I'm wondering whether to spec into the Watchman or Combat tree(for sentinel:csw_bluesaber:). My main focus will be PvE, but I will do occasional PvP (what fun is a class without doing some PvP:)), and Watchman doesn't really appeal to me (except the-heal-from-DoT-burn part). Combat looks like the type of tree that I'd have fun with, but maybe it won't really work that well for me (for doing PvE with a little PvP)? I've been playing with Combat up until now (lvl 25), but I've never tried Watchman. I'm most worried about playing something that I'll like that'll still be effective and work well. So, please leave comments and suggestions (I'm open to ideas:))

The best advice I can give you is try them both and see for your self which one you like best.

 

Combat is better at pvp then Watchmen is and both are good for high end pve. But that's not to say you can't run 2 different specs one for pvp and one for pve. I've talked with a sentinel that ran 3 different specs just for pve raiding depending on the boss fight. I run watchmen and I enjoy it quite a bit but that doesn't mean everyone will enjoy that game play style. The only one that can tell for sure if you will enjoy something like watchmen is you.

I also want to know which tree is more effective for my (earlier mentioned) playstyle. I don't really like switching trees all the time, though( but that's a good idea for specific situations).

 

Thanks for the advice!

Edited May 31, 2013 by flashblue

Your listed playstyle is just "PVE with a little bit of PVP," it doesn't tell us much about how you like fights to operate or what kind of abilities you enjoy. If that's all the info on the table, combat is probably your better choice.

 

At endgame, I run watchman, and put out a fair bit more single-target damage than I do in combat spec, but that's just because of how I play. There are combat specs that can beat me as well; both are viable.

I also want to know which tree is more effective for my (earlier mentioned) playstyle. I don't really like switching trees all the time, though( but that's a good idea for specific situations).

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

It really doesn't matter. Both are great for PVE and both are solid for someone who occasionally PUG PVPs.

 

You are only lvl 25 so I'd compare them when you hit a higher lvl (post 40) to see which one you like to play more.

 

Also, what type of PVE content are you looking to do?

Edited May 31, 2013 by stuffystuffs

For PvE, I try to do every flashpoint(when I get to the suggested level),and do some heroics for the gear, and, of course, my storyline.

Do not use combat for pve it is a pvp only spec. You will have far better survivability with watchman, it has better interrupts high dps and self heals and combat has none of those and its a far inferior spec to level with.

Please for the love of TFSM ignore what Kalaar says.

 

Combat is perfectly viable in PVE, so is Annihilation.

 

Combat from what I have heard in end game PVE (I don't raid on my sentinel at all) is more beneficial to faster target switching and bursting down adds whereas Annihilation ramps up slightly slower, due to the burn mechanics, Juyu form stacking (if it were to drop off in) and the Merciless Slash buff.

 

Now, these DO NOT mean that Annihilation is terrible in PVE across the board. Far from it. Get into a fight where you can actually get Annihilation rolling in PVE and it is a true beast, so is Combat as well. Both specs are quite close in overall DPS I believe actually.

 

I though cannot answer at all to the PVP side, since I don't touch the stuff in the slightest.

Do not use combat for pve it is a pvp only spec. You will have far better survivability with watchman, it has better interrupts high dps and self heals and combat has none of those and its a far inferior spec to level with.

 

Know how I know you've never read the Combat tree?

I find Combat easier for levelling up. As you grow, you encounter hordes of weak mobs who are easily mowed down by Combat's strong single attacks. Side note, they are mowed down even easier by Focus and its AoE.

 

The biggest difference in the feel though, is the fact that Combat is a lot... faster. You have one attack ignoring GCD (two, if you don't give up on Riposte), and Zen gives you 30% Alacrity lowering your GCD to 1s for 6 attacks. There are also some procs you need to watch. From a casual player's view, I felt uncomfortable playing Combat. I had to watch my buff bar and hotbar a lot to see if buffs are ready and if abilities are ready, plus the regular resource management... It is awesome when you look at Combat Sentinel fighting, but not easy to be one. As a Combat Sentinel, you actually feel like you deal tons of damage. You see huge crits jumping out in your PS window, you use Dispatch every 20 seconds. Huge numbers popping from enemy's head.

 

 

Watchman, on the other hand, is incredibily strong when you focus on one strong target. I find it better for Flashpoints, because it burns the bigger targets with ease and if you learn how to deal your DoTs, the weak trash burns nicely too.

 

Watchman goes by steady 1,5s GCD, with no GCD ignoring attacks (one, if you keep Riposte), there is one proc to watch, and your character makes an impossible-to-not-hear sound whenever it procs, all you need to watch is Merciless (the first stack or two are easy to miss, you'd need to start stacking again if that happens), Zen activation and resource management (which also seems easier on Watchman to me). This gives me less time watching my buffs and hotbar, and gives me more battlefield overview and better reactions to surroundings. Only thing that crashes the feel is that you don't see that huge damage numbers popping around, you just burn stuff for lots of small ticks with occasional "heavy" hit, which still looks negligible when compared to Combat's hits.

 

 

I went Combat to level 4x, and I easily killed every mob the game put in front of me. Respecced to Watchman before getting to 50's though, because I would prefer to be Watchman in the endgame and I wanted to learn how it works and feels. Now at 5x I would totally reccomend any endgame casual to roll Watchman. But that is my personal feeling and I definitely see all reasoning behind Combat spec because it is really awesome too.

They are both playable in PvE and PvP. You should be aware that you need to execute attacks faster in combat (aka button mashing specc) and watch out for 2 procs to optimize rotation. Watchman is slower and almost exclusively played in a priority system, apart from the opener there is nothing remotely close to a fixed rotation, so you have to be good in deciding what to do next on the spot in any given situation.

 

Decide which of those requirements seems easier for you: For any well played combat sent will beat a mediocre watchman sent - and vice versa...

Yeah I have to agree with what most of the others are saying. I have a level 50 sent that I played all of the trees with and finally ended up choosing the watchmen tree. However...I have a 55 guardian on another server, and missed playing a sent so I have started over again, and have a 27 sentinel now, and I am running in the Combat Tree. Where as before I was unable to really do a good job with the combat tree, now I find that I enjoy it quite a bit.

 

The real major thing that I notice about Combat, is....it really feels like it's ALOT of damage now! Not over a time period. Whereas in the Watchmen Tree it always felt like I was always working on getting cauterize going, with the Combat tree I don't really feel like it's that critical. I use it still, but it just doesn't feel like it's a main staple of this tree. You get some advantages with the combat tree that you don't get with the Watchmen, such as dual wield mastery, and as well, stances are there for a reason. If I need the healing affects of cauterize, I simply switch into my Juyo stance, bust zen and hit cauterize and I get that healing affect, just as if I was in the Watchmen tree. Is it as effective? I don't believe so, but some healing beats no healing. If I feel like I need to be really more guarded, I might use the Shi-Cho stance, or if I want that extra random strike I get from the combat tree, I will pop the Ataru stance. It just for me it feels like you just kill stuff so much faster in the Combat Tree. Of course the watchmen tree does have one thing I love more than any other skill, and that's the 0 meter force leap. It comes in handy. Force leap is a, (at least for me), huge focus builder. So being able to utilize that at just about any range really keeps you banging away at the bad guys. So keep in mind what is really unique about Star Wars is that a lot this game depends on your personal play style. When this game first launched a lot of sents were talking about going might armoring, and crit for everything, and they were doing really, really well. I was struggling BIG TIME! I switched to the Guardian Armoring for the added endurance and went strength and crit with my mods and enhancements, and for me that worked really well. I was able to survive long enough that I could kill the bad guys. Now after having played the guardian class as well, I find that I don't need that guardian armoring anymore, and can run more like everyone else, and I am seeing a real change in the amount of damage I am doing now as opposed to then. So your style play is going to have a huge influence on what tree you spec, how you gear....everything really. Just experiment with them. I used to play with a guy who went Focus, and ripped everything up. Saw him take a boss that was 4 levels above him, and he did it before I could get there and help out. Guy was amazing. So it really doesn't matter what tree, it just matters how good you are with it.

sorry if i sound stupid, but just starting my force-user chars. . .is the ataru form strike free? or does it use up time that i could have spent using a more powerful attack?

It's free, i.e. it doesn't take an extra gcd.

 

However, it can be irritating to see your character perform the Ataru strike, as it seems he is still busy and therefore you tend to wait a split second too long to press the button for your next attack in time - if you're not familiar with that visual effect.

 

This is especially painful in combat as high APM is the key to good DPS in that specc.

I've never payed attention to the Ataru animation, since it's the GCD that matters.

 

Anyway, Combat is far better for switching targets quickly (Adds in Thrasher, Anomalies on the TFB, etc.) whereas Watchman requires you to be more diligent to keep Juyo and Merciless stacked. However, if you can keep those stacked, I'd say stick with Watchman. Because of how RNG dependent Combat is, I feel that Watchman has more reliable damage. But if you can play combat exceptionally well, you can easily make it a wash between the two.

well, for flashpoints (and maybe heroics-a little), i tend to want to take out the adds ASAP. So i'm leaning towards the combat tree (also, the things it gives me are more appealing (for me)). but i think once i can get the last move in either tree, i'll switch specs and try them both out compared to each other (which one does more damage in like, 30 seconds or a minute, which one I feel more comfortable with, etc.).

thanks for all the helpful comments!

I've never payed attention to the Ataru animation, since it's the GCD that matters.

 

Anyway, Combat is far better for switching targets quickly (Adds in Thrasher, Anomalies on the TFB, etc.) whereas Watchman requires you to be more diligent to keep Juyo and Merciless stacked. However, if you can keep those stacked, I'd say stick with Watchman. Because of how RNG dependent Combat is, I feel that Watchman has more reliable damage. But if you can play combat exceptionally well, you can easily make it a wash between the two.

 

For Watchman, target switching by itself isn't much of a problem, as long as you can maintain your Juyo and Merciless stacks. One example would be EC Kephess, where you end up switching to a ton of different targets, but you pretty much always have a target in front of you, and Watchman can still put out really good numbers.

 

The real problem comes from fights with stop-and-go phases. Even if you only have one boss to kill, if you're forced to stop fighting for 10 or more seconds, you'll probably lose your stacks, and that just cripples Watchman's dps. Combat is much less vulnerable to dps loss in those kinds of fights.

Personally, I *LOVE* Combat. Never really got into Watchman but I can understand why others like it.

 

If you are good at Combat you will get good numbers in any fight whereas even the best Watchman Sentinel will lose a tonne of DPS if there is appreciable forced downtime. Further, when dealing with shorter fights (read: Flashpoints) Combat is just starting to drop off as the boss dies while Watchman is just getting going. If you are in a situation that you can't leap Combat wins out as well.

 

That said, as a tank, I cringe a little when I see a Combat Sentinel in group. They are the burstiest class out and a 'good' one can make the tanks job a nightmare. I really like the bursty and somewhat chaotic playstyle of the spec. Give them both a shot and see how you find each one. It is important when trying Combat that you remember it isn't a 'normal' spec though. You essentially alternate between building Focus and then dumping it all when you have Precision Slash available whereas other specs are much more 'constant'.

 

EDIT: Just saw your post about more damage in 30-60s. That's Combat hands down.

Edited June 16, 2013 by grallmate

Not understanding some things in this post:

If you are good at Combat you will get good numbers in any fight whereas even the best Watchman Sentinel will lose a tonne of DPS if there is appreciable forced downtime.

Why? If there's downtime, you're still doing damage with your dots as Watchman. With Combat, you're doing zero damage.

Further, when dealing with shorter fights (read: Flashpoints) Combat is just starting to drop off as the boss dies while Watchman is just getting going. If you are in a situation that you can't leap Combat wins out as well.

Why would you be in a situation where you can't leap as a Watchman sentinel, though? Leap is 0 range for Watchman and its a shorter CD.

 

Besides that I agree with you about damage. On TORParse Combat seems to be parsing consistently higher than Watchman. I run Carnage (Combat) on my marauder and its my favorite.

Not understanding some things in this post:

 

Why? If there's downtime, you're still doing damage with your dots as Watchman. With Combat, you're doing zero damage.

 

If there is enough downtime for Merciless stacks to fall off (and Juyo as a result) you're back at square one winding up again. Combat loves forced downtime since you'd normally only be using fillers between Precision windows in that time anyway. It also lets the ICD on HoJ tick down so you can go straight back into back to back PS windows when you get back on target.

 

Why would you be in a situation where you can't leap as a Watchman sentinel, though? Leap is 0 range for Watchman and its a shorter CD.

 

Besides that I agree with you about damage. On TORParse Combat seems to be parsing consistently higher than Watchman. I run Carnage (Combat) on my marauder and its my favorite.

 

Ops Chief has cover so can't be leaped to. I dunno if its still the case by phase 2 TFB also used to be immune to leap. Losing access to it means you lose 4 Focus generation every 12 seconds.

Ops Chief has cover so can't be leaped to. I dunno if its still the case by phase 2 TFB also used to be immune to leap. Losing access to it means you lose 4 Focus generation every 12 seconds.

 

Chief drops his cover every now and then, if you're quick enough to hit leap right then you can pretty much use it as usual. After his knockback you do TST while running to him, usually you're in melee range for zealous strike/strike by the next GCD or leap becomes available anyway.

 

On TFB leap is now always available.

 

Keeping up stacks: If you know the fights well enough, you know when to delay your Merciless come the end of a phase, so it's your last attack before target switch/fighting pause.

 

Exception: If you're too fast with Olok's droids on S&V you may actually have a problem, though you can still ask the raid to leave the killing blow on the remaining droid to you. But if you're too fast there, a little loss of dps on the watchman will hardly be a problem anyway :-)

 

Plus: On Dread Guards Nightmare your healers will thank you for every tiny little bit of healing done, I'd definitely recommend Watchman there. Especially since Watchman healing is done without sacrificing dps, which is just as important in that fight, whereas e.g. sage Dpses who theoretically could help out healing, simply can't afford to do it, as you need every single GCD on the DPSes for - surprise! - dps! ;-)

Edited June 17, 2013 by Ardarell_Solo

Just hit 45 with my Sent. I've tried both Watchman and Combat and have to say atm I love combat. I found watchman felt more survivable, especially before Doc, but after I figured out the rotations and what Procs to look for, combat became A LOT of fun. I feel like a buzzsaw cutting through butter. Still with all the different bosses and fight situations in game, its probably a good idea to be familiar with both specs. You can respec to either without haveing to change gear, which is a plus over most classes.

It's free, i.e. it doesn't take an extra gcd.

 

However, it can be irritating to see your character perform the Ataru strike, as it seems he is still busy and therefore you tend to wait a split second too long to press the button for your next attack in time - if you're not familiar with that visual effect.

 

This is especially painful in combat as high APM is the key to good DPS in that specc.

 

Lol, I button mash, regardless of GCD or animation, seems to work best.

Good discussion exactly what I was looking for I recently move my sentinel to my legacy via the server transfer and I'd like to level him this weekend. Any one have build/priority they'd like to share for both watchman and combat? Or links to such advice?

You will want Valor (2/2) and Focused Slash (3/3) in the Watchman tree and Steadfast (3/3) and Defensive Forms (2/2) regardless of whether you end up focusing on the Watchman or Combat trees. That maxes your Centering generation, helps with focus management for either tree, and gets you a chunk of Accuracy that you'll definitely need. I'd also recommend that you take Dual Wield mastery (3/3) even if you go Watchman.

 

My Sent is a Watchman and in addition to those I took Defensive Rolls (2/2) in the combat tree for survivability and making myself easier on heals. Others will argue that you should reduce AOE damage via positioning instead and put those 2 points in Insight (Focus tree) for additional burn damage. I think both are valid options and depend on your preference.

 

There's really nothing in the second tier of Watchman that you'd want if you decide to go Combat, but if you want to get a feel for Watchman before making a final decision you'll want Juyo (3/3), Merciless Zeal (2/2) and Overload Saber (1/1). The equivalent for Combat would be to push up to Ataru form (1/1). And actually there are a number of really fun things in either tree shortly thereafter, so you may want to bounce back and forth a bit longer. Have fun!