All bosses on Heroic and Nightmare have enrage timers, yet you provide no combat log, or damage meters? How does a raid leader evaluate the raid? Has there been a response to this that I couldn't find or are they staying in the dark about this obvious miss?

 

Thanks.

inb4 "dont you like a challenge?!"

"go back to wow"

etcetc

I would really like some way to record how much damage I did over a period of time so I can compare it to other stretches of time and decide which way is best for myself. It's really hard to figure out which way to do damage is best when all I have to go on are numbers popping up.

How does damage meters reduce the challenge?

I would love Damage Meter's for personal use but at the sametime I'm hoping Damage Meters dont make it to the game, not everyone is going to play at top skill even with dmg meters or w/e and with Damage Meters others use those to call out people and make fun of them, I hate being in a group and having to listen to someone complain about another persons DPS just being Terrible... we all play this game to have fun... and Dmg Meters alot of time are abused

I would love Damage Meter's for personal use but at the sametime I'm hoping Damage Meters dont make it to the game, not everyone is going to play at top skill even with dmg meters or w/e and with Damage Meters others use those to call out people and make fun of them, I hate being in a group and having to listen to someone complain about another persons DPS just being Terrible... we all play this game to have fun... and Dmg Meters alot of time are abused

 

Then don't use them? I can be an option turned on or off, but it makes analyzing fights, specs, equipment, classes, rotations, really anything, impossible.

just read the area signed as meters,* as well as the top*

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1077034#post1077034

 

enough said.

Edited January 3, 2012 by ZielAkros

Anyone that says they do not want any type of dps meters in the game is either very bad or very confused.

 

Dps/Heal meters - Seperate the bad players from the good.

 

It shows you...

who is active the most during a fight

who is taking the most damage and from what

who is healing the most

the abilities people are using and how often

etc...

 

Looking at the results of a dps meter will show you many things about a player and whether they know what they are doing or not. So if you do not want this in the game then clearly you are not a endgame player or have any idea what endgame is about.

 

If players are bad and dont understand their class well they shouldn't hold back a guild from clearing content and should be exposed.

 

As far as everything else, you can live without most of it and just adapt. Good players will.

Damage meters do give certain people the power to ridicule others or brag (even if they were actually intentionally sabotaging a boss fight to improve their own DPS).

 

I still would like damage meters in the game. Here are a few reasons.

 

1. If possible, certain people will sit back and leech loot with the bare minimum of effort. I want to find out if this is happening.

 

2. Sometimes your group is failing and nobody knows what's being done wrong. Damage meters (+healing meters and damage taken) can help you find out. I have seen many examples of this being done in a mature way, where nobody was ridiculed or yelled at. For example, it may help you realize that you misunderstood some mechanics if you can tell your group is being annihilated by a specific attack.

 

3. I want to be able to measure my own abilities somehow. I usually did quite well in WoW, and I got there by paying attention and using damage meters/healing meters to make sure I stayed sharp. I would like to have that option in SWTOR.

 

4. Maybe this is the same as the previous point, but it would be extremely helpful to be able to measure your DPS while you are learning your rotation.

 

5. I like looking at statistics. Sue me.

 

For now, it's refreshing to be in SWTOR without the massive addon abuse (LF1 DPS for SFK, must have 50 gazillion GS). But as more people reach endgame, I bet we're only going to have more requests for damage meters.

Edited January 3, 2012 by thecoffeecup

I would very much like to have some sort of damage/heal meter in the game, without an announce feature. I don't need to stroke my epeen, but I do rely quite heavily on damage meters to improve my performance and fine-tune my rotation.

well this is new and original.

I am playing wow for like 4 years.I couldnt stand doing the same things over and over again so i was really excited when swtor gone on air !

I am lvling an imperial agent atm but the only problem i have noticed that cannot help us improve our skill is the combat log and especially the dmg/healing meters.They are really improtant in a 4man or in a raid because they help the raid leaders to see who's slacking and not paying attention and for the rest of the raid to help them improve their dmg/heal.

Its a way to see what is the proper setup for the raids and the best way to progress.

So i think Game developers should consider it really seriously to put those meteres in the next patch

In addition, no combat log makes it damn near impossible to find out what killed you...

/signed in support of meters.

 

/mourn to all the baddies that are currently thinking they escaped to a game and wouldn't be found out...

There are no good reasons to add damage meters and/or a combat log.

 

This is my response to the reasons I've heard so far.

 

1. Hitting enrage timers

 

If you hit an enrage timer and you're close, tell everyone to play harder. If your miles off, sub a healer and add an extra dps or come back when you've geared up.

 

2. Evaluating player performance

 

A bit of fight awareness from senior players will normally pick up anyone slacking off completely. I can't do it because I heal and am either looking at health bars or fight mechanics. Again, if you're close to an enrage, chances are no-one is slacking off and it's just a case of telling people to play harder.

 

3. Evaluating your own performance. Min/maxing.

 

I hate min/maxing as a concept but I know alot of people love it. If you're a min/maxer, chances are you've already analyzed the gameplay enough that your pretty close to what you'd be if you had a damage meter and a combat log.

 

4. What killed me? I need a combat log

 

My reply is you stood somewhere you shouldn't or an ability wasn't interrupted or you weren't healed. Simple fight awareness from yourself and others will fix it.

 

Now for the negatives and my reasons for not wanting damage meters or a combat log.

 

1. Min/maxing

 

Players that min/max inevitably drive the community into what should be done and what shouldn't. This is why we see forum posts from players asking "How should I spec?" "What rotation should I use?" I find it sad that people can't or won't work the game out for themselves and would rather be spoonfed by min/maxing game analysists. Being told how to play removes a hueg portion of fun from the game and it's not rocket science.

 

2. Fotm.

 

I see posts by players asking "Which class is the highest single target dps?" or "Which class is best for whatever type of healing?". Again, this is just sad. As soon a class appears highest on damage meters, players will flock to that class.

 

3. Combat log. Players asking for nerfs/buffs

 

A damage meter will expose the combat log. As soon as the combat log is exposed, we will see a thousand posts from players saying "I got hit for X from Y ability, it must be nerfed" or "Class X is higher than me on damage meters, please nerf them". I laugh at posts by players asking for nerfs and buffs when no-one has any data to back it up. Game balance should never be driven by the playerbase. It should be handled by BW.

There are no good reasons to add damage meters and/or a combat log.

 

This is my response to the reasons I've heard so far.

 

1. Hitting enrage timers

 

If you hit an enrage timer and you're close, tell everyone to play harder. If your miles off, sub a healer and add an extra dps or come back when you've geared up.

 

Really? Really?!? You haven't played hard or nightmare I'm guessing, or raided ever.

2. Evaluating player performance

 

A bit of fight awareness from senior players will normally pick up anyone slacking off completely. I can't do it because I heal and am either looking at health bars or fight mechanics. Again, if you're close to an enrage, chances are no-one is slacking off and it's just a case of telling people to play harder.

 

Just a case of telling people to play harder eh? LOL

3. Evaluating your own performance. Min/maxing.

 

I hate min/maxing as a concept but I know alot of people love it. If you're a min/maxer, chances are you've already analyzed the gameplay enough that your pretty close to what you'd be if you had a damage meter and a combat log.

How exactly have these minmaxers analyzed gameplay without a single tool to do so?

4. What killed me? I need a combat log

 

My reply is you stood somewhere you shouldn't or an ability wasn't interrupted or you weren't healed. Simple fight awareness from yourself and others will fix it.

This game is very buggy, and no, standing in something is NOT the only answer. For example the hard mode Revan bug would be easier to figure out with a log, etc.

No DPS meter means no way of knowing what spec, or skill rotation is best.

Sure, some people will argue "play how you like it". With such attitude, any kind of PVE content means it'll be impossible with bad specs, or trivial with good ones.

I dont get why people are afraid to be outed by a DPS meter as slackers ... if you are a good player, then you should be able to find out good specs/rotations and a DPS meter would help you improve by a small margin.

If you're an average player, and didnt find out a good spec/rotation, then a DPS meter will help you notice it, and point you towards a better way of playing.

 

I'm an average player, and i need to improve.

well i would evaluate it like this. if you kill the boss before he enrages, you are doing enough dps. if you dont, then you are not doing enough dps.

 

if people die, then the healer either isnt good enough, or isnt geared enough.

 

if the tank cant hold aggro or cant survive no matter what the healer does, then the tank isnt good enough or isnt geared enough.

 

you dont need meters if you complete the challenge. if you dont complete it does it really matter, you either keep trying or you give up. never did think raiding was hard, just a timesink for raid leaders to keep up with everything but hard, no, raiding is easy, just do your job and it all goes well.

A bit inaccurate, but for now go find yourself a mob with 10K health and have a buddy time how long it takes you to kill it.

well i would evaluate it like this. if you kill the boss before he enrages, you are doing enough dps. if you dont, then you are not doing enough dps.

 

if people die, then the healer either isnt good enough, or isnt geared enough.

 

if the tank cant hold aggro or cant survive no matter what the healer does, then the tank isnt good enough or isnt geared enough.

 

you dont need meters if you complete the challenge. if you dont complete it does it really matter, you either keep trying or you give up. never did think raiding was hard, just a timesink for raid leaders to keep up with everything but hard, no, raiding is easy, just do your job and it all goes well.

 

Thank you very much. Well phrased, plainly spoken, excellent post.

Easy solution, you see the dmg above your head its sent over the NIC make a local layer between your game and the server and parse the data yourself.

There's a simple solution. They don't need a real time meter like in WoW. Just use the PVP system of a battle report at the end of boss fights in operations. It would show you damage done and taken, plus healing done and taken. It's not a live meter that people stare at the entire time while they stand in aoe, and it would show you if someone isn't pulling their weight.

 

The best part is the system is in place already, it would just need to be utilized in operations as well as PVP.

All bosses on Heroic and Nightmare have enrage timers, yet you provide no combat log, or damage meters? How does a raid leader evaluate the raid? Has there been a response to this that I couldn't find or are they staying in the dark about this obvious miss?

 

Thanks.

 

I could not agree more, as someone who raid leads - this is by far my largest gripe.

Odds are bioware doesn't want to put in Combat logs atm because it will expose more bugs in boss fights.

 

Anyone a serious raider and make it to HM/NM Eternity Vault?

 

Well the first boss' single target rocket randomly decides when its going to bug and shot someone.

 

It's avoidable with a little luck (and/or dmg reduction CD) but for the most part it will shot someone through a Sorc Static barrier (which is probably close to 7k absorb)

 

In the end, I don't see them releasing a CBL for quite sometime. I mean it did take them close to a month to fix a bugged title....

In addition, no combat log makes it damn near impossible to find out what killed you...

 

I think we spend more time in raiding trying to figure out what killed us on NM then we do raiding!