As many Powertechs know, Bioware is planning on adding a 6 second cooldown to Railshot resets. This may not happen because at the top of the patch notes, it says that none of the changes are final. So maybe if enough people complain, they will not do this?

I've been petitioning it very hard. 6 seconds is just way too long bioware, way too long.

 

Please think it through.

As many Powertechs know, Bioware is planning on adding a 6 second cooldown to Railshot resets. This may not happen because at the top of the patch notes, it says that none of the changes are final. So maybe if enough people complain, they will not do this?

 

Encouraging whining, good plan.

Encouraging whining, good plan.

 

 

Whining gets results around here...

Whining gets results around here...

Calling this a nerf in the first place is a stretch, at best.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Tifski

As many Powertechs know, Bioware is planning on adding a 6 second cooldown to Railshot resets. This may not happen because at the top of the patch notes, it says that none of the changes are final. So maybe if enough people complain, they will not do this?

 

Not really how it works

 

If enough people play on test as powertechs and the data they collect shows that there overall DPS is lower then they were aiming for, then yes, they will change it.

 

Complaining means nothing. They are not listening to people complain because that's the natural, expected reaction to every change. Powertechs saying "I don't like x" gives them no new data; they were already aware that you were not going to like x.

 

What you need to give them is DATA in the form of hours logged on the test server.

Calling this a nerf in the first place is a stretch, at best.

 

Then you don't play a Pyro powertech, sir. Please leave this discussion quietly.

Then you don't play a Pyro powertech, sir. Please leave this discussion quietly.

 

Its going to create more consistent heat generation and reliable DPS. Unless you have some magical way to prove that the sky is falling by having parsing on live and 1.2, the burden of proof would lie on you in this instance.

 

Please, show me some logs that prove that this is a pants-on-head level of DPS nerf.

Its going to create more consistent heat generation and reliable DPS. Unless you have some magical way to prove that the sky is falling by having parsing on live and 1.2, the burden of proof would lie on you in this instance.

 

Please, show me some logs that prove that this is a pants-on-head level of DPS nerf.

 

Everybody with the brain of a chicken can realize that removing the chance to do ultra-high dmg while still leaving a chance to not do any dmg at all is a nerf.

 

Exchange dmg with heat-reduction, and the above sentence still applies. What exactly makes this hard to undersrand and for which part do you need proof?

Edited March 19, 2012 by GianBaal

Its going to create more consistent heat generation and reliable DPS. Unless you have some magical way to prove that the sky is falling by having parsing on live and 1.2, the burden of proof would lie on you in this instance.

 

Please, show me some logs that prove that this is a pants-on-head level of DPS nerf.

 

No, the nerf will create MORE heat generation via less ability to vent heat, unless you constantly rapid shot, and reliable DPS in that we know we wont have Rail Shots but every 9-12 seconds, thus no way to vent heat, thus increasing the amount that we rapid shot. That is why it is a DPS nerf. It is forcing us to use rapid shots over anything else to save heat every 9 seconds in anticipation for the PPA proc. Bro, significantly Less DPS does not equal reliable DPS.

 

Now, unless you have some magical way to prove that this is not a spec ruining, DPS nerf, you can kindly leave, too.

Everybody with the brain of a chicken can realize that removing the chance to do ultra-high dmg while still leaving a chance to not do any dmg at all is a nerf.

 

Exchange dmg with heat-reduction, and the above sentence still applies. What exactly makes this hard to undersrand and for which part do you need proof?

 

Your statement implies that dealing ultra-high damage is balanced. It is not, if I wasn't clear.

 

I hate internal CDs out of principle, but PPA was way too good of a talent and needed a change. Also, other procs that are just as powerful as PPA are also limited by internal CDs so this change shouldn't really be a surprise.

 

My hope is that the 6 second internal CD will allow for more variation in PyroTech damage rotations so it can still put up desired damage output (i.e. Thermal Detonator is no longer a DPS loss). It doesn't make sense for the talent Rain of Fire to affect four abilities when you only truly use two of them.

Your statement implies that dealing ultra-high damage is balanced. It is not, if I wasn't clear.

 

I hate internal CDs out of principle, but PPA was way too good of a talent and needed a change. Also, other procs that are just as powerful as PPA are also limited by internal CDs so this change shouldn't really be a surprise.

 

My hope is that the 6 second internal CD will allow for more variation in PyroTech damage rotations so it can still put up desired damage output (i.e. Thermal Detonator is no longer a DPS loss). It doesn't make sense for the talent Rain of Fire to affect four abilities when you only truly use two of them.

 

Nobody disagrees with the PPA cooldown, it definitely NEEDED it. But the fact remains that It's our only way to vent heat and we still have to fight RNG for it. It's already an unreliable proc and putting a timer on unreliable DPS and heat management is bad design. Just because it has a timer does NOT mean its reliable now, it's just as RNG now as it was before.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology

Nobody disagrees with the PPA cooldown, it definitely NEEDED it. But the fact remains that It's our only way to vent heat and we still have to fight RNG for it. It's plain stupid.

 

Sorry I looked away from my computer screen for a second so I forgot to complete my thought on the topic.

 

Yes, Superheated Rail allows for a very fun Heat venting mechanic (whereas passive venting from the other trees, while powerful, isn't very engaging) but seems to suck unless PPA also procs for the Heat-free Rail Shot.

 

I think an easy fix would be to increase the Heat vent from Superheated Rail to compensate for the effectively lower PPA proc chance. Alternatively, we can add Thermal Detonator and Rocket Punch to the list of abilities that vent 8 Heat via Superheated Rail.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Mapex

Nobody disagrees with the PPA cooldown, it definitely NEEDED it. But the fact remains that It's our only way to vent heat and we still have to fight RNG for it. It's already an unreliable proc and putting a timer on unreliable DPS and heat management is bad design. Just because it has a timer does NOT mean its reliable now, it's just as RNG now as it was before.

 

They are upping the process rate on PPA, which is going to create more consistent heat generation. If people believe that occasionally having 3-4 procs in a row was balanced in ANY way, they are past the point where any rational argument will help them understand that this change was NEEDED.

 

I'm pretty confident (read: guesstimate with no logging to back up) that Pyro PTa will still find themselves near the top of PvE DPS rankings. I only base this from being one of the only people in my raid group who will occasionally pull aggro when I get too many procs in a row.

 

While this could be due to some type of threat generation differences between 15+ yard abilities vs. melee range (<10 yard) abilities, there just isn't enough information available to the playerbase to validate this thought. We have some guildies that are looking at ways to live stream the parses to a central location and look at near real-time DPS fight analysis, but we're unsure if this will help with the state of logging in the q.w PTR. Hopefully things like this will allow the playerbase to validate the impact that changes to classes have on current content.

 

Is it wrong to force the players into this type of role? Absolutely, but its things like this that pushed forward theorycrafting of classes in games like wow, hopefully it will do the same for TOR.

Its going to create more consistent heat generation and reliable DPS. Unless you have some magical way to prove that the sky is falling by having parsing on live and 1.2, the burden of proof would lie on you in this instance.

 

Please, show me some logs that prove that this is a pants-on-head level of DPS nerf.

 

By the same token, how did you prove it to yourself that it isnt? I do not need a parse to see that it is a nerf to burst, it is a nerf to sustained dps, it is a nerf to heat management of the tree, and it is definitely a nerf to the fun factor and excitement that a RNG created for this tree.

Its going to create more consistent heat generation and reliable DPS. Unless you have some magical way to prove that the sky is falling by having parsing on live and 1.2, the burden of proof would lie on you in this instance.

 

Please, show me some logs that prove that this is a pants-on-head level of DPS nerf.

 

It will be more reliable, but maybe less fun. Part of the fun was waiting for a RS proc.

They are upping the process rate on PPA, which is going to create more consistent heat generation. If people believe that occasionally having 3-4 procs in a row was balanced in ANY way, they are past the point where any rational argument will help them understand that this change was NEEDED.

 

I'm pretty confident (read: guesstimate with no logging to back up) that Pyro PTa will still find themselves near the top of PvE DPS rankings. I only base this from being one of the only people in my raid group who will occasionally pull aggro when I get too many procs in a row.

 

While this could be due to some type of threat generation differences between 15+ yard abilities vs. melee range (<10 yard) abilities, there just isn't enough information available to the playerbase to validate this thought. We have some guildies that are looking at ways to live stream the parses to a central location and look at near real-time DPS fight analysis, but we're unsure if this will help with the state of logging in the q.w PTR. Hopefully things like this will allow the playerbase to validate the impact that changes to classes have on current content.

 

Is it wrong to force the players into this type of role? Absolutely, but its things like this that pushed forward theorycrafting of classes in games like wow, hopefully it will do the same for TOR.

 

Just because they up the proc rate on PPA doesn't mean that it is still a reliable way of venting heat, Flame burst has 45% chance and RP has 60% chance now, thats still a HUGE margin between the 2 for non-procs, in which cause you just used 32 heat, and have to use another 16 heat, for a total of 48 heat (if you're lucky and get the proc on the 3rd ability) just to use railshot and vent 8 heat. It's a joke man.

This change cuts both ways. We won't see the same absurd burst happen when the RNG gods smiled upon us, but neither will a rail shot CD run its full duration. This also applies to heat.

 

 

To be honest, being fully BM geared, I'm surprised we didn't get a direct nerf to our multipliers.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Sowwy

Yea 6 secs is ages and too long imho. 5 secs with slightly higher procrates would be a good place to start with adjustments later on.

3 ICD seconds, plus the assumed 2 GCDS post proc cooldown would be roughly 6 seconds per rail shot. There's no reason it shouldn't be this.

Or make it so there is no longer a proc and with the right spec the cooldown on railshot is 6s.

We all know that Pyro was way OP as it stands right now when I can proc 3-4 times in a row if I get really lucky and my target stands no chance at all, But BW has gone to far with a 6 sec cool down. This is why.

 

1. Heat will be a joke for us now, with a 6 sec cool down on RS we dont really have any abilities at low heat cost to use as filler. Besides Rapid shot which is a joke

 

2. will take away all bursting potential out of the class

 

3. Makes the class no fun to play anymore due to no filler ability that have low heat

 

So how would you feel about say a 10% nerf in damage to rail shot insted of the 6sec cool down. I think this will solve the problem that they are haveing not letting us Crit for 3-4k and 5k on weak players to maby criting for 2-3k max I am ok with that.

 

Also side note BW how to you buff force sweep the strongest dps move in the game that I have seen crit for 5-7k on 1-5 players and then reduce that cool down to nothing and then give us a cool down on this.

The cooldown would have to be more like 7.5 to compensate for the 1 GCD to actually proc it, which still, is much better than the current RNG internal cooldown crap they have now.

All my pyrotech guildies just told me that this cool down cannot happen they run out of heat in seconds. I think this is because they are playing like they used to and just flame blasting until the RS proc happens. So this totaly ruins are spec because doing constant rapid shots for 6 seconds before starting flame burst just isnt going to work for us. No more burst no more fun and no sustained dps.

The new rotation will be as follows:

 

Opener: Same as before with TD --> IM--> (relics/adrenals) RS --> RP (RS) FB (RS) -->

 

Rapid shots --> Rapid Shots --> Rapid Shots--> Rapid Shots --> RP/FB --> RS. Rinse and repeat.

 

Basically, you blow your wad for 6 seconds, max your heat, then rapid shot to auto-vent all the way back down.

 

Makes me sick just thinking about it.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Theology