I have played PVP in every form since release, including the now dead ranked 8v8. Hatred assassins as they are now, are probably the most overpowered spec in the history of this game. The only things that come close are 1.0 conceal operatives that could global people out of stealth and were quickly nerfed 3-4x in each subsequent patch, 2.0 operative healers. Marauders in early 8v8 ranked were pretty OP, but nothing on the level of where hatred assassins are now.

 

To even try to argue that hatred assassins are not OP is ignorant at best, and otherwise dishonest.

They are capable of the top DPS in the game, pulling 3k+ DPS in warzones. This is fine, someone has to be the dop DPS parser in warzones and put out that pressure on the other team. However, the top DPS shouldn't also have the game's second best defensive CD's (2nd only to juggernaut) with 7s of force shroud available, deflect, CC immunity, combined with stealth/combat re-stealth, self-heals, force speed with CC breaker, extreme DOT pressure with assassinate ability.

 

No other spec in the history of the game has had the combination of survivability + damage + stealth. Not even remotely close.

 

PT/Sorc/Veng Jugg are all very strong specs, and honestly I think that's where the balance should be. Classes that are weaker than them need to be buffed. The only class that needs to be nerfed are hatred assassins. They have literally broken ranked warzones.

 

I am fine going against a PT who can blow me up in a matter of seconds because they have weaknesses that I can exploit. They are squishy and not very mobile. Oh, and they're not stealth. Sorcs are very killable, they are like fighting a piece of paper, and thundering blast is interruptable. They are also... not stealth. Juggernauts are tanky, but just make them blow their DCD's and they do NOT put out the type of damage pressure an assassin does, oh yea and they are not stealth.

 

More and more and more wz's are just full of assassins. I even considered being that guy and no-lifing an assassin up to 60 because they're just so so so strong right now. They are without a doubt the most OP PVP spec this game has ever had in its 3+ year history.

 

Hatred Assassins need to be nerfed for the good of the game.

Edited January 22, 2015 by DrWeebs

how original..

It was also the worst spec for almost 3 years, so let them enjoy some time in the sun like every other spec in the game has been able to in the last 3 years. I don't doubt a nerf is coming, just saying get over it and be patient...changes will come.

how original..

 

Seriously man.... In a forum filled with whining he at least provides a logical argument and feedback and I 100% agree with him. Try contributing next time.

I did 6 matches of solo que's on Harbringer tuesday night, every match had at least 2 assassins/shadows. One match had 3 assassins on my team with 3 shadows on the opposite team, all dps spec. So 6/8 players in a single game of ranked were the exact same class running the exact same spec. That should tell you all you need to know. OP FOTM ftw.

Wow. Looking at their discipline talents I wanna roll one. We are forced to pick and choose giving this up for that. They can have their cake and eat it too. Lol, who thought this was a great idea given the sacrifices other classes have to make to get key abilities. Electric bindings to make the KB we have not worthless is 2nd tier for sorcs, if it was 1st everyone would have it. Assassin's however get it 1st tier. What? lol Shapeless spirit heroic for sorcs tier 1 for assassins? Oh well that just means all their heroic stuff sucks right cuz all the good stuff is low? Nope, not so much it turns out. Honestly, it is overboard I have to agree. Edited January 22, 2015 by skarlson

how original..

 

How original...

Wow. Looking at their discipline talents I wanna roll one. We are forced to pick and choose giving this up for that. They can have their cake and eat it too. Lol, who thought this was a great idea given the sacrifices other classes have to make to get key abilities. Electric bindings to make the KB we have not worthless is 2nd tier for sorcs, if it was 1st everyone would have it. Assassin's however get it 1st tier. What? lol Shapeless spirit heroic for sorcs tier 1 for assassins? Oh well that just means all their heroic stuff sucks right cuz all the good stuff is low? Nope, not so much it turns out. Honestly, it is overboard I have to agree.

 

BW/Devs take years (traditionally) to rebalance classes...."if you can't beat em, join em".

 

I hate this personally as I am a casual player and don't have all day/week/month to level a new toon on the whim. My advice if you don't either, find a good haterd sin...or 2......or 3.... to grp with and jsut support them during wz's as needed. Stealth classes should have heavy (but not obsurd) burst and then be glass cannons after their opening......this simply isn't the case with them...they have burst, pressure dps, defenses/cc unmatched...they are the best of all worlds which is kinda silly...

 

If I had the time/energy/want...i would simply retire all my toons and reroll Sin as this will not change for a long time.

It was also the worst spec for almost 3 years, so let them enjoy some time in the sun like every other spec in the game has been able to in the last 3 years. I don't doubt a nerf is coming, just saying get over it and be patient...changes will come.

 

That's not how balancing works, you only balancing around the here and now, not about what was. Besides there are some classes such as DPS mercs which haven't had a strong spec since 1.2

That's not how balancing works, you only balancing around the here and now, not about what was. Besides there are some classes such as DPS mercs which haven't had a strong spec since 1.2

 

Where was I explaining how balance works? You might want to check your reading glasses...or maybe your class has a tier 1 utility for enhanced vision you could pick.

Seriously man.... In a forum filled with whining he at least provides a logical argument and feedback and I 100% agree with him. Try contributing next time.

This. ^^^^

 

On another ironic note, Sentinels/Marauders (who are desperately in need of a survival/mobility buff) seem to be able to chew through Serenity/Hatred players quite well. I think it's because they can front-load their DPS with Zen/Fury, and because the Shad/Sin needs to get close to them for part of their damage.

 

We have a Carnage Marauder on Pot5 (named Warja) who DESTROYS Serenity/Hatred players, even when they get the opener.

 

I get that he's an outlier, but I also like the idea that one of the worst specs right now can hard counter one of the best.

 

Edited January 22, 2015 by RodneyMcNeely

It was also the worst spec for almost 3 years, so let them enjoy some time in the sun like every other spec in the game has been able to in the last 3 years. I don't doubt a nerf is coming, just saying get over it and be patient...changes will come.

 

Having some time in the sun is fine... but the disparity between a hatred assassin and even the next tier of PVP specs is so astronomically large that is breaks the game.

 

The effectiveness of DPS AC's in PVP I would rank as follows, from worst to best:

Marauder/Merc <<< Sniper <<< Operative <<< PT/Sorc/Jugg <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Hatred Assassin

Edited January 22, 2015 by DrWeebs

This. ^^^^

 

On another ironic note, Sentinels/Marauders (who are desperately in need of a survival/mobility buff) seem to be able to chew through Serenity/Hatred players quite well. I think it's because they can front-load their DPS with Zen/Fury, and because the Shad/Sin needs to get close to them for part of their damage.

 

We have a Carnage Marauder on Pot5 (named Warja) who DESTROYS Serenity/Hatred players, even when they get the opener.

 

I get that he's an outlier, but I also like the idea of one of the worst specs right now can hard counter one of the best.

 

 

It's not a hard counter. Your friend is probably a really good player who is clearly fighting bad hatred assassins. That is the problem. There is no hard counter to them.

However, the top DPS shouldn't also have the game's second best defensive CD's (2nd only to juggernaut) with 7s of force shroud available, deflect, CC immunity, combined with stealth/combat re-stealth, self-heals, force speed with CC breaker, extreme DOT pressure with assassinate ability.

 

I'd say even jugg's cooldowns are weaker than assassin's. Saber ward VS Deflection - 50%white 25%yellow VS 50% white+immunity to CC. ED vs cloak - sometimes ED is more useful, but definitely not in 1x1 fight, in addition cloak purges. Reflect VS shroud - definitely shroud is more powerful and 5 secs of it (im not sure) is a masterful utility. Enure VS overcharge - probably equal ones - but overcharge doesn't take HP back and doesn't take an utility point. In addition, sins have phase walk which is EXTREMELY powerful in arenas.

Edited January 23, 2015 by DerSchneider

Agree with the OP in every way.

There is no hard counter to them.

 

Honestly this is what annoys me more than anything about hatred right now.

 

MMO PvP is like playing chess at high speed and without turns. It's a series of blocks and counter play.

 

However playing against a Hatred assassin is like playing chess against a opponent where all of his pieces are queens.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Zoom_VI

It's not a hard counter. Your friend is probably a really good player who is clearly fighting bad hatred assassins. That is the problem. There is no hard counter to them.

I wasn't definitively saying that Hatred/Serenity has a hard counter.

 

To be more clear, I said I liked "the idea". Big difference there, and I agree with your point.

 

But to give the guy credit, Warja isn't fighting only bad players. He's mowing THOSE down, and still managing to beat the good ones if they make the mistake of trying to take him alone.

 

To be fair, though, he's running a fair amount of Alacrity (if I recall correctly) so his burst windows are just a beautiful thing to behold.

 

But, yeah. I don't think many of us have the skill or reflexes to emulate what he's doing. So, I'm with you on that.

BW/Devs take years (traditionally) to rebalance classes...."if you can't beat em, join em".

 

I hate this personally as I am a casual player and don't have all day/week/month to level a new toon on the whim. My advice if you don't either, find a good haterd sin...or 2......or 3.... to grp with and jsut support them during wz's as needed. Stealth classes should have heavy (but not obsurd) burst and then be glass cannons after their opening......this simply isn't the case with them...they have burst, pressure dps, defenses/cc unmatched...they are the best of all worlds which is kinda silly...

 

If I had the time/energy/want...i would simply retire all my toons and reroll Sin as this will not change for a long time.

 

I'm feeling more and more this way. Even on the 2nd tier specs (I've been playing lightning sorc and veng jugg) I simply cannot compete, not even close, to hatred assassins in terms of overall dps, survivability, effectiveness. Even on the FOTM lightning sorc, tunneling damage as much as possible, I don't just lose in DPS, I lose by multiple 100's of thousands of damage, while the assassin also puts out 100k prot, takes 50% more damage than I did, and is able to stay in the objectives more because of their survivability (while I'm constantly force speed kiting away and desperately trying to bubble/self-heal/cc/barrier which does keep me alive a lot, also takes me away from the teamfights and objectives).

 

Might be power leveling my assassin this weekend. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I wasn't definitively saying that Hatred/Serenity has a hard counter.

 

To be more clear, I said I liked "the idea". Big difference there, and I agree with your point.

 

But to give the guy credit, Warja isn't fighting only bad players. He's mowing THOSE down, and still managing to beat the good ones if they make the mistake of trying to take him alone.

 

To be fair, though, he's running a fair amount of Alacrity (if I recall correctly) so his burst windows are just a beautiful thing to behold.

 

But, yeah. I don't think many of us have the skill or reflexes to emulate what he's doing. So, I'm with you on that.

 

Fair enough. I'd love to see a vid or something of him play, sounds like he's really skilled.

I'd say even jugg's cooldowns are weaker than assassin's. Saber ward VS Deflection - 50%white 25%yellow VS 100% white+immunity to CC. ED vs cloak - sometimes ED is more useful, but definitely not in 1x1 fight, in addition cloak purges. Reflect VS shroud - definitely shroud is more powerful and 5 secs of it (im not sure) is a masterful utility. Enure VS overcharge - probably equal ones - but overcharge doesn't take HP back and doesn't take an utility point. In addition, sins have phase walk which is EXTREMELY powerful in arenas.

 

Omg I forgot about phase walk. HAHAHA, and it gets even better... my goodness.

Hatred Assassins need to be nerfed for the good of the game.

 

Carthago delenda est

Carthago delenda est

 

In Spanish plz

Hatred is indeed quite broken. Much more so than pts or sorcs. I am typing on my iPhone right now so I don't feel like writing a long post becusse auto correct keeps screwing me over.

Hatred is indeed quite broken. Much more so than pts or sorcs. I am typing on my iPhone right now so I don't feel like writing a long post becusse auto correct keeps screwing me over.

Off-topic: Whoever invented the auto-correct feature needs to be kicked in the cranium repeatedly, on behalf of all text users and Enlish/language teachers everywhere.

Off-topic: Whoever invented the auto-correct feature needs to be kicked in the cranium repeatedly, on behalf of all text users and Enlish/language teachers everywhere.

 

Agreed. Who cares about hatred sins? Auto correct needs nerfed. So does Microsoft word auto format.

 

/end tangent

Edited January 22, 2015 by Saikochoro