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The Expertise stat has to go...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Expertise stat has to go...

Armethious's Avatar


Armethious
01.25.2012 , 07:46 AM | #1221
Quote: Originally Posted by Dovahkien View Post
Not really, a couple Columi pieces have slighlty better stats but that staement is just wrong....
Oh really? A couple of pieces? How about most.

Fine, here you go.

Champion Force-Mystic's Robe
+86 Endurance
+87 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Robe
+98 Endurance
+114 Willpower
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Winner? Columi

Champion Force-Mystic's Gloves
+94 Endurance
+75 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Gloves
+116 Endurance
+93 Willpower
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Winner? Columi

Champion Force-Mystic's Headgear
+94 Endurance
+75 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Headgear
+116 Endurance
+93 Willpower
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Winner? Columi

Champion Force-Mystic's Boots
+86 Endurance
+87 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Boots
+98 Endurance
+114 Willpower
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Winner? Columi yet again

Champion Force-Mystic's Lower Robe
+94 Endurance
+75 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+53 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Lower Robe
+116 Endurance
+93 Willpower
+53 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Winner, wait for it..... Columi

Champion Stalker's Waistwrap
+56 Endurance
+77 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+10 Power

Columi Stalker's Waistwrap
+66 Endurance
+97 Willpower
+10 Power

Another amazing win by Columi

Champion Force-Master's Bracers
+56 Endurance
+77 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+10 Critical Rating

Columi Force-Master's Bracers
+66 Endurance
+97 Willpower
+10 Critical Rating

Columi wins again

Champion Force-Master's Relay
+70 Endurance
+77 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+41 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Master's Relay
+80 Endurance
+97 Willpower
+41 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi wins, wow does it sound like I am repeating myself?

Champion Force-Master's Implant
+76 Endurance
+66 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+48 Critical Rating
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Master's Implant
+93 Endurance
+80 Willpower
+48 Critical Rating
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi wins!

I think I have proven my point. Go spread your ignorance elsewhere. Next time you make a statement like that, back it up with facts.

Cynan_Ski's Avatar


Cynan_Ski
01.25.2012 , 08:00 AM | #1222
Just out of curiosity..... since we all seem to be fighting about this topic for awhile..... i assume to get the attention of our gods (BW) when was the last time a yellow name even showed up in the pvp forums other than to tell us topic was being moved or closed?
Camping is for losers
" I wonder if the Nazi's said that same thing to the 101st airborne in bastone "
Quote: Originally Posted by Mordekaiserr View Post
resolve bar? i thought was the gang bang meter....

AlbertXP's Avatar


AlbertXP
01.25.2012 , 10:55 AM | #1223
I hope when they introduce player rating in march they put in another tier of gear that requires rating to get. And no i don't come from WoW arenas. I just think its a good concept. Skill should equal better gear than grind gear.

Vodrin's Avatar


Vodrin
01.25.2012 , 11:01 AM | #1224
I always liked the approach age of conan took at launch. They placed a separate rating on raid gear (heroic rating) that buffed PvE performance. It made that gear the best possible for PvE, but crap for PvP. Good PvP gear was easily attainable through crafting and small group PvE (and latter PvP). It was easy to get gear that was competative with almost all players, and there was much more difficult to get gear that was more powerful. But a skilled player on a brand new level capped player would usually beat a poor player in the best gear.

Avindra's Avatar


Avindra
01.25.2012 , 01:33 PM | #1225
Quote: Originally Posted by Vodrin View Post
I always liked the approach age of conan took at launch. They placed a separate rating on raid gear (heroic rating) that buffed PvE performance. It made that gear the best possible for PvE, but crap for PvP. Good PvP gear was easily attainable through crafting and small group PvE (and latter PvP). It was easy to get gear that was competative with almost all players, and there was much more difficult to get gear that was more powerful. But a skilled player on a brand new level capped player would usually beat a poor player in the best gear.
Age of Conans PVP died when they introduced Bori Armor.

ScytheNoire's Avatar


ScytheNoire
01.26.2012 , 12:38 AM | #1226
PvP stats need to go. It destroys the balance and removes the skill.
It's going to drive away people from doing PvP at 50 and only going to get worse over time.

BDutch's Avatar


BDutch
01.26.2012 , 01:02 AM | #1227
Quote: Originally Posted by AlbertXP View Post
I hope when they introduce player rating in march they put in another tier of gear that requires rating to get. And no i don't come from WoW arenas. I just think its a good concept. Skill should equal better gear than grind gear.
Personally I don't like arenas, but I think rating/arenas are a crucial part of making WoW's PvP gear treadmill "work." Small games (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) that don't require faction balance, plus large battlegroups for cross-server queues give you enough people to pull from to where you can do match making based on rating.

Rating alone without the other features to increase the pool to pull from/lower the number/faction required won't help. Queue times would go up, and you're more likely to get matched for a no-win scenario. This will only get worse if/when additional tiers of gear are added. So as much as I wish it would go to the other direction, it seems like it would be better to copy the rest of WoW's model (arenas, battlegroups) rather than only the gear inflation part.

Even if these things were adopted by SWTOR though, they would still require a sufficient pool of players to work with, (not to mention the people that simply hate arenas/battlegroups). That makes less gear-dependent models seem less risky, IMO. The 10-49 approach to PvP seems to work better for SWTOR than what happens at 50. 50 seems like it's based on a different game entirely.
Originally Posted by Puja
The sentinel PVP armor is PINK and POOP colored with golden ******* and a clown helmet my brain is not able to make any sense out of. Then some sort of giant bug from the Jetsons has attached itself to the left shoulder.

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
01.26.2012 , 01:09 AM | #1228
Its not going anywhere, just accept it. It's there to encourage people who pvp to get their gear from pvp... It's a good system, it means the people who spend their time in pvp can be more competitive in that field than those that dont. I keep reading wow players want this and that etc - it's you anti expertise people that have the issue here.
This is a trinity based mmo, with a pvp stat, it has alot of similarities to wow and rift, so stop pretending it's a conpletley different genre, it's an mmo borrowing alot of ideas from the top mmos.
You start letting people just use whatever pve gear you want and then what do you think will happen? Raid guild stomping everyone, a complete nightmare for the devs to balance. Pvp and pve should be separate, most people like it that way. If people can't handle earning the gear through warzones and being out geared then what is your solution? You will always be out geared one way it another.
The problem with you anti expertise people is YOU want this to be a different game, not the "wow" people, I don't even play wow, just because I like a system and you don't doesn't make you superior.
Bottom line is the debs went with this choice, and you have to accept most people don't have any issue at all, it doesn't take long - and if you can't handle it, then you should probably stick to pve or play a game with a system that more suits your play style. Don't start stereotyping people because they don't have a problem with it

GhrimReeper's Avatar


GhrimReeper
01.27.2012 , 01:18 AM | #1229
I don't think Expertise needs to be removed, it definitely needs to be rebalanced though. I just hit 50 and whenever I enter a WZ I just get absolutely smashed. I love PvP and this makes it very hard to enjoy the PvP experience.

Why exactly does this stat INCREASE damage done to players? Why not just have it reduce damage taken from players? Why does it increase healing? Just alter the trauma debuff. I don't understand what BioWare was thinking when they made this stat. You need to rethink how this stat works and you need to change it. It will cause problems for new players in the future.

I do like how level 1 - 49 is scaled so everyone is about even on stats.

thepilk's Avatar


thepilk
01.27.2012 , 01:25 AM | #1230
Quote: Originally Posted by Armethious View Post
Oh really? A couple of pieces? How about most.

Fine, here you go.

Champion Force-Mystic's Robe
+86 Endurance
+87 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Robe
+98 Endurance
+114 Willpower
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Winner? Columi

Champion Force-Mystic's Gloves
+94 Endurance
+75 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Gloves
+116 Endurance
+93 Willpower
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Winner? Columi

Champion Force-Mystic's Headgear
+94 Endurance
+75 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Headgear
+116 Endurance
+93 Willpower
+53 Critical Rating
+48 Surge Rating

Winner? Columi

Champion Force-Mystic's Boots
+86 Endurance
+87 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Boots
+98 Endurance
+114 Willpower
+44 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Winner? Columi yet again

Champion Force-Mystic's Lower Robe
+94 Endurance
+75 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+53 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Mystic's Lower Robe
+116 Endurance
+93 Willpower
+53 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Winner, wait for it..... Columi

Champion Stalker's Waistwrap
+56 Endurance
+77 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+10 Power

Columi Stalker's Waistwrap
+66 Endurance
+97 Willpower
+10 Power

Another amazing win by Columi

Champion Force-Master's Bracers
+56 Endurance
+77 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+10 Critical Rating

Columi Force-Master's Bracers
+66 Endurance
+97 Willpower
+10 Critical Rating

Columi wins again

Champion Force-Master's Relay
+70 Endurance
+77 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+41 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Master's Relay
+80 Endurance
+97 Willpower
+41 Power
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi wins, wow does it sound like I am repeating myself?

Champion Force-Master's Implant
+76 Endurance
+66 Willpower
+46 Expertise Rating
+48 Critical Rating
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi Force-Master's Implant
+93 Endurance
+80 Willpower
+48 Critical Rating
+48 Alacrity Rating

Columi wins!

I think I have proven my point. Go spread your ignorance elsewhere. Next time you make a statement like that, back it up with facts.
This is wrong because expertise scales better than those other stats.

point by point itd take hundreds of points of your primary stat to get the flat % damage boost granted by Expertise. 500 expertise gives the kind of damage that itd take thousands of points of other stats to compensate for. It also is the only stat to boost damage AND damage reduction by those high ammounts. just because columni has higher "normal" stats doesnt mean its giving the same effects..anything without expertise is weak in endgame pvp.
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