3 Dot Rotation for the Vengeance Juggernaut, Patch 5.9

The single-target rotation is seamlessly integrated into the 3 dot AOE-version, it is possible to switch during a raid/PVP-match at any time without much effort.

It gets the cooldowns of attacks AND the procs right, no matter if you fight against one or more enemies.

https://document.li/qxQo

The rotation is around since patch 1.1, only smaller adaptations were needed to keep it up to date.

My subscription will end soon, I won't be able to answer questions in this forum. If you see me on Darth Malgus you can ask me there.

Enjoy

Edit1: I uploaded a new file, fixed some typos

It should be "Dread Fortress", ofc.

###############

Single-target rotations do not perform well against groups of enemies, they are not made for that purpose.

Most players will use a seperate AOE rotation that is built around Sweeping Slashes.

Sweeping Slash has a fairly low base damage of ca. 4000 damage points. The perk Bloodbath adds a 25% damage bonus, so you end up with ~5000 damage points per activation and enemy. In fights against a low number of enemies, it does not really make sense to use that attack. Fights against 2 or 3 enemies are most common in SWTOR, neither a single-target rotation nor Sweeping Slashes handle those fights well. In my opinion, there is a huge gap.

Just a comparison:

In a ranked PVP match the Sweeping Slash deals up to 4*5000 = 20000 damage points.

Force Scream causes ca. 12500 direct damage plus ~4000 damage points as a dot that will be spread to all enemies in range.

Against 4 enemies the total damage of a Force Scream is 12500 + 4*4000 = 28500 damage points.

Impale deals similiar damage to 4 enemies. In addition there will be a 15% damage buff on dots.

20000 damage points vs. 28500, I prefer to keep Impale and Force Scream in ranked matches.

There is an option to replace Ravage and Hew with Sweeping Slashes if you can hit several enemies, but that situation does not occour very often.

In my rotation the single-target rotation overlaps with the AOE Version (-> the difference between those 2 variants is only one attack), at the beginning of a fight there is no need switch between completely different rotations. Comfy, as in real fights the number of enemies in range can change at any moment.

Heh, as clueless as with all your previous attempts on a rotation guide. Freezing Force in the rotation? In 5.9?

And talking about latencies again...

@Equeliber

Send your rotation so we can compare!

lol

You really really don't want to be using Chilling Scream for damage after it got nerfed, it deals less damage than sweeping slash does. And on the note of sweeping slash, if you really want to deal AoE damage in Vengeance, you don't spread all your dots.

Just spread Shatter dot first, then use Sweeping Slash. Before Slam comes off cooldown, you sundering and impale/force scream then spread that dot and Sweeping Slash again. The reason is that Sweeping Slash gets a big damage bonus versus bleeding targets, and the bleeds from force scream and impale aren't really worth the hassle to keep up. You also don't want to keep spreading shatter, because then you'd have to delay slam in an AoE situation, which is very very bad.

Lastly your single target rotation is far from optimal too. The general idea is to:

Impale-"filler"-Vengeful Slam-"filler"-Force Scream-"filler"

Now I wrote "fillter" because those won't strictly be fillers. You want to use Shatter on cooldown in these slots (this way you can always use Shatter, Impale, Force Scream and Vengeful Slam 100% on cooldown). You always want to fit a ravage between every two shatters and obviously you need to Sundering Assault for rage (you really don't need to worry about armor debuff falling off though, it lasts 45 seconds, you're going to need it a lot more than once every 45 seconds even if you're constantly taking damage).

@AdjeYo

Did you read the text? It clearly says that Chilling Scream is a placeholder.

Your sequence: Impale-"filler"-Vengeful Slam-"filler"-Force Scream-"filler" only spreads ONE dot.

I'm confused, because if I follow your rotation, the first Blade Storm in quickbar #2 is still on cooldown. And in the Dotspread section you alter the rotation for AoE fights and single target fights - so for what type of fights is your first rotation? Maybe create different visualisations, this would be easier to follow.

In the last section you mention Rupture, which is a Marauder ability. And why four times chilling scream, I only see it twice in your visualisation.

Basics for a single target rotation would be using Blade Storm (BS), Plasma Brand (PB), Overhead Slash (OS) and Vigilant Thrust (VT) on CD. You get this for example by starting with this order: OS -> PB -> BS -> Filler -> VT. Then always use the four abilities when they become available. All other cooldowns revolve around having enough focus for the core abilities while not wasting any. Since the nerf of Persistent Chill Freezing Force is no longer viable as a single target ability.

A Slam is added after the 11th attack in the AOE version, the cooldown of Bladestorm will end just in time.

For the single-target version you don't add an additional atttack, but swap the 2 attacks at positions #4 and #5, 2nd row.

Cast the Smash before the Bladestorm.

There is a typo in the written text, it should be "Impale" instead of Rupture. I will fix that error in the next version

@AdjeYo

Did you read the text? It clearly says that Chilling Scream is a placeholder.

 

Your sequence: Impale-"filler"-Vengeful Slam-"filler"-Force Scream-"filler" only spreads ONE dot.

That's a single target rotation, spreading dots isn't important in a single target rotation, single target dps is. And that sequence is the highest single target dps output you're going to get as Vengeance. Don't believe me, check out any top parse, they all use a similar system (you can swap around force scream, impale and vengeful slam to suit the opener, the main point is to use Force Scream, Impale, Vengeful Slam and Shatter 100% on cooldown).

As for AoE situations, you'll get more damage from spreading one dot with each Slam (alternating between shatter and impale) and using as many sweeping slashes as you can while your bleeds are active. (Obviously you'll want to use sundering and if needed saber throw to ensure you have enough rage to spread a dot with each vengeful slam).

Edit: Not that it really matters at all, but my single target rotation spreads two dots, don't forget that shatter is kept on cooldown during the "filler" slots, hence the quotation marks around filler.

Rotation for the Vengeance Juggernaut, Patch 5.9

 

The rotation is around since patch 1.1, only smaller adaptations were needed to keep it up to date.

https://document.li/5n67

 

 

My subscription will end soon, I won't be able to answer questions in this forum. If you see me on Darth Malgus you can ask me there.

 

Enjoy

Second time i see your bad guides now, the first was the merc/commando.

Please stop making useless rotations with "placeholders" or "skipping a gcd".

Its not worth the work and definitly not worth reading it.

The Jug/Guardian has one of the easiest base rotations in the game, besides fury mara. How could someone even mess that up, obviously putting so much effort in studiying the class?

Here is a link to the correct rotation, explained pretty good as well.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=944120

(The athor made some mistakes in gearing and utilities as well, but thats another story. The roation is accurate.)

I mean its literaly two posts below yours and updated for 5.7.

There were no changes for any Jug DPs Skills in 5.8 and 5.9. Why even create a new one?

Futher more: You DONT use whirling blade as opener since the utility you need to even be able to use it is a waste, because it proccs within your opener 99,99% of the time anyway and every 20secs from there.

(If it doesnt cause of really bad RNG you can always juggle around with barrier and saber throw and replace it, Since blade barrier is reset by plasma brand anyway)

Thanks for the effort, tho, but its just wrong and misleading, sorry.

Edit: Couldnt help but write an explanation of your mistakes, since i just criticized the roation, but didnt explain why.

Wanna help other people reading this, so:

A Slam is added after the 11th attack in the AOE version, the cooldown of Bladestorm will end just in time.

For the single-target version you don't add an additional atttack, but swap the 2 attacks at positions #4 and #5, 2nd row.

Cast the Smash before the Bladestorm.

version

First of all: Single-Target and AOE-Rotation are nearly the same. You just swap fillers like barrage/ravage with Cyclone Slash/Sweeping Slash (AOE fights shouldnt last long enough to get you in focus/rage trouble, for doing this). There is no need for Chilling Scream/Freezing Force, since it deals way less damage for 2 focus instead of Slashs 3.

Same goes for single target rotation: There are skills like (Vicious) Slash and Saber Throw, dealing much more damage than Freezing Force for 3 resources(If Hew/WB is ready, use it).

Even playing single-target rotation against multiple targets wont make much of diffrence because of the hard ticking dots with the spread of slam/thrust of the jug/guardian

That brings me to the next point: I dont get why you would delay your second Thrust/Slam in first place. Its one of your hardest hitting single target abilities for no cost. And if your rotation is meant to work for AOE encounters, i´m wondering even more, why you would delay it. You would miss the spread of your second dot sequence completly.

Your suggestion of adding it for AOE encounters is fine, but its MANDATORY to do it, even against single targets.

Why not include it into the roation then?

Which also solves your problem with the 3. Force Scream/Blade Storm, no need to swap anything, just to delay it one sequence later like you do with your 3. Thrust.

In short:

- Dont open with Hew/Whirling Blade unless you wanna maintain APM while closing a gap and Force Charge isnt ready

- (Dont take the needed ability to do it in first place, there are better options, use Saber Throw in said situations if Hew didnt procc from a previous fights)

- Dont use Freenzing Force/Chilling Scream at all, its damage is much worse than Slash, Saber Throw(single target) or Cyclone/Sweeping Slash(AOE)

- Use Slam/Thrust on CD, its one of your high damage skills and mandatory to spread DoTs

- Use Saber Throw if Hew/WB didnt procc, use Slash if ST is on CD and Combat Focus is ready or you are taking damage anyway.

- Learn the base roation from the link i posted, you can then finetune it with Slashes according to the situation you are in

- look at top rotations on parsely.io to learn when and why to swap Assault, Saber Throw and Slash while using Combat Focus on CD(You will deal enough DPS for nearly every content with the base rotation anyway)

@mrphstar

50% of the linked rotation consists of fillers/placeholders.

What was your point again?

@mrphstar

50% of the linked rotation consists of fillers/placeholders.

 

What was your point again?

You should learn to read texts in guides as well then.

Originaly quoted from the thread:

Fillers: The fillers aren't in fact fillers, they're a rotation within the rotation and the order is Overhead Slash > Blade Storm > Vigilant Thrust and each rotation, one of them is moved up by one to compensate for the 4th use of fillers in the Main Rotation.

 

AND since you missed it:

Example of Full Rotation: Combat Focus > Saber Throw > Force Leap > Overhead Slash > Plasma Brand > Blade Storm > Blade Barrage > Vigilant Thrust > Sundering Strike > Overhead Slash > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready) > Blade Storm > Plasma Brand > Vigilant Thrust > Blade Barrage > Overhead Slash > Sundering Strike > Blade Storm > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready) > Vigilant Thrust > Plasma Brand > Overhead Slash > Blade Barrage > Blade Storm > Sundering Strike > Vigilant Thrust > Saber Throw (Whirling Blade if ready)

I wouldnt open with Saber Throw, tho, since it just delays your DoTs for 1 GCD and you dont need the 3 extra focus/rage from ST when using Combat Foucs/Rage. I prefer to leap instantly and apply the DoTs, but it shouldnt be much of difference.

You should learn to read texts in guides as well then.

Originaly quoted from the thread:

 

 

AND since you missed it:

 

 

 

I wouldnt open with Saber Throw, tho, since it just delays your DoTs for 1 GCD and you dont need the 3 extra focus/rage from ST when using Combat Foucs/Rage. I prefer to leap instantly and apply the DoTs, but it shouldnt be much of difference.

He is right, and especially for 5.9 you dont even need a guide for vengeance, I just picked the game up after 3 years, used veng once. Swapped 2 abilities in the rotation and everything is back to normal, you literally use a filler basically every 2 full rotations unless you are just really bad at the spec

But "guides" like this really reinforce the fact that really no good jugg/guardian dps play anymore.

I get you are trying to help people but just stop, guides from even previous updates are still relevant now as the rotation as a whole is not much different

But "guides" like this really reinforce the fact that really no good jugg/guardian dps play anymore.

I fail to see how a "guide" written by a scrub on the forums correlates to this but sure, live in your own world I guess.

@mrphstar

Your rants prove nothing. And no, I did not change the rotation.

What do you do if two enemies are in range of a Smash? Do you have a solution?

Fights against 2 or 3 enemies are very common.

@mrphstar

Your rants prove nothing. And no, I did not change the rotation.

 

What do you do if two enemies are in range of a Smash? Do you have a solution?

Fights against 2 or 3 enemies are very common.

 

as i said in the other thread, for 2 or more enemies: PB + spread --> cyclone slash until smash almost off cd --> overhead slash --> smash --> cyclone slash --> pb + smash --> repeat using sundering strike and combat focus as needed.

vigi isn't difficult... dot dot dot smash by and large

@mrphstar

Your rants prove nothing. And no, I did not change the rotation.

 

What do you do if two enemies are in range of a Smash? Do you have a solution?

Fights against 2 or 3 enemies are very common.

 

Which rants?

Just asking questions so you either improve your guide or atleast prevent people to read them as long as they are wrong.

But to answer your question:

You play the (correct) single target rotation which includes the dot-spread.

Why should anyone optimize any rotation for exactly 2 enemies??

In pve its the boss damage which is important and if there are two, you either have to focus one anyway cause the mechanic wants you to(matser blaster), or they are too far away from each other to even reach them (denova tanks, ToS walkers, etc.)

In PvP focus targets are even more important, unless you wanna be that huge-damage-numbers-but-low-kill-numbers-no-impact-hero anyone loves to get in his group.

So again, when is it important to optimize you rotatoin for 2 targets?

@mrphstar

Your rants prove nothing. And no, I did not change the rotation.

 

What do you do if two enemies are in range of a Smash? Do you have a solution?

Fights against 2 or 3 enemies are very common.

 

Especially for fighting multiple enemies it is extremely important to use Vengeful Slam on cooldown. Slam does more damage than the full duration of both Impale and Force Scream's dot together, delaying it just to spread your dots to two targets is going to drop your dps.

And how many fights are there really where you want to be dpsing two bosses at the same time where they are also in dotspread range. Jarg and Sorno is the only fight where I can think of this being the case and they're not even in dotspread range the entire fight (not to mention that you can kill Jarg and Sorno while mashing your head on the keyboard as rotation).