I hadn't seen much of a problem with this - until last night.

I joined a group for a HM Xeno. I play a tank. One wipe later, and I'm stuck with a 30K+ repair bill.

Umm... no thank you. I'll definitely not be wasting my hard earned credits on performing this vital role until the repair costs are reasonable.

As someone earlier in this thread stated, there is nothing for BW to "look into" or "investigate". You guys are losing subs over this crap while you're "looking around"

This is one of the most ill-thought out decisions I've seen come out of their camp.

I'm just curious as to how many people knew this was a "known bug", the previous repair cost.??

I never knew it was a bug until they did this "fix". And of all the bugs out there, Why fix that?? I didn't see anyone complaining about it....?

I really hope they are not making a cartel item for repairs..........

I really hope they are not making a cartel item for repairs..........

Would you really put it past them? This is EA after all.

This does hammer the casual players much more than the hardcore ones, and it especially nails those who do not have an artificer and cybertech to 400. If you have both of those to 400, PvP regularly, do your weeklies, buy WH gear and Black Hole gear w/comms, RE it all, then sell the molecular stabilizers, it's possible to knock out 2mil or so a week with little effort.

Now, that's assuming you already have all the gear and just need the money to fund your ongoing PvE play. If you need gear or are a new player who doesn't have any credits, it's going to be much harder to get them especially since leveling crew skills takes a lot of time/credits. I'm fortunate in that my guild has bumped up our repair funds significantly for the raiders to compensate for the new costs, but if you're not in a guild that can afford this I can understand why you'd be upset.

Bottom line, people who already have credits and are at the stage where it's easy to make a lot more aren't affected. Those that are trying to reach that point have hit a major set back with these high fees.

Strange I just rode out to let trash kill my 50 IA who is in 49 lvl 126 advanced armour and got a bill for 3800.

 

My gunslinger in 1/3 columi rest tionese (all slots modded) got a bill for 5,300.

 

Seems if you use appropriate level gear it isn't excessive at all.

So the way to avoid such tremendous repair bills is to either not do the content, or fill my inventory with scores of gear? No. Thats not a reasonable solution. Severe penalties like this in an MMO only discourage doing content. Players who are not skilled enough yet get put on blacklists, and the community of the game suffers for it.

So the way to avoid such tremendous repair bills is to either not do the content, or fill my inventory with scores of gear? No. Thats not a reasonable solution. Severe penalties like this in an MMO only discourage doing content. Players who are not skilled enough yet get put on blacklists, and the community of the game suffers for it.

Scores of gear? No one set for doing non-raid stuff only.

One wipe in Mandalorian Raiders with a 27th level mostly orange gear and one legacy headpiece (Consular's something, L10). Except for the legacy piece costs were between 50 and 200cr ea. (expensive) The legacy piece was 1.3k That was waaay out of line. (I can afford it... it's not the credits, it's the principle). Guess I'll have to do buy one of the superugly consular hats and hide-headslot. IMO, that's a cop-out.

You managed to revert the misfeature that benefited the players, so you understand the concept of "revert". Why in blazes did you not revert the "fix" that's costing you customers?

So.. you're not a raider so you're writing from a position of ignorance, conjecture and assumption? Thanks for your opinion. It's all you have and it's just as relevant to the discussion as the turd my dog just laid out in the yard.

If a piece of loot drops for your class/spec, do you pass on it? If you did the OP for the challenge and not the loot, you should. I do not expect that you will pass on the loot, but at least be honest and admit that most raiders raid for loot and not just the challenge.

Instead of complaining that the costs are too high or bugged give them some data to work with.

--> Link to my gear <--

My group has been working on tfb hm 8m for a while now and we have regular deaths while learning the encounters. Before the fix happened my repair costs were 3800-4000 credits per death depending on duration of fight before death. I have not acquired any gear upgrades for weeks now so nothing has changed in my gear but now my repair costs are 9400-9900 per death. This is about a 245% increase in repair cost, I can't believe this is the amount that they had intended to increase repair amount by.

Just my two cents.

A load of CRAP. The so called "work" you are refering to is leveling up. The process of leveling up in itself is fun because it comes with a story that you are playing through. And even the grindy bits themselves have targets & objectives to aspire to.

 

The "work" you are putting in has a real purpose that is a core part of the game (and most of the time it is fun - otherwise the game is a failure). There are rewards and a sense of achievement at the end.

 

Why do we do class quests? To progress through the story and level up which in turn gives us access to better gear and higher level quests. There is a clear line of progression that takes you somewhere and gives you something in return for your hard "work"

 

Im happy to grind dailies in order to have a target bank balance of 5 million credits because that is a target i set of my choosing. I set that target for whatever reason (i want to buy something fancy from the GTN/legacy, i want to send credits to my alt to make things quicker, or im simply scrooge mcduck). Having set the target I can work to that target and have a sense of achievement that my grindy work has accomplished something.

 

The sense of satisfaction of having accomplished the target (whether set by myself or as part of the game) is in fact FUN.

 

You yourself have admitted that grinding dailies is boring and repetitive. (especially when you are sufficiently geared that you dont even have to pay much attention).

 

being forced to grind (work) for credits (a boring and repititive act) in order to be able to afford the repairs after a FP or ops has absolutely no purpose/target/achievement by iteself. Am i supposed to feel good after a week of grinding that I can FINALLY afford to run a NM op without the fear of going bankrupt?

 

That to me is no different from going to the office everyday so that I can get my paycheck which is then used to pay for my house, car, food, etc.

 

A game is (or rather must be) 100% pure FUN & ENTERTAINMENT. Any and all effort/work involved in the game must be fun and entertaining. Otherwise the game has lost its' reason d'etre.

The fact that leveling up and learning the fights for HM's and OP's may be more fun than doing dailies does not make those facets of this game any less "work".

The purpose, the target goal, of doing dailies, or playing the GTN might have been to have that 5 million credit bank balance, now it might simply be to be able to afford the repair costs. There is still a purpose, a target goal. It might not be one you like or even want to acknowledge, but that target goal is still there.

My point still stands, MMO's are all about grinding. Show me an MMO which is 100% fun. I'm not aware of any. Every MMO I know has at least one facet that someone considers work and not fun. So, by your definition, MMO's have no "reason d'etre"?

to all you people who say "there should be a mix of work and fun!" (actually ive only seen one or maybe 2) here is an interesting analogy:

 

If you had a car that required you to get out and clean the oil filter every 10 miles would you rather:

 

(A) adjust your entire schedule/lifestyle to take in to account the extra time and effort in commuting

 

or

 

(B) Scrap the car and get a new one?

 

I thought so...

Here's a different analogy for you:

would most people prefer to:

A) have costs lowered to the point at which they would only have to work only 1 hour a week to afford to do what they consider fun, and be able to spend more time doing the "fun" stuff

OR

B) have costs remain where they are and have to work 40 hours or more a week to be able to afford to do what they consider fun.

I thought so...cool.

I'm just curious as to how many people knew this was a "known bug", the previous repair cost.??

I never knew it was a bug until they did this "fix". And of all the bugs out there, Why fix that?? I didn't see anyone complaining about it....?

 

I really hope they are not making a cartel item for repairs..........

Certainly not on the known issues list that I can recall.

I'd also like to officially state that Stay Classy on POT5 has also suspended progression raiding until this is sorted. Had been going back and forth with it, but after seeing so many other guilds do the same I had to pull the trigger.

One thing I don't understand is how people are saying they just 'increased' the cost for social gear.

I've died twice on my main (Campaign/Dread guard geared Sage in full purple Campaign shells except level 50 orange belt/bracer, all augmented). Her repair cost was about 15k each time. Before the fix her repair cost used to average 4-5k.

That's more than a 3x increase. If the problem was social oranges costing less to repair, then that shouldn't have affected me since I was in full campaign shells both before and after the "fix". If they just fixed it so enhancements were counted then why in the world do enhancements affect my repair rate more than everything else? Even if they also added in repair cost for augments, at the very most I should be at around a 10k repair cost.

I'm willing to eat a 5k repair cost due to silly mistakes new people make, but if you assume an ops group that tries to include new 50s will cause two or three wipes then my 'silly understandable mistake tax' has gone from 8-15k to 30-45k. That is my entire guild repair allowance for a week, and I use that allowance for progression (not that 50k will really help much anymore if I'm eating 15k per wipe).

Which means my choices are 1) do more dailies (not happening; I have other hobbies, work, and am in school. I already have trouble doing Black Hole once or twice a day) or 2) stop running with PuGs and showing newbies the ropes. I like helping people and I love gearing people up, but if the choice is them or fun then I'm going to go with fun.

This change won't hurt me; I have enough credits and I'm sure I'll get used to the price hike in a month or so. It will hurt the new 50s who find themselves kicked from groups because our patience with stupid wipes has deceased proportionally to the repair increase. Assuming they even get groups, since it's just safer to grab a group of guildies I know can faceroll the flashpoints than take a risk of PuGing someone in recruit gear who doesn't know the fights.

Here's a different analogy for you:

 

would most people prefer to:

 

A) have costs lowered to the point at which they would only have to work only 1 hour a week to afford to do what they consider fun, and be able to spend more time doing the "fun" stuff

 

OR

 

B) have costs remain where they are and have to work 40 hours or more a week to be able to afford to do what they consider fun.

 

 

I thought so...cool.

didn't you just prove the other person's point?

do you realize that the whole point of industrial revolution and our constant race for improved technology is to reduce out workload while increasing rewards, right? practically everything we strive for is making our lives easier. its what drives the progress. we get education to get better jobs that will allow us to make more money in less hours.

there is NO inherent virtue in working harder for fewer rewards. its certainly not fun. there's nothing wrong with it, if that's what works for you, but its certainly NOT better or something to strive for.

there's this confusion again of tediousness vs challenge. its not the same thing you know. tedious is repeating the same simple task over and over. it requires a minimum of concentration and skill. grinding for credits for a lot of people is tedious. challenging is figuring out a tricky mechanic of a boss , learning to work as a team. challenge is killing a pvp opponent of equal or better skill/gear. challenge is good. tedium is bad.

I dont know about you but if im grouped with people under 19k dps/heal or under 22k tank im just exiting group and opening finder again. Im not going to fund someone learning process on ops or flashpoints with my money until someone will pay me 10k after each death.

Month ago i bought gtc 60 so got around one month left. You can check i wont pay single penny until this idiotic prices will go out.

I dont know about you but if im grouped with people under 19k dps/heal or under 22k tank im just exiting group and opening finder again. Im not going to fund someone learning process on ops or flashpoints with my money.

Why do people place so much value on HP?

didn't you just prove the other person's point?

do you realize that the whole point of industrial revolution and our constant race for improved technology is to reduce out workload while increasing rewards, right? practically everything we strive for is making our lives easier. its what drives the progress. we get education to get better jobs that will allow us to make more money in less hours.

there is NO inherent virtue in working harder for fewer rewards. its certainly not fun. there's nothing wrong with it, if that's what works for you, but its certainly NOT better or something to strive for.

 

there's this confusion again of tediousness vs challenge. its not the same thing you know. tedious is repeating the same simple task over and over. it requires a minimum of concentration and skill. grinding for credits for a lot of people is tedious. challenging is figuring out a tricky mechanic of a boss , learning to work as a team. challenge is killing a pvp opponent of equal or better skill/gear. challenge is good. tedium is bad.

I think we can agree that most people would prefer to do more of the "fun" stuff as opposed to working. However, the world, and MMO's do not work that way. Both require work, often tedious, boring work that provides no challenge, in order to be able to do the "fun" stuff.

Some people find leveling their 9th alt to be tedious and boring, since they have done all the quests previously, but they want to play that sniper in the endgame raids, so they buckle down and do the work to get that sniper to 50 and then gear him up. That's as much "work" for them as doing a few dailies one day to be able to afford to run that raid another day might be for someone else.

Before you say that the player leveling up his 9th alt has a definite goal, or purpose to work toward(having that new 50 to take to raids), so does anyone wanting to be able to afford the higher repair costs(being able to afford the higher repair costs).

Why do people place so much value on HP?

Because if dps got 18k hp or tank got 20k it means he got columi stuff without augments or wrong mods and that means he is new and most probably dont know much and will do stupid mistakes im not planning to fund. Sorry but i wont spend my private time on doing dailies just to spend it on repairs because of someone else mistakes.

snip .........

there's this confusion again of tediousness vs challenge. its not the same thing you know. tedious is repeating the same simple task over and over. it requires a minimum of concentration and skill. grinding FP's and OP's for a lot of people is tedious. challenging is figuring out a tricky mechanic of a boss for the first kill , learning to work as a team. challenge is killing a pvp opponent of equal or better skill/gear. challenge is good. tedium is bad.

Changed this for you. To me tedium is running the same FP's/OP's over and over again, one persons tedium does not equal everyone elses.

This thread seems to keep changing in focus.

Now the debate seems to be "MMOs should require x amount of work for y amount of fun, if you can't accept it don't play."

I would point out that Ratajack contradicted his own argument at one point by pointing out that raids and flashpoints could be considered work as well.

The work/fun debate is entirely in the eye of the beholder, if you don't mind doing dailies then bully for you. I absolutely despise them, for reasons I've already given in a post that seems to have been mostly ignored.

As to the primary motivation for doing content, that's an ancillary argument. I don't care if people are motivated by gear or by social interaction, or by enjoyment of the content therein. (I'm inclined to agree that on some level, the loot rewards are always a motivating factor, I'd certainly like to have something to show for the time I spend doing the content.)

The heart of the issue for me will still continue to be that repair costs should not be used as a gating mechanism for content. I could argue that Bioware already seemed to agree with this, since way back in 1.2 they decided that prohibitively expensive repair costs were not in the best interest of the game.

As for the argument that you need to have some slog to make the fun more enjoyable... That's a bit of a paper tiger.

Nor is it really germane to what the actual issue is with this "fix."

With nothing but the patch notes to go off of, it's reasonable to experience a 33-50% increase in repair costs. People are purportedly experiencing repair costs increases from 100% to 400%. That screams to me that something is not working properly and needs to be fixed.

If something is broken, then any sort of argument about "stop complaining, and grind dailies" is vapid at best. We need to point out to the devs that something is not working as intended and needs looking into. If you disagree then something is ultimately wrong with your perception of how things should work.

If this change is working as intended then their patch notes were not accurate and need to be updated. In which case I'd probably like to know the underlying reasoning behind the decision that repair costs were too low and needed to be raised by such a large increment.

Once that happens, depending on the outcome the debate can resume. If it is a bug, and it gets fixed then hooray. The people complaining were correct. If the patch notes were inaccurate we can resume the debate about gating content with repair costs.

Because if dps got 18k hp or tank got 20k it means he got columi stuff without augments or wrong mods and that means he is new and most probably dont know much and will do stupid mistakes im not planning to fund. Sorry but i wont spend my private time on doing dailies just to spend it on repairs because someone did a mistake.

Alright so my Juggy DPS with only 17830 health that can deal 1360 DPS (Vengeance Spec) and is in full BH (Implants & Earpeices + PvP Relics), all but the belt and bracers, is not worthy enough of being in group finder?

I haven't been raiding lately so this doesn't affect me personally, but the first thing that came into my mind about this issue is that it benefits the cartel market.

If there are too many credits floating around the game, many players are more likely to just spend in-game currency on cartel legacy unlocks and gear. Soaking up some of that cash with extra repairs makes people turn to the real world to purchase things.

 

My 2:sy_auction:.

Exactly. They reduced repair costs when they introduced legacy, because legacy brought in huge credit sinks for the population that had wealth over 1-2 million. With the introduction of the Cartel market, $10 can buy most of the legacy unlocks, bypassing that particular credit sink. Moreover, players selling cartel packs are making a killing. So there's more money being generated, without an appropriate sink to keep the game economy and inflation under control. They discussed this in the Guild Summit. They track these things, and adjust them as needed.

Now that players are generating so much more revenue, with dailies, cartel items, etc., the credit sink was deemed necessary. This being the justification beyond that the reduction was bugged and not accounting for the quality of mods.

I ran Xeno 16m SM and 16m HM, and paid approx 3,000 credits, on each character I ran it on, in repairs.

My repairs for running dailies in Ilum and killing each of the open world bosses 3 times were under 400 credits.

This is in full Campaign gear.

I ran a flash point in my Columi geared sentinel, repairs were 6,197 credits.

So, with my dailies on one character (approx 400-500k credits, I enjoy working for currency, and seeing my balance reach over several million..) and selling three Rakata implants (daily commendations - sold for approx. 160k each) and selling the mods (4 enhancements, 16k-18k each), I am more than covered.

Too little too late. It cost you a subscription. Mine. Too little communication. Too much CM Store. Your employers ruined a potentially great Star Wars MMORPG with their unbridled short term greed, lack of communication and out right lies concerning the switch to F2P. Never again EA/ Bioware. Never again!

Bye!

/wave

Why do people place so much value on HP?

It's the first indicator of a person's gear, spec, etc. All level fifties have the opportunity to start out in Tionese gear. If they haven't made that attempt, either A) are not aware, or B) would rather someone else carry them. As a Tank and Healer, gear is the first thing I look for while grouping in a pug. For a tank, it's exponentially worse in group environments due to us being the meat shields.

With the current cost of repairs, if I see one person in greens or blues, I'll notify them why I'm leaving. It's extremely harsh to take that approach, but I won't fund someone else's learning curve until this issue is rectified. This is part of the problem with the current state of the game.