I haven't stopped to consider tanks are actually gearing and specing into full tank now.

Im so used to hybrids I forgot how much survive ability a full fledge balls to the wall tank has.

I officially withdraw my argument my bad

On a side not....*** am I still getting hit with 8k smashes? I have full partisan gear with a few elite pieces thrown in.

^^^^^This

They BUFFED jugg armor rating in tank stance....yet now taking even bigger smashes than before 2.0?

It's like Smash ignores 50% or more of your armor rating now. Before 2.0, more armor = smaller smash, so sorcs would get hit for 7k, vanguard tanks for 3-4k.......now vanguard/guardian tanks are getting hit for 7-8k?.....

I got nailed on my sin tank for 8k and I thought "k, armor nerf, that sucks...." then I got hit for 8k on my jugg, which now has like 4k more armor than my sin.....

I'd love to get some dev feedback on this, because it doesn't appear as though anything mitigates smash, with the exception of defensive cooldowns, but can't be dodged or shielded and now apparently armor rating doesn't mitigate either.

They BUFFED jugg armor rating in tank stance....yet now taking even bigger smashes than before 2.0?

comparing SWTOR 1.7 attack damage values to SWTOR 2.0 attack damage values in isolation is meaningless.

At the very least, you should use a points of damage / target's max health as your units. Health pools got bigger in 2.0 (as did damage numbers and healing numbers) so an attack doing 8k in 2.0 is doing less work than an 8k attack in 1.7.

Perhaps your just trolling

comparing SWTOR 1.7 attack damage values to SWTOR 2.0 attack damage values in isolation is meaningless.

 

At the very least, you should use a points of damage / target's max health as your units. Health pools got bigger in 2.0 (as did damage numbers and healing numbers) so an attack doing 8k in 2.0 is doing less work than an 8k attack in 1.7.

 

Perhaps your just trolling

not trolling, pointing out inconsistencies/possible bugs

A sorc gets smashed for 8k......then a jugg Tank gets smashed for 8k. One has like 2-3k armor, the other has 9-10k armor.

What sense does that make?

I'm glad to see many of my old BC mates are still around

 

Yeah, I was quibbling. If we look only at the total damage of an attack, there is more total damage when the attacker attacks the tank rather than the guardee unless

 

2 * mt >= ms

 

We need to look at the above for both white and yellow damage. I think it is always true for yellow but I don't know the typical white damage mitigation numbers.

 

The bigger picture takes into account how the guardee performs under the two scenarios (free casting vs harrassed). The bigger picture may include a DPS taunting an attacker who starts focusing the tank .

 

Of course we do not get to CHOSE what the attacker does -- if we did we would chose for him to not use any abilities

 

===================

math for 2 * mt >= ms

 

 

let 'd' be the damage of the attack

let 'dg' = 0.95 * d // damage after guard 5% reduction applied

let 'dt' = 0.7 * d // taunt reduction for not attacking the taunter

let 'dtg' = 0.7 * 0.95 * d // attacker is taunted and attacking guardee

 

let 'ms' = mitigation of squishee guardee

let 'mt' = mitigation of the tank

 

 

total damage when taunted attacker attacks guardee:

 

0.5 * dtg * ms + 0.5 * dtg * mt

 

or

 

0.3325 * d * ms + 0.3325 * d * mt

 

total damage when taunted attacker attacks guard

 

d * mt // no 5% guard bonus, no taunt reduction

 

 

if we set these two to be equal and solve for mt we get:

 

 

d * mt = 0.3325 * d * ms + 0.3325 * d * mt

 

0.6675 * d * mt = 0.3325 * d * ms

 

2 * mt = ms // actually 2.00751879699 ...

 

so if the tank's mitigation is 2x (or more) than the guardee's

mitigation we get less total damage if the attacker attacks the tank.

You're thinking too much into it Fitz.

Technically speaking more damage is mitigated when the attacker attacks a guarded target more than when they attack a tank. For 1, there is the 5% damage reduction from Guard and secondly the total damage dealt is passing through 2 sets of defensive stats (the Guarder and the Guardee's). However, the damage mitigation difference is mostly irrelevant because the increase in DPS and Healing your team is putting out free-casting more than makes up for it.

The bottom line is that as a tank you want your team un-harrassed and free-casting, so if they're on you instead of your healers and DPS, it's a good thing.

not trolling, pointing out inconsistencies/possible bugs

 

A sorc gets smashed for 8k......then a jugg Tank gets smashed for 8k. One has like 2-3k armor, the other has 9-10k armor.

 

What sense does that make?

Crit happens.

No but seriously, you will not get hit by an 8k smash if you have a defensive CD popped, and even if you do get hit with one when they're down, it should still be manageable with the 40k hp PvP tanks have. Trust me, I run a PvP tank in Rated Warzones against the best PvPers on the server that are all completely min/maxed. Tanks do fine.

Crit happens.

 

No but seriously, you will not get hit by an 8k smash if you have a defensive CD popped, and even if you do get hit with one when they're down, it should still be manageable with the 40k hp PvP tanks have. Trust me, I run a PvP tank in Rated Warzones against the best PvPers on the server that are all completely min/maxed. Tanks do fine.

yeah not arguing that it's gonna 1shot a tank, just pointing out that the way the damage is mitigated doesn't appear to be working the same as it was before 2.0, which was mitigated primarily by armor.

You're thinking too much into it Fitz.

 

...

 

The bottom line is that as a tank you want your team un-harrassed and free-casting, so if they're on you instead of your healers and DPS, it's a good thing.

We agree on this. I was not so much over thinking it as geeking out at the chance to answer a question using easy math.

We agree on this. I was not so much over thinking it as geeking out at the chance to answer a question using easy math.

On my level 55 vaunguard in full augmented min/maxed level 50 WAR-HERO gear, I average 350k dps and 200k protection in every warzone using Ion-cell and a full tank tree.

My personal bests with the above have been 450k dps with 385k protection.

Its honestly not hard to get 200k protection every match if you are a good tank. Yes your dps will probably be 200-400k while the DPS'ers are around 500-700 on average. But thats ok.

If you're doing like sub 200k DPS and sub 100k protection on a tank class, regardless of gear, you're doing something wrong.

I find that a tank in a wz is a drag on his team without a healer. The protection is almost never enough to compensate for lost dps.

I know I'm late, but soooo this. Even if your team has a healer and he's competent, if the other team is also good, they will shut down your healer and put in the same position as you noted here. It was one of the reasons why I opted for a dps shien build when I was a guardian.

Secondly, the fact that CCs stack in this game makes it real hard to keep healer function unless you have another healer or support protecting the healer. Simply put, a tank is useless in pvp unless there is a healer on the field and the other team doesn't have a strategy to shut your healer down. (or are dumb enough to attack everyone, but the healer) This is not only true in this MMORPG, but any MMORPG in which the tank can't dps or solo pvp.

I know I'm late, but soooo this. Even if your team has a healer and he's competent, if the other team is also good, they will shut down your healer and put in the same position as you noted here. It was one of the reasons why I opted for a dps shien build when I was a guardian.

 

Secondly, the fact that CCs stack in this game makes it real hard to keep healer function unless you have another healer or support protecting the healer. Simply put, a tank is useless in pvp unless there is a healer on the field and the other team doesn't have a strategy to shut your healer down. (or are dumb enough to attack everyone, but the healer) This is not only true in this MMORPG, but any MMORPG in which the tank can't dps or solo pvp.

You rezzed this thread from a year and a half ago for that!?