sorc dps is admittedly a fun challenge in this meta

And yet you still manage to out DPS everyone whatever classes are present in the WZ heh

And yet you still manage to out DPS everyone whatever classes are present in the WZ heh

It's the fluff damage from chain lightning /death field and DOT attacks, not the effective single target damage that all other classes are capable of.

DPS of Lightning is low and survavibility is down,I do not understand why madness and corruption and vise versa for sages is only looked into it by the devs.

simple in my opinion this shows that the balancing team don't play the game at all only and balancing stuff only by numbers they see on somekind of 100% useless sheet ( without caring where those numbers are coming from and why )

bassicaly the balancing team of this game is Blindly balancing classes without barely knowing anything how they perform....

simple in my opinion this shows that the balancing team don't play the game at all only and balancing stuff only by numbers they see on somekind of 100% useless sheet ( without caring where those numbers are coming from and why )

 

bassicaly the balancing team of this game is Blindly balancing classes without barely knowing anything how they perform....

They clearly have not looked at the single-target damage by class. Sorc's AOE and DOT total damage gives a false impression.

Sorc is not that bad it seems bad if you focus on 1v1, but has a team player a Sorc is good to have.

In MMOs 1v1 is not supposed to be balanced, 1v1 balance is a player myth.

Sorc is not that bad it seems bad if you focus on 1v1, but has a team player a Sorc is good to have.

 

In MMOs 1v1 is not supposed to be balanced, 1v1 balance is a player myth.

Is dps sorc good to have on your ranked pvp team?

Is dps sorc just as good to have on your 8 player team as sniper or merc? or mara? or operative? or jugg?

I think we all know the answer....

I see a lot of sorc-trashing in this thread. I've been leveling a madness sorc just for the fun of it (up to level 66 now), and admittedly I don't do a lot of DPS. It's actually common with the way I play, that I do more healing than I do DPS in a match. Plus I'm learning to kite better.

But in 8s? I feel like my utility more than makes up for my crappy DPS. I save w/ a quick bubble and some off healing my team mate who is taking on 2 of them and doing the dps for me. I have my god-bubble to keep a node just that bit longer to wait for respawns to get there and keep it (plus, it acts as an AOE distract half the time - dps really can't seem to help themselves standing around doing nothing, waiting for the bubble to go down). Knockback. Slow. I spec for insta lift. AOE "fluff" damage stops spam cap attempts. Friendly pull in huttball is like god mode. Sure, I lose probably every 1v1 I've been in, but last I checked there are no 1v1 warzones, so I'm not so worried about that.

And I've never generated so much aggro from the other side. My god, I can't believe how "mad" people on the other side get at me for staying alive and stopping them capping a few times... and the next thing you know they are chasing me around and /say-ing at me for the rest of the match. I've never had that happen with any other class.

[Edit: I'm not saying they are on-par with like a good sniper or merc - but some of the post in this thread make it sound like you'd be better of with no one on your team, instead of a dps-sorc.]

Mind fart wrong spec

nvm

I see a lot of sorc-trashing in this thread. I've been leveling a madness sorc just for the fun of it (up to level 66 now), and admittedly I don't do a lot of DPS. It's actually common with the way I play, that I do more healing than I do DPS in a match. Plus I'm learning to kite better.

 

But in 8s? I feel like my utility more than makes up for my crappy DPS. I save w/ a quick bubble and some off healing my team mate who is taking on 2 of them and doing the dps for me. I have my god-bubble to keep a node just that bit longer to wait for respawns to get there and keep it (plus, it acts as an AOE distract half the time - dps really can't seem to help themselves standing around doing nothing, waiting for the bubble to go down). Knockback. Slow. I spec for insta lift. AOE "fluff" damage stops spam cap attempts. Friendly pull in huttball is like god mode. Sure, I lose probably every 1v1 I've been in, but last I checked there are no 1v1 warzones, so I'm not so worried about that.

 

And I've never generated so much aggro from the other side. My god, I can't believe how "mad" people on the other side get at me for staying alive and stopping them capping a few times... and the next thing you know they are chasing me around and /say-ing at me for the rest of the match. I've never had that happen with any other class.

 

[Edit: I'm not saying they are on-par with like a good sniper or merc - but some of the post in this thread make it sound like you'd be better of with no one on your team, instead of a dps-sorc.]

all what you said a healing sorc or hell even a tank does 11656156 better.... your Nerfing yourself AND your team by playing a DPS sorc in PvP instead of a healing one or anyother class......

Also seems like you were playing againts realy bad DPS players or you had a pocket healer..... good dps players will melt a DPS sorc in a matter of 15-20 seconds if your bubble on CD... when was the last time a Mara jumped you with all his CDs ?

Banderal, no one is saying sorc is worse than an empty spot. But when playing sorc, it does feel like you are bringing a knife to a gun fight, compared to all other dps classes. (And not the super knife the operatives have ;-) )

Well, that does seem true. My post was probably mostly a reaction to all the "1v1" replies (and I realize that the original post did ask about that also). I get a bit tired of what seems to be a "if it can't 1v1 then don't bother in PvP" kind of opinion that it seems more and more people have. I keep wanting to shout into the wind... IT'S NOT A 1 v 1 GAME! But apparently I'm the only one that still thinks that.

I dunno. I just feel like, when I play my sorc, I'm still bringing a lot of value to the team... but yeah, it's not DPS, which I guess is kinda sad for what is supposed to be a "DPS" spec. Or maybe I am just deluding myself. I'll admit that's entirely possible.

Some of you missed the whole point of my post. Try not attacking or ccing a dps sorc in pvp at all, let them freecast and see how much damage they do. The damage is fine, the ability to do the damage while under fire is the major issue, and not just limited to sorc class.

Not limited to, but ESPECIALLY sorc class. Wouldn't you agree.

Some of you missed the whole point of my post. Try not attacking or ccing a dps sorc in pvp at all, let them freecast and see how much damage they do. The damage is fine, the ability to do the damage while under fire is the major issue, and not just limited to sorc class.

this entire post is false

a free casting Lighting sorc is phateticaly bad.

nowdays im seeing people leaving lighting sorcs freecast left and right and the Lighting sorcs with nonstop proccing rotations still only in mid with dmg done in the entire WZs........

a few days ago i was in amatch we had like 5 sorcs 4 lighting and 1 Healer... the enemy team had NO healers barely even any mercs...

we lost because we could not kill anyone. other dps classes by the end of the WZ had like 2x our total dmg....

seriously as lighting you can send entire rotations into peoples faces and their healthbar barely moves.... meanwhile they start shooting or hitting you and your healthbar goes down like a madman....

all what you said a healing sorc or hell even a tank does 11656156 better.... your Nerfing yourself AND your team by playing a DPS sorc in PvP instead of a healing one or anyother class......

That may be, but, even if that is the case, you can't tell people they can't play a class in PVP because there are other classes that may have better DPS. You might as well tell that to anyone who's playing those specs that are 9-16 on the DPS chart while you're at it.

If someone want's to play Lightning, they should play Lightning, and they'd be welcome on my team.

Not only that, but, despite a spec having a lower DPS output potential than others, that is no one way shape of form destiny. I know no less than 3 DPS sorcs personally, who do great DPS and not only when our team has healers the other team doesn't, under all circumstances.

Exceptional players? Too be sure, and you can't base a classes viability based on only those exceptional players as a point of reference, but, it does show that the potential is there, and that if someone works their spec, they can perform not only acceptably but exceptionally with enough skill.

Speaking only for myself, I don't care if a DPS sorc is doing 100k damage every WZ, if that's what the person playing them has the most fun with and wants to play, I'm not finding fault with them. You play games to have fun.

Furthermore, no player in this game, not even one time, got laid because of their DPS output, not once.

[i've tried, not even 10.3 k got them moist =[ ]

I don't think anyone is faulting people for playing as dps sorcs, except maybe for ranked PVP people, lol. As we've all been led to believe that classes are supposedly "balanced", and the gameplay is supposed to be "fair."

The take away from this thread is that the developers need to fix the dps sorc class, not for people to stop playing it, although many have. People get tired of being the underdog fairly quickly.

Furthermore, no player in this game, not even one time, got laid because of their DPS output, not once.

[i've tried, not even 10.3 k got them moist =[ ]

What gets me moist is 5 enemy melee grouped up in the bunker at south pounding on some poor sucker PT on my team while I melt all of them around their reflects and whatnot.

More to the OP and in general:

In the hands of a master, all classes and specs are viable in 8v8. Play what you want in regs.

Not every class/spec is good for arenas, and not every class/spec SHOULD be good for arenas. It is almost impossible to maintain unique class identities while making things fair for all classes/specs in a situation like arenas. Stuns, interrupts, and burst will always be the kings of Arena gameplay, and sorc dps fails in all categories. You wanna play ranked, go with sorc heals or a different dps class. 1v1 falls into the same category too, largely.

That said, Sorc has tons of utility in 8v8 if played well, and is one of, if not the most, mobile class in the game. Friendly pull combined with phase walk can single-handedly turn around a disaster huttball match. Phase walk can get you between nodes so fast it's just sick. Surging Speed utility lets you poop out a force speed crazy often for some great kiting, and stun bubble can keep the melee tunnel in check to a large degree. All this, even on a dps sorc.

Generally speaking, you have to have enough competence and humility to know what your spec can do and how well you will fare against any other given player. One recent match I voluntarily swapped with a Jugg who was guarding snow in CW because I knew he would do a better job of relieving the pressure at grass, which was under heavy fire. We held grass and won the match. Another match, I held off the cap at mid by myself for probably 20 sec in a CW against like 5 players until the rest of my team could come out of spawn after a failed attempt on the side node. I died just as our healer came back into mid, and then when I came out of spawn, I hit the side node with no dcds available. The PT I knew was there got wrecked and then another person came over to help and we finished off the sniper that I hadn't known was there too. We took that node from the two guards when the rest of the team had failed to earlier, and held it, and won the match. This was all in Lightning spec (NOTE: I don't run with CL bug).

And as for generating dps numbers in PvP - again, in the hands of a master, all specs are viable in 8v8 regs. It is not hard to top the charts using Lightning or Madness, you just have to know your rotation and dcds inside and out, just like any other class/spec. Spend some time on the dummy parsing. Do some HM raiding with Star Parse up. Make sure your APM is appropriate for your spec. Compare your rotation to others using the same spec who had better dps. Read through your dcds and utilities thoroughly. Test things out in semi-friendly duels to see if they work (yes you can phase walk outta there while channeling Innervate on yourself, or while stunned, etc). Test out different gearing strategies. Make sure you're maintaining good uptime on enemy targets in matches. It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. Most of this is general game competence; Lightning itself is a 6-ability spec that is as simple to learn as Arsenal, and has the potential to out-perform Arsenal in many circumstances.

65% of dps numbers in PvP is uptime/APM

10% is rotation

10% is cheeseballing AoE

10% is abusing your dcds

5% is gear

0% is spec

tl;dr -- Sorc dps is more than viable in 8v8 in the hands of someone who knows how to play them

Not every class/spec is good for arenas, and not every class/spec SHOULD be good for arenas.

I strongly disagree with this. Most people chose classes because of SW lore, animations, story, etc. Sorc players are certainly NOT expecting to be excluded from arenas and from ranked PVP, upon leveling up their character to the max. That does not make any sense. It's not "fine" nor "okay." We are subscribers, and we are paying for ALL content, just like people who chose another class.

Also, your "DPS percentages" are pulled out of a hat, to put it politely. Usually the same classes top the dps boards, especially in arenas with objectives out of the way. We all know which classes. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions, not the rule.

I strongly disagree with this. Most people chose classes because of SW lore, animations, story, etc. Sorc players are certainly NOT expecting to be excluded from arenas and from ranked PVP, upon leveling up their character to the max. That does not make any sense. It's not "fine" nor "okay." We are subscribers, and we are paying for ALL content, just like people who chose another class.

I would rather not play sorc dps in ranked and maintain the sorc's unique class identity. That, I agree, is a personal preference of mine on which we disagree.

I just don't think it's possible to make various specs ranked-viable without gaining something that was unique to other classes or losing something that made the class unique because it was unfair. There has been a lot of belly-aching in the past about the PT's AoE hard-stun; they are still the only ones that have it and it is still overpowered, but it is still to this day something that makes PTs unique and powerful where other classes lack, especially in this day and age where PTs live on the bottom of the survivability spectrum (ignoring the Shroud bug, which should be fixed, but hasn't been, afaik).

Also, your "DPS percentages" are pulled out of a hat, to put it politely.

They absolutely are pulled out of a hat. It was intended to show that most bad dps in wzs is caused by bad uptime. Some people go into a wz, push a button, look around, push another button, ponder what button to push, then push it, then move somewhere, then push another button. This, instead of hitting dps buttons back to back to back and swapping targets and immediately start pounding on someone else if the original target moves out of range, dies, or disappears.

Usually the same classes top the dps boards, especially in arenas with objectives out of the way. We all know which classes. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions, not the rule.

I would say instead that usually the same people top the dps boards on any toon they happen to be playing, and barring those few good players, average players on over-tuned classes like Merc tend top dps boards. I get what you're saying, but I still maintain that skill matters more than the class or the spec by a wide margin.

Citrienne,

The supposedly most powerful force-users in the game are weaker than knife wielders and fist punchers? Is that the identity??

Dps sorcs did not always have the weak "chicken" identity they do know. There were gradually nerfed into it after 3.0. And If you check out the Sorc/Sage section of the forums, not many people care for such an identity. And that's from people who like the class.

Citrienne,

 

The supposedly most powerful force-users in the game are weaker than knife wielders and fist punchers? Is that the identity??

 

Dps sorcs did not always have the weak "chicken" identity they do know. There were gradually nerfed into it after 3.0. And If you check out the Sorc/Sage section of the forums, not many people care for such an identity. And that's from people who like the class.

LOL, are you a resident of The Ebon Hawk??

I don't like it either, mostly because I can't maintain dps or hps while using my major DCDs. But this is a video game where vastly different classes and specs are expected to be relatively competitive against each other in an environment where a lot of chaotic things are happening, while still having different and unique abilities that makes them all worth playing for different reasons.

Also, this is a Star Wars game at its heart. The Emperor is clearly the model for the Sith Sorcerer. And he sat on his chair and sprayed lightning at Luke while basically teasing him from afar. We Sorcs hold the identity that he gave us - tormenting people from a distance while remaining reluctant to get into hand-to-hand combat because we will crumple like a piece of paper. Meanwhile Darth Vader, clearly a Juggernaut in this meta, is meant to get in your face, choke you, and slam you down like a piece of meat.

Point is, the Sorcerers cowering behind poles and shooting people from range is the identity that the Emperor gave this class, and the game has stuck with that throughout every expansion. Some may not like it, but it is what it is, and it came from the Lore.

Also, if you wanna talk Lore reasons for why Sorcerers should not be viable in ranked, just look to the manner of The Emperor's death.

(I also still maintain that Sorcerers should use two Foci and no saber)

No, I'm from Harbinger.

"Relative competitiveness" is key. Sorcs have both the weakest armor and weakest single-target dps. On top of that, they have the longest cast times for their abilities, which are the weakest AND can be interrupted. There is currently no trade off for their squishiness, unless you consider the fluff AOE damage and DOT damage to be a trade off. Sorcs' lack of competitiveness is often masked in an 8v8 team, but comes to light in an arena, and even in HM Operations.

Your SW lore argument does not hold up either. In ep 3, Palpatine killed several Jedi Knights at once, all by himself. And in Episode 6, Luke did NOT shrug off the Emperor's lightning, nor did he punch the emperor to death with his bare fists, as often happens in SWTOR.

The lowest armor is already enough to force sorcs to kite. There is no need for the lowest dps as well. It's false advertising, since players are given the wrong impression that sorc is a legitimate class.