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Community Q&A – Feb 10th 2012 Blog Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Community Q&A – Feb 10th 2012 Blog Discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Beaverreaverr's Avatar


Beaverreaverr
03.02.2012 , 06:09 AM | #371
More starship battles, keep the same daily system, just make tonnes more of em, right now that is the best part of the game in my opinion... Thankx

jokerkendo's Avatar


jokerkendo
03.06.2012 , 07:15 PM | #372
I'm posting here since a thread I found via google was closed and directed me to this thread for my comments.

Regarding the answer given on Advanced Class respeccing, specifically that it wasn't planned. I know that Bioware wanted to make at least some difference between their class system and those of WoW. Making a non-alterable class decision is NOT the way to do it.

We've come through years of MMO's that have made player freedom more and more accessible. Now we come to a stage where you make a decision on which advanced class you wish to play- And be locked into that. That's it, no possible way to reverse the decision, you're in, like it or lump it?

Now I know that this isn't an issue with some folks. I know there'll probably be plenty of people telling me "if you don't like it, leave" or "Just level another character to go the other spec." Bioware has encouraged us to post on these forums if there's a game issue we don't like, however, so the aforementioned type of players opinion holds little meaning as I'm bringing my dissatisfaction to an avenue where the devs may be able to see it.

Now on to my thoughts:

Why was the decision made to make it impossible to respec away from an advanced class if we discover we don't like it? It's a Deevolution of the MMO process. It hearkens back to the days of Diablo 2 and the "Oh [expletive] I sneezed and put a point in the wrong skills, argh, argh, argh I have to delete now!" though admittedly not to that extreme. Its a step back in character design and the fact that Bioware doesn't see an issue with it is a bit obtuse.

My wife doesn't even want to play anymore, after anticipating the game for years and breathlessly waiting for it to launch. She detests the idea of being forced to pigeonhole her character. She even had an opportunity to beta test for a bit and never saw the forced speccing, er.. enforced.

Why do we have to choose? Respecs are available, Bioware... Please go that extra step and allow us to choose another advanced spec if we so desire. I'm not asking for something extreme, such as turning a level 50 Sith Inquisitor into a level 50 Smuggler, just for the ability to have freedom within our chosen class.

::edited to clear up formatting issues::

Sapphix's Avatar


Sapphix
03.07.2012 , 03:39 AM | #373
Quote: Originally Posted by jokerkendo View Post
I'm posting here since a thread I found via google was closed and directed me to this thread for my comments.

Regarding the answer given on Advanced Class respeccing, specifically that it wasn't planned. I know that Bioware wanted to make at least some difference between their class system and those of WoW. Making a non-alterable class decision is NOT the way to do it.

We've come through years of MMO's that have made player freedom more and more accessible. Now we come to a stage where you make a decision on which advanced class you wish to play- And be locked into that. That's it, no possible way to reverse the decision, you're in, like it or lump it?

Now I know that this isn't an issue with some folks. I know there'll probably be plenty of people telling me "if you don't like it, leave" or "Just level another character to go the other spec." Bioware has encouraged us to post on these forums if there's a game issue we don't like, however, so the aforementioned type of players opinion holds little meaning as I'm bringing my dissatisfaction to an avenue where the devs may be able to see it.

Now on to my thoughts:

Why was the decision made to make it impossible to respec away from an advanced class if we discover we don't like it? It's a Deevolution of the MMO process. It hearkens back to the days of Diablo 2 and the "Oh [expletive] I sneezed and put a point in the wrong skills, argh, argh, argh I have to delete now!" though admittedly not to that extreme. Its a step back in character design and the fact that Bioware doesn't see an issue with it is a bit obtuse.

My wife doesn't even want to play anymore, after anticipating the game for years and breathlessly waiting for it to launch. She detests the idea of being forced to pigeonhole her character. She even had an opportunity to beta test for a bit and never saw the forced speccing, er.. enforced.

Why do we have to choose? Respecs are available, Bioware... Please go that extra step and allow us to choose another advanced spec if we so desire. I'm not asking for something extreme, such as turning a level 50 Sith Inquisitor into a level 50 Smuggler, just for the ability to have freedom within our chosen class.

::edited to clear up formatting issues::
Short answer... advance classes are two different classes. You pick your actual 'class' at level 10.

I understand the terminology is confusing but base class has nothing to do with the actual 'class' system. They share a small amount of quests through their story but that in no way warrants a complete class change considering all players of the same faction will have a majority of the same quests.

I hate that this ruins you and your wife's desire to play. I even agree with you in some ways about the evolution of how classes are defined in MMOs. I wouldn't say that SWTOR de-evolves but rather stays the same. In all honesty I think future MMOs would be a lot more flexible with their class systems but at the moment SWTOR nor the community is ready for that.

I think the discussion runs deeper than we all are willing to admit. Some players see advance classes as nothing but a spec and they are severely disappointed when they can not respec. Other players see advance classes as the actual class and would be infuriated if others where allowed to respec.

It is hard to transcend to the idea that you choose your class at level 10 because we make the decision in-game rather than at character creation. Doing that leaves players always wondering 'what if' instead of committing them to that class taking the good with the bad. If they didn't like the class, they would just re-roll instead of asking the devs for the ability to switch to another class.

You have to understand that if they allow AC respecs it would reduce their class system down from 8 to 4. This would damage the integrity of their class system. I'm certain that Bioware wanted to give us 16 full stories for each of the classes they had planned but time and money was a major factor. Perhaps in the future they would release content that would be directed towards your advanced class rather than your base class.

I personally think they could solve this problem by allowing a paid service that would swap your AC. I would see that as taboo as changing factions was in that other game. When it was first mention, it received a lot of criticism but players accepted it because it was limited to a server process instead of an in-game mechanic.

Again, I'm truly sorry that you are disappointed. I have ran into issues in SWTOR that has let me down as well but all I can say is just hope for a better future. Once Bioware has ironed out the wrinkles they can start adding more polish. I personally would rather see them start defining the advanced classes separately rather than blending them together.

SillyTurtle's Avatar


SillyTurtle
03.07.2012 , 10:55 AM | #374
Honestly, switching ADVANCED class is just, no. It's bad. Like the above poster said, you are practically bringing 8 classes down to 4. You are defeating the purpose of this MMOs design.

Not to sound mean or rude, but you have to accept the choices you make in life. I know (blah blah blah) this is a video game and not real life but the same still applies. Discipline is needed in these sorts of things from both a creative standpoint and mechanics of the core gameplay. They say to make your choices CAREFULLY. Maybe some should take the process more seriously and research each side to choose the best choice for you. Don't yell at Bioware for YOUR mistakes, its not fair. Take some responsibility.

Every character you make is an individual. If you don't see it that way, I guess thats fine but it just makes it harder for you to accept it. Advanced classes are treated as 2 entirely different classes, just with shared abilities. Again the above poster said it best, you don't even choose a class until level 10 technically. SI, SW, Trooper, Smuggler... those are just empty shells basically until you train them in whatever advanced spec.

Now switching specs is a whole different story. I have seen countless posts about this, however either people are using the wrong words and want dual spec, or people are intending to say “dual advanced class”. It seems it's more of the first. At first, I was always against this in any MMO I would want to play. However after lots of thinking, based on the design of advanced classes, dual specing within that class would be ok in my opinion. I'm starting to embrace it now. It's nice to know regardless of spec, that person is still a Sage, or still a Marauder - and not a completely different class like other MMOs where its 3 trees per class and each tree defines you.
Malidan - Marauder - Shadow Hand

Meleen's Avatar


Meleen
03.13.2012 , 05:13 PM | #375
Quote: Originally Posted by SillyTurtle View Post
Honestly, switching ADVANCED class is just, no. It's bad. Like the above poster said, you are practically bringing 8 classes down to 4. You are defeating the purpose of this MMOs design.

Not to sound mean or rude, but you have to accept the choices you make in life. I know (blah blah blah) this is a video game and not real life but the same still applies. Discipline is needed in these sorts of things from both a creative standpoint and mechanics of the core gameplay. They say to make your choices CAREFULLY. Maybe some should take the process more seriously and research each side to choose the best choice for you. Don't yell at Bioware for YOUR mistakes, its not fair. Take some responsibility.

Every character you make is an individual. If you don't see it that way, I guess thats fine but it just makes it harder for you to accept it. Advanced classes are treated as 2 entirely different classes, just with shared abilities. Again the above poster said it best, you don't even choose a class until level 10 technically. SI, SW, Trooper, Smuggler... those are just empty shells basically until you train them in whatever advanced spec.

Now switching specs is a whole different story. I have seen countless posts about this, however either people are using the wrong words and want dual spec, or people are intending to say “dual advanced class”. It seems it's more of the first. At first, I was always against this in any MMO I would want to play. However after lots of thinking, based on the design of advanced classes, dual specing within that class would be ok in my opinion. I'm starting to embrace it now. It's nice to know regardless of spec, that person is still a Sage, or still a Marauder - and not a completely different class like other MMOs where its 3 trees per class and each tree defines you.
It seems to me that a lot of people are dead set opposed to something that in no way affects them. I am fully aware of the terminology involved in it (advanced class vs respeccing within a class) even though some people seem to want to linger on the linguistics as opposed to the meaning.

Advanced class switching is bad. I keep seeing people say this, saying it lowers the value of the classes, etc, sky is falling, blah blah blah. But I've sat in general chat on a number of nights, watching people try to get groups together only to see them fall apart because they couldn't find a tank or healer. Yeah, that's really gooood for the game.

When it comes to advanced class respeccing, I'm aware there are many strong opinions, though I frankly don't see why people who'll not be overly affected by it continue to mindlessly slam their foreheads into their keyboards to spew the same. "NAO, CUZ I SEZ SO ITZ BADD!@1" and various variations of it.

Hell, even if they set it so you could only switch your advanced class with a class (please, no inane arguments about trading a smuggler for a jedi knight here) once per month, I'd be down with that. But setting something simple in stone with a "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" engraving on it is not a step back, it's a major leap.

proxyles's Avatar


proxyles
11.23.2012 , 08:55 AM | #376
So this was februari, how about that Dual spec soon?

marvinmiguel's Avatar


marvinmiguel
12.06.2012 , 04:05 PM | #377
advanced class swaps please! you've announced it before the game even launched and you still have not implemented it! not everyone has the time to re level a character the exact same way again. also they are not different classes they still have the same quests just different skills/Armour in which can easily be purchased (please don't reply with wow comparisons this is NOT wow)

MediumD's Avatar


MediumD
12.06.2012 , 04:33 PM | #378
Quote: Originally Posted by SillyTurtle View Post
Honestly, switching ADVANCED class is just, no. It's bad. Like the above poster said, you are practically bringing 8 classes down to 4. You are defeating the purpose of this MMOs design.
Three people join your Heroic-4. Two of those people paid for an AC respec. How do you tell them from the "legitimate" players? What if all three are lousy players, how do you tell them apart then?

Zevran's Avatar


Zevran
12.23.2012 , 12:05 PM | #379
Seriously i think those people who thinks respec AC's should not be in TOR are selfish people

Lets says BW implemented the feature in the game
And those who hate it, well = don't use it then
And those who love it, well = use it then

Quote:
(please don't reply with wow comparisons this is NOT wow)
Couldn't agree more to many people compare SWTOR to WoW just because they both are MMOG, they are 2 different designs
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.