Well I don't know a whole lot about the Krath. After reading the past few posts I'll change my mind that thr Krath/Massassi are better then Republic soldiers and perhaps better then Mando soldiers.

 

But as for the fleets, I are the Krath supplying the ships and the crewmen to Kun's fleet? That would make a big difference.

 

But yeah, I'll agree (as of now) that the Krath are better then standard Republic troops (and perhaps the Mandos), but I have a feeling they'd have a tuff time with Revan's fleet. Also, didn't someone say a while ago that we'd decided that the Mando fleet is better then Kun's if so, then Revan's is likely better then Kun's. If not, then I'm being told some conflicting into on Kun and his ships.

 

Somebody inform me: just how powerful is Kun's fleet?

I've done some research, but I'll do some more later.

But from what I have gleaned, the Krath are descendants of Empress Teta, the same Empress that helped the Republic beat Naga Sadow. Their fleet is actually quite remarkable, as are their warriors. Maybe the Mando's win off of their numbers, but the Krath have been outnumbered before and been victorious. So maybe the Mando's can win, but not at the cost of a good majority of their ships.

Not only that, but both the Krath and Massassi have bested the Jedi Order in battle. The Jedi that they beat would school the Mandalorians in a battle, so Kun has the obvious land advantage.

On the topic of Basilisk War Droids. The war droid was only available to Mandalorians of the highest standing. their "nobility", so to speak. So I doubt a quarter of the Mandalorians have a Basilisk War Droid.

Known in the Mandalorian language of Mando'a as bes'uliike, or "iron beasts",[14] only the warriors of the highest standing in a clan were given the honor of piloting a Basilisk droid

This isn't to say that there aren't that many, but its not as many as you would think.

I've done some research, but I'll do some more later.

 

But from what I have gleaned, the Krath are descendants of Empress Teta, the same Empress that helped the Republic beat Naga Sadow. Their fleet is actually quite remarkable, as are their warriors. Maybe the Mando's win off of their numbers, but the Krath have been outnumbered before and been victorious. So maybe the Mando's can win, but not at the cost of a good majority of their ships.

 

Not only that, but both the Krath and Massassi have bested the Jedi Order in battle. The Jedi that they beat would school the Mandalorians in a battle, so Kun has the obvious land advantage.

 

On the topic of Basilisk War Droids. The war droid was only available to Mandalorians of the highest standing. their "nobility", so to speak. So I doubt a quarter of the Mandalorians have a Basilisk War Droid.

 

Known in the Mandalorian language of Mando'a as bes'uliike, or "iron beasts",[14] only the warriors of the highest standing in a clan were given the honor of piloting a Basilisk droid

 

This isn't to say that there aren't that many, but its not as many as you would think.

Thank you. I feel much more capable of making a fair guess as to how this battle will end up now.

Alright, once again - this battle is looking bad for MtU. I shall update what I believe to be the apparent strengths/weaknesses.

Fleet advantage: Very close. Mandos have more ships, Kun has better ships. However Basilisks are gonna change things a bit. I'd still give a slight advantage to MtU.

Ground forces advantage: Kun gets it. But I also feel that this will be very close due to the Mando warriors and their Basilisks.

Leadership advantage: Even.

One-on-one advantage: Kun obviously.

Here's my take: this is gonna be a long war. Long enough that the leaders are gonna learn a thing or two about there enemies soon enough to prevent themselves from making a extremely costly mistake. MtU will likely underestimate Kun's ground forces, but I feel like he'll get a chance to make up for that mistake. Like I said, I think this will be a long war.

The Mando's Basilisks seem to be their only legit advantage that (besides sheer numbers). Also, we should look at there logistics and resources because I feel that this will be a long war. The Mandos will have plenty of loot, and I imagine the Krath resources are gonna be nearly as good.

This battle will be close, but as Aurbere said, the Mando's aren't gonna have as many Basilisks as I thought. I want 'em to win bad, but my Mandalorian friends just don't seemingly have what it takes to win.

A Mandalorian(Don't care if it's Boba Fett.) would 'kick Exar's shebs'? arguably the third most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith ever? one of the finest duellists ever? the guy who put Luke Skywalker in a coma, as a spirit no less? I can't see that logic.

Yes, but just because one's a fine duelist doesn't mean they could stand up in, say, a bare-knuckles brawl, or a fleet-on-fleet battle. Mandalore was a brilliant tactician in addition to a beast in a brawl - and Exar always reliant on his lightsaber in a fight, and he was a fighter, not tactician.

Alright, once again - this battle is looking bad for MtU. I shall update what I believe to be the apparent strengths/weaknesses.

 

Fleet advantage: Very close. Mandos have more ships, Kun has better ships. However Basilisks are gonna change things a bit. I'd still give a slight advantage to MtU.

 

Ground forces advantage: Kun gets it. But I also feel that this will be very close due to the Mando warriors and their Basilisks.

 

Leadership advantage: Even.

 

One-on-one advantage: Kun obviously.

 

Here's my take: this is gonna be a long war. Long enough that the leaders are gonna learn a thing or two about there enemies soon enough to prevent themselves from making a extremely costly mistake. MtU will likely underestimate Kun's ground forces, but I feel like he'll get a chance to make up for that mistake. Like I said, I think this will be a long war.

 

The Mando's Basilisks seem to be their only legit advantage that (besides sheer numbers). Also, we should look at there logistics and resources because I feel that this will be a long war. The Mandos will have plenty of loot, and I imagine the Krath resources are gonna be nearly as good.

 

This battle will be close, but as Aurbere said, the Mando's aren't gonna have as many Basilisks as I thought. I want 'em to win bad, but my Mandalorian friends just don't seemingly have what it takes to win.

The Basilisks are definitely the big hitters for the Mando's, but they aren't insta-wins. They'll do some damage, but not enough to defeat Kun's forces. I'd say the war droids boost Mandalore's chances a fair bit, but these droids aren't invulnerable. Kun and his Sith can easily knock them aside with the Force, or destroy them with a lightsaber.

We should also remember that the Krath have their own War Droids. These droids were built to fight Jedi. They were even capable of killing Jedi Master Arca Jeth, one of the most powerful Jedi of his time.

In the end, it should be close, but Kun has this one.

Yes, but just because one's a fine duelist doesn't mean they could stand up in, say, a bare-knuckles brawl, or a fleet-on-fleet battle. Mandalore was a brilliant tactician in addition to a beast in a brawl - and Exar always reliant on his lightsaber in a fight, and he was a fighter, not tactician.

Mandalore the Indomitable had all of the advantages in his battle with Ulic Qel-Droma, and that didn't work out him. Ulic pretty much destroyed him. Not only that, but Kun is one of the most powerful Sith of ALL time. He's up there with Vader and Dooku, if not better than them. Kun could easily best a large group of mandalorians single-handedly. Mandalore is no match for him. He was so powerful that the Jedi Order was forcd to lock him on Yavin 4. They were scared to face him in battle. He bested his master in a duel when he was just a Padawan. He killed Odan-Urr with relative ease. Mandalore, and any other Mandalorian, is nothing compared to him.

Yes, but just because one's a fine duelist doesn't mean they could stand up in, say, a bare-knuckles brawl, or a fleet-on-fleet battle. Mandalore was a brilliant tactician in addition to a beast in a brawl - and Exar always reliant on his lightsaber in a fight, and he was a fighter, not tactician.

Tell me, what armor does Mandalore have that stops Exar from taking his head clean off with a force blast? oh and how will he stop Kun from crippling his brain with his mind? Will he be able to stand up against a master of the lightsaber form that makes you an expert in balanced combat? not only that but Kun threw out the whole moderation stick with Niman and merely turned it into an extremely aggressive form when mixed with his immense mastery of Jar'kai and saberstaff that randomly changes length, one-on-one Mandalore goes down in seconds.

And he may be a great tactician, but tactics can only do so much against an overwhelmingly aggressive horde of Dark Side infused maniacs with no care at all about anything but murder and blood.

The Mandalorians may be the most effective non-force using warriors in the galaxy, but Kun's Sith Empire was made up of a never ending force of Sith War Beasts(Which included abominations the likes of Terentateks) that Exar Kun will keep creating with that great knowledge of Sith Alchemy.

The most promising Force Users in the galaxy(which included the later known Darth Sion) and the Krath who were another warrior-like honourable people, but also completely fanatical and driven by the bloodlust shared from their force sensitive overlords, hordes like that can't be demoralised or waited-out, they also never stop.

Beskar'gam

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron

And look at this awesome quote:

"By the Force! I thought a lightsaber could cut through anything. The walls are barely scratched. The only thing that can resist a lightsaber is…Mandalorian iron!" ―Exar Kun, regarding Freedon Nadd's tomb

Beskar was nearly indestructable. Exar Kun had trouble cutting through a door, I don't think he'll be slashing through a Mandalorian army anytime soon. If Exar Kun's lightsaber can't cut through Mandalorian armor, what makes his other forces able to defeat Mandos?

Beskar is used from ships as well. Mandalore's Army has MUCH better armor, and, with their war machines (also with Beskar) I don't see how Kun's army would be able to take them down.

Fleet advantage: Very close. Mandos have more ships, Kun has better ships. However Basilisks are gonna change things a bit. I'd still give a slight advantage to MtU.

Actually, Mandalore the Indomitable said "you fight with antiques" to Ulic Qel-Droma. We know that the Mandalorians steal technology, improve upon them and use them for their ships, weapons and droids. Kun had Supremacy-class attack ships as the primary capitol ships in his fleet that are 550 metres in length, while the Mandos have the Kyramud-type battleship at 752 metres and Kandosii-type dreadnaught at 1360 metres as their primary capitol ships. The Kandosii is also packed with nuclear missles.

I'd say the Mandos have larger ships with more firepower, not more ships.

But the Krath have one very deadly weapon going for them that the Mandalorians don't have. They are willing to kamikaze their starfighters into enemy craft.

Beskar'gam

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron

 

And look at this awesome quote:

"By the Force! I thought a lightsaber could cut through anything. The walls are barely scratched. The only thing that can resist a lightsaber is…Mandalorian iron!" ―Exar Kun, regarding Freedon Nadd's tomb

 

Beskar was nearly indestructable. Exar Kun had trouble cutting through a door, I don't think he'll be slashing through a Mandalorian army anytime soon. If Exar Kun's lightsaber can't cut through Mandalorian armor, what makes his other forces able to defeat Mandos?

 

Beskar is used from ships as well. Mandalore's Army has MUCH better armor, and, with their war machines (also with Beskar) I don't see how Kun's army would be able to take them down.

Unfortunately, all of that uber-armor stuff has been retconned to hell.

Beskar'gam

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mandalorian_iron

 

And look at this awesome quote:

"By the Force! I thought a lightsaber could cut through anything. The walls are barely scratched. The only thing that can resist a lightsaber is…Mandalorian iron!" ―Exar Kun, regarding Freedon Nadd's tomb

 

Beskar was nearly indestructable. Exar Kun had trouble cutting through a door, I don't think he'll be slashing through a Mandalorian army anytime soon. If Exar Kun's lightsaber can't cut through Mandalorian armor, what makes his other forces able to defeat Mandos?

 

Beskar is used from ships as well. Mandalore's Army has MUCH better armor, and, with their war machines (also with Beskar) I don't see how Kun's army would be able to take them down.

They'd win the same way Revan's Jedi won. Beskar isn't invincible. How do you think Revan won the war?

And this:

Unfortunately, all of that uber-armor stuff has been retconned to hell.

Tell me, what armor does Mandalore have that stops Exar from taking his head clean off with a force blast? oh and how will he stop Kun from crippling his brain with his mind? Will he be able to stand up against a master of the lightsaber form that makes you an expert in balanced combat? .

Point made. I just don't like Exar Kun.

Concerning Krath War droids, they were built to fight Jedi - surely then they would be ineffective against Mandalorians? They were designed for 1v1 melee duels. I doubt there blaster bolt deflection is very high, especially seeing as the wield vibroblades. It seems to me that a group of Mandalorians could easily surround one of these droids and gun it down.

I also believe further discussion is needed concerning ground forces. Both the Krath and the Massassi seem very melee based while the Mandalorians favour long range/short range fire. So Kun's forces need to get in close to deal damage, and by that point the Mandalorians could have gunned them down. But when they do get in close, only the Mandalorians armour can defend them. Mind you, wasn't it built of a substance that resists lightsabers? Surely this would work on vibroblades etc as well?

Basically its melee vs ranged.

Let the ground battle tactics Kaggath begin!

Unfortunately, all of that uber-armor stuff has been retconned to hell.

I don't know what that means.....

I don't know what that means.....

In other words, that awesome armor? not so awesome anymore, I'd give you examples of how Beskar is basically nothing now, but there are so many I wouldn't know where to start, basically the whole thing was finalised due to the many discrepancies in the EU, when the Jedi sliced and diced Death Squad or whatever they are called in the Clone Wars.

Concerning Krath War droids, they were built to fight Jedi - surely then they would be ineffective against Mandalorians? They were designed for 1v1 melee duels. I doubt there blaster bolt deflection is very high, especially seeing as the wield vibroblades. It seems to me that a group of Mandalorians could easily surround one of these droids and gun it down.

 

I also believe further discussion is needed concerning ground forces. Both the Krath and the Massassi seem very melee based while the Mandalorians favour long range/short range fire. So Kun's forces need to get in close to deal damage, and by that point the Mandalorians could have gunned them down. But when they do get in close, only the Mandalorians armour can defend them. Mind you, wasn't it built of a substance that resists lightsabers? Surely this would work on vibroblades etc as well?

 

Basically its melee vs ranged.

 

Let the ground battle tactics Kaggath begin!

Kun's forces seem to have fared well against the Republic. Kun's army gets in close through the use of the environment. If they were fighting on a wasteland or plain of some-sort, then Mandalore would have a better chance.

Now we should note that the War Droids were also very fast, covering distance at great speed. They also had range weapons. A type of pulse cannon. So it's not really melee versus ranged. While many of Kun's Warriors were melee, he also had range. The droids were also deployed in overwhelming numbers.

I understand Traya's victory may disappoint certain people. But I did take in to account everything that was said on the forums (I even did a tally) and Traya emerged the victor. But console yourselves with this, Revan was defeated by his former master and possibly one of the greatest manipulators and galaxy has ever seen - second only to Sidious.

Don't insult our intelligence. Traya is no Sidious. No one suspected Sidious, even the jedi council. Even an untrained force sensitive could tell Traya was no good. Sidious spent years cultivating his pawns, Traya shows up and 5 min later she is preaching and telling what to do.

But if Revan does become her apprentice, which is odd because your rules say no surrender, then he will kill her in a couple of days/hours because she can't inspire loyalty.

Also I would say Exar over the Mando, casue all he need do is duel him.

In other words, that awesome armor? not so awesome anymore, I'd give you examples of how Beskar is basically nothing now, but there are so many I wouldn't know where to start, basically the whole thing was finalised due to the many discrepancies in the EU, when the Jedi sliced and diced Death Squad or whatever they are called in the Clone Wars.

I don't really understand how this is a valid point. Lore (as we are all so fond of) states that Beskar'gam is indestructable. Maybe those Mandos weren't wearing the "iron skin". Maybe it's not as pure as it was in MtU's time because they've used up most of it by the Clones Wars.

When Exar Kun states that he cannot cut through it, we come to one of two conclusions: Exar Kun's lightsaber is weak, which means he still won't be killing Mandos (with his lightsaber) anytime soon, or Mandalorian armor, at least in MtU's time period, can withstand lightsaber strikes.

This is not to say it is undeafeatable, only that it is a very protective set of armor every Mando has. It would give them the advantage on land.

I don't really understand how this is a valid point. Lore (as we are all so fond of) states that Beskar'gam is indestructable. Maybe those Mandos weren't wearing the "iron skin". Maybe it's not as pure as it was in MtU's time because they've used up most of it by the Clones Wars.

 

When Exar Kun states that he cannot cut through it, we come to one of two conclusions: Exar Kun's lightsaber is weak, which means he still won't be killing Mandos (with his lightsaber) anytime soon, or Mandalorian armor, at least in MtU's time period, can withstand lightsaber strikes.

 

This is not to say it is undeafeatable, only that it is a very protective set of armor every Mando has. It would give them the advantage on land.

T-Canon lore smashed that Idea, as they are stated to be wearing Mandalorian armor, they even have a line or two as far as I know where they go on about how impressive that armor is, fast-forward, their lightsabers are dicing them easily.

It's called retconning, Lucas didn't like it, it's not canon anymore or at the very least, it isn't nearly as effective as it once was.

T-Canon lore smashed that Idea, as they are stated to be wearing Mandalorian armor, they even have a line or two as far as I know where they go on about how impressive that armor is, fast-forward, their lightsabers are dicing them easily.

 

It's called retconning, Lucas didn't like it, it's not canon anymore or at the very least, it isn't nearly as effective as it once was.

So Exar Kun is magically able to slice through Beskar now? Seems legit.....

So Exar Kun is magically able to slice through Beskar now? Seems legit.....

Nobody likes Retconning, it's like the changes made to the original trilogy, but it happens.

Concerning Krath War droids, they were built to fight Jedi - surely then they would be ineffective against Mandalorians? They were designed for 1v1 melee duels. I doubt there blaster bolt deflection is very high, especially seeing as the wield vibroblades. It seems to me that a group of Mandalorians could easily surround one of these droids and gun it down.

 

I also believe further discussion is needed concerning ground forces. Both the Krath and the Massassi seem very melee based while the Mandalorians favour long range/short range fire. So Kun's forces need to get in close to deal damage, and by that point the Mandalorians could have gunned them down. But when they do get in close, only the Mandalorians armour can defend them. Mind you, wasn't it built of a substance that resists lightsabers? Surely this would work on vibroblades etc as well?

 

Basically its melee vs ranged.

 

Let the ground battle tactics Kaggath begin!

That's a great point about the Krath War droids and I completely agree with you on that.

So we need to look at ground forces now?

- I'll take ranged over melee any day. History has proven the effectiveness of ranged over melee. Compare a rifle to a sword and there you have it. Granted this is the Star Wars universe and things are a little different.

Mando Army

Well trained honor bound warriors who have studied war there whole lives. They have excellent tech on their side and beast armor. Yes, the armor isn't what it used to be, but we can fairly say that this armor will be relatively resistant to vibro-blades. Oh, and there are Basilisk War Droids. Pretty awesome.

Kun's Army

First word that comes to mind: Hybrid. This army is a beautiful mix of Dark Jedi, Massassi, Krath, and beasts! This mixed up army won't be extremely organized due to the varience (spelling?). However Kun's army is gonna be BEAST at short range.

Kun's army = fierce/chaotic/crazy

MtU's army = organized/effecient/driven

I honestly think this is an EXTREMELY fun match up! So many different warriors here!

So who has the edge? Soldier vs Soldier I would give it to Kun. HOWEVER MtU's men will be more organized due to several things. If MtU can come up with some impressive tactics, I give him the edge. I think this land battle greatly depends on MtU's ability to fully utilize the discipline of his men. So overall, I give this particular edge to MtU. Does that sound right? Y'all's thoughts?

That's a great point about the Krath War droids and I completely agree with you on that.

 

So we need to look at ground forces now?

- I'll take ranged over melee any day. History has proven the effectiveness of ranged over melee. Compare a rifle to a sword and there you have it. Granted this is the Star Wars universe and things are a little different.

 

Mando Army

Well trained honor bound warriors who have studied war there whole lives. They have excellent tech on their side and beast armor. Yes, the armor isn't what it used to be, but we can fairly say that this armor will be relatively resistant to vibro-blades. Oh, and there are Basilisk War Droids. Pretty awesome.

 

Kun's Army

First word that comes to mind: Hybrid. This army is a beautiful mix of Dark Jedi, Massassi, Krath, and beasts! This mixed up army won't be extremely organized due to the varience (spelling?). However Kun's army is gonna be BEAST at short range.

 

Kun's army = fierce/chaotic/crazy

MtU's army = organized/effecient/driven

 

I honestly think this is an EXTREMELY fun match up! So many different warriors here!

 

So who has the edge? Soldier vs Soldier I would give it to Kun. HOWEVER MtU's men will be more organized due to several things. If MtU can come up with some impressive tactics, I give him the edge. I think this land battle greatly depends on MtU's ability to fully utilize the discipline of his men. So overall, I give this particular edge to MtU. Does that sound right? Y'all's thoughts?

You should also note that the Krath War Droids have a long-ranged pulse type weapon (something like the Predator I think, though I don't think it's as powerful). They also move very fast, covering great distances at speed. Not only that, but they are droids. They can identify the spaces in which the Mando's armor doesn't cover and attack with deadly efficiency. So now we have decapitations and amputations all over the place at incredible speeds.

I do think Mandalore's ranged weapons give him an advantage, but that can be quickly overcome by these droids. While the Mando's are busy trying to contend with the droids, the Krath, Massassi and Sith move to engage.

The diversity of troops we have here is incredible. I think that is what wins Kun this battle. But I don't think it will be a blow-out. Mandalore will put up a good fight, especially with those Basilisks, but it wont be enough.

Another point about the Krath War Droids, is that they are programmed to go after the biggest threats first. So the best fighters will go down first.

Also are the Ketos part of Kun's army in this exercise?

If so Kun wins hands down.