those players into the saboteur storyline.

 

I understand, of course. There’s only so many degrees of freedom the Designers, engineers, and Writers can support. It will never compare to the real life nuances of moral decisions we have to make. I’m glad they are trying though.

My female Sniper is a double agent for the republic. On my first playthrough for Ossus and Onslaught, I always selected the Sabotaur option. But when I selected the option to have the alliance remain independant, Theron chewed out on Lana and I. So, in a fashion sense, I deleted my sniper, remade her and ran everything again from start to finish. Class Story, Planet Story, Illum, Makeb, SoR, Ziost, KOTFE, KOTET, the Traitor arc and then finally Onslaught.

 

All the while, regaining romance with Theron. Second playthrough, I made mostly dark side choices throughout. Theron still chews out on Lana and I, despite the fact that I was like doing the Republic a favor by killing off major figures in the Empire and he still chews out on the both of us. At first, I thought my sniper was going to be stuck with the independant choice she made the first time. But seeing your post, it made me think it may had something to do with the dark side choices I made. Maybe I delete my sniper again and run everything all over again, because I'm thinking that I want to keep Theron happy since my sniper's married to him.

... would be a step in the right direction by BioWare for those light sided non-saboteur imperial characters still naively trying to transform the Empire from within. But it may just be easier from a logistical perspective to shoehorn those players into the saboteur storyline.

 

I understand, of course. There’s only so many degrees of freedom the Designers, engineers, and Writers can support. It will never compare to the real life nuances of moral decisions we have to make. I’m glad they are trying though.

I also think that the game is heading towards different goals between the galactic nation, not just imperial reform.

 

Non-sab imperials, I believe, can claim in dialogue with Theron that what they intend is a galaxy at peace so the empire may prosper and the republic not necessarily fall. Something to which Theron responds with something like understanding.

 

I don't know if Bioware is going to make this a goal the player can specifically pick but I liked the idea that I could potentially play a not-dark imperial character that hoped but didn't necessarily *believe* in imperial reform, who would instead attempt to limit the scale of the war and attempt to get the nations to make peace.