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Group Ranked – Wasted space?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Group Ranked – Wasted space?

KalElc's Avatar


KalElc
09.17.2014 , 03:33 PM | #1
Group Ranked – Wasted space?

WARNING! I don’t want to sound overdramatic or make a another vent post here just to make this clear

As I clearly see now GR has fall out / diminished sins S1, Less team playing it these days and many people is afraid of being stumped, what is even more sickening is that there are more players queue solo rank then group rank these days. Of course, noting much distinguish them as u get same rewards and that probably one of many reason that people prefer solo rank instead to get them makes GR less attractive. Yes, we don’t have cross servers and so on but what’s the point of it when few people over all other servers have the same problem all to getter, few teams queue.

What I want to say is Group Rank is not attractive enough for people to queue let alone the difference between players / and team level out there is poor does not encourage new team to queue and practice and play because people are:
1. Get annihilated
2. Don’t have time to wait forever in queue
3. Season Rewards not appealing enough

S3, now should be the one of the best time as the class balance is on the better track now than ever even there is still some classes that are considered op but going the right direction anyway haven’t had much affect there.
I mention again that Group Rank is not attractive enough, a place where it should be the place to be very competitive, play with friends, play against your rivals and heroes, nope people go solo rank instead alone. When I thought this game was to team up, achieve stuff with somebody, not some solo casual stuff where they go in by them self.
Now question is, if no one really plays Group Rank anymore, then we can consider that 8vs8 Ranked was probably more attractive than this or will be right now if that was implemented back right now.

Question lies, is this the PvP community’s fault for lack of GR teams/players, is it up to our self to make it more attractive? Is it the community’s fault for acting douche, arrogant or superior to others that most people fled or staying away from GR?, or is it simple that there are more casual players playing this game now due to unfortunately circumstances or mind set of the players out there.

Or is it the developers that could do something about it or help out?

Can be also both the issue.

What can we in pvp community (what’s rest of it) do to make it more competitive or attractive, what can Developers do to make it more competitive or attractive again to make everyone happy, is there anything we all can do it together?

Right now how I see, Cross Server will not h be beneficial to all parts and especially in GR as it seems to be not many teams for Group Rank and question lies on how much will it be increased anyway to be a benefit to all parties.
Of course, it’s already a thread that the developers asked on what we want for rewards, a right step if they take a look on some of the ides and implement them or teak them.

Now what I would like to see in GR, make some rewards exclusive or better reward then solo rank to distinguish and make a real difference between them?

Also have the Group Rank Tab to be the first u see when u log in or click on the leaderboard?
What I want to say I personally think solo rank should not be or look like the main place for completive recognition (as for personal feedback people recognize me to be second place in marauder section Solo Rank in s1 when I want to be recognized that I came 4th in Group as I personally think it’s better achievement)

This thread is probably one of the last serous thread I will make in Act of Duty that I feel obligated to help out the community.

What I want for players that read this tread, do not post any BS! Wright / post or discuss what u think that need to be done to change / help the competitive scene in the game rate this thread too if u are all about this discussion.
(Anyway hope my post makes some sense)

[Edited & Suggestion]
Quote:
Yes I do agree on this one: Having Practice Arena queue for Gr Will be next best step for this game as it will allow people to practice their tactic moves counter u name it without getting punished by practicing in live season this might be the key to increase more team queue later on when they got enough practice and feel confident to queue for the real thing I wish this will be implemented if possible in the future, it will be a huge boost.
You’re sincerely.
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sithBracer's Avatar


sithBracer
09.17.2014 , 03:44 PM | #2
If you just want to get people to queue, an easy way would be to change the ELO system.

Make it so that only wins count towards you ELO and a loss would be treated the same way as it is in some card game I saw on twitch once. A Loss is a strike, 3 strikes and you are out for the day, can't queue ranked anymore. If people's ratings don't go down they won't be disinsentivised from queueing.

But of course this will not force players to find optimal groups, practice and actually make group ranked competitive though.
Ma'kaela - jedi shadow in training
Mákaela - assassin in the shadows

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
09.17.2014 , 03:50 PM | #3
If I were running the game, the entire structure of ranked would change. In my opinion, the central problem with ranked is that there are few legitimate ways to ensure that effective and fair matchmaking occurs. And because of that too many player check out.

So if I were to change that, it would be something like this:

1) First, I would create a new server. This server would be a PvP server and as centrally located as possible to minimize the impact of lag. This server would, like the test server, allow free transfers. The server would only have a few character slots and each season, characters would be wiped.

2) Seasons would be set up like real sporting events, where there are scheduled matches. Having it be as random as it is now makes matchmaking very difficult. Instead, there would be tournaments several times a month where teams would have to sign up in advance.

3) Teams would be bracketed by their performance. There would be different 'leagues' where the best players and newbies never meet.

4) Rewards would be staggered but being in a higher league would net better stuff. So let's say we had three tiers, Beginners, Intermediates, and Advanced. Winning in the Beginner category would probably net no greater rewards than coming in last in the Advanced category. Thus, people would not have incentives to tank their own rating when they move up.

5) I would have the community team TWITCH stream the tournaments so others can watch and learn from the best players.
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-Bob-'s Avatar


-Bob-
09.17.2014 , 04:13 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
If you just want to get people to queue, an easy way would be to change the ELO system.

Make it so that only wins count towards you ELO and a loss would be treated the same way as it is in some card game I saw on twitch once. A Loss is a strike, 3 strikes and you are out for the day, can't queue ranked anymore. If people's ratings don't go down they won't be disinsentivised from queueing.

But of course this will not force players to find optimal groups, practice and actually make group ranked competitive though.

that would be terrible, you're basically playing King of the hill until no player is allowed to Q for ranked and you're the last one left (assuming you're good enough to outlast anyone) and then you have no one left to Q against, your games for the day are done after a few hours.

I see a lack of groups on my server because most group ranked players have left the game. Those who are left that Q GR are picky about who they bring into their group, they have a comp and a system set up with specific players they want to play with (makes sense, friends). A pug ranked group will rarely be able to compete with that, people get easily frustrated or they dont see much talent out there so they stay away from GR, there is also an over saturation of specific classes, not enough variation at any given time of day. There's no way around it, Bioware ruined pvp for this game.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
09.17.2014 , 04:32 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
If you just want to get people to queue, an easy way would be to change the ELO system.

Make it so that only wins count towards you ELO and a loss would be treated the same way as it is in some card game I saw on twitch once. A Loss is a strike, 3 strikes and you are out for the day, can't queue ranked anymore. If people's ratings don't go down they won't be disinsentivised from queueing.

But of course this will not force players to find optimal groups, practice and actually make group ranked competitive though.
Before I get to my main thoughts on the matter, I need to preface with this: I believe grp rated absolutely needs to exist. I'm not the inverse of those people saying "get rid of solo." That said...

Grp rated is now, and always will be, a relative ghost town. It will only ever be a place where the very best battle back and forth AND where lesser grps make secret plans for illicit games amongst themselves (including win trading but not necessarily this). no changes are going to significantly alter this. but if they were to meaningfully change this situation, here's what I think would need to happen:

  1. Team ratings need to be established extremely quickly. this is unrealistic. 10 games is a realatively short sample, but most grps won't even get to 10 games if they keep getting stepped on by teams that are far beyond their ability. this is bad for the queue in general, because it reduces the number of mediocre teams that other mediocre teams could play and, thus, not be forced into hopeless roflstomps.
  2. populations need to increase exponentially. most servers can only muster regular attendance of ~3-4 teams in a limited window (particular days/times). that's just not enough. those 3-4 teams are the cream of the crop, and nobody else is going to get into the fray just to feed them wins and kill their own rating. plus, nobody enjoys being stepped on. if they queue when those 3-4 teams play, it becomes a guarantee. that's incentive NOT to queue.
  3. better rewards. the s1 rancor was really really cool. even with reskinned rancors now available, the s1 version looks distinct. the same can be said of the preseason 8v8 rewards (red gear and ride). of course, the gear coloring cannot be used anymore because of the dyes, but the theory remains...rancor: cool. barge: less cool, and stronghold decorations: horrible.

as you can see, there is virtually NOTHING that can/will be done to address these core issues. #1 just can't be helped. #2 BW already said no to x-server in no uncertain terms. #3 kinda got shot in the foot by craftable dyes, but a good ride that can be reskinned for the CC or w/e could work imo. I think ppl complaining about reskins are asking for too much. that said, the home decor thing was really stupid. It wouldn't have been a big deal if the rest of the rewards weren't so mediocre at best. btw: if the stuff isn't bound to legacy, most players can't/won't wear it.
Krack

Anyakaschala's Avatar


Anyakaschala
09.17.2014 , 04:46 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by sithBracer View Post
If you just want to get people to queue, an easy way would be to change the ELO system.

Make it so that only wins count towards you ELO and a loss would be treated the same way as it is in some card game I saw on twitch once. A Loss is a strike, 3 strikes and you are out for the day, can't queue ranked anymore. If people's ratings don't go down they won't be disinsentivised from queueing.

But of course this will not force players to find optimal groups, practice and actually make group ranked competitive though.
where I agree is that ELO needs to change. It also needs to change in solo queue. I mean your ranking is basically determined by 3 other random people, and if you get a couple of mercs and/or sorcs in there, might as well just mail it in.

Group ranked, basically with no set teams seems rather sketchy. I would add that with no real way to get in and practice with your team against other teams hurts group ranked.

I agree with the other poster where we need a server that is dedicated to tournaments. And that during the down times, when you aren't scheduled, you should be able to queue with others and just play, practice against other pvpers and get better. Regs are such a mixed bag, that if you are good, you just roll over the random baddies that you really don't get a chance to improve. You really only get better by playing people near, equal, or better than your skill level.

But that said, throwing people straight into ranked without a chance to really get a feel for how your team performs as a 4's just detracts from people queueing.

My hope for 3.0 is that something like this can happen. It would improve the players, and as thus better matches.

VdFExarKun's Avatar


VdFExarKun
09.17.2014 , 06:45 PM | #7
Dear Sky,

the entire arena system in SWTOR is crap. It has to be redone.

After two seasons solo ranked is nothing more than syncers, wintraders, yolo trolls and people w/o gear and/or experience. The rating in solo ranked tells you nothing and solo ranked shouldn't even have a rating imo.
Solo ranked should be either completely removed from the game or the rating should be removed and solo ranked should give you only 1/3 of the ranked coms a win gives you now, which would kinda equal a win in a normal warzone.

Rating should only exist for group ranked (4v4) and so should be the rewards, if people want a rating and a reward, they would need to q for 4v4.
Try to imagine Season 1 with the rancor mount for all 1600+, if that would have been a 4v4 only reward and people would have wanted it, I bet more people would have q'd for 4v4.

But in regards of 4v4 it has been difficult to get a team together, my latest attempt seems to have failed again due to a dissapearance of my tank and honestly I don't know anybody who could replace him. It just sucks.
My point is, to play 4v4 you always need a tank, a heal and 2 dps and herein lies the problem imo.
There are not enough good people to have many teams and even if one in your team is not good enough, you probably won't win a thing. So why should people even bother when they can just q for solo ranked and get the same rewards/rating there w/o going through the trouble of creating a team and everything else that comes with it.
Even Xserver wouldn't solve this problem.

What I would like to see, is, either the removal of solo ranked or the rating and rewards for solo ranked.
Also I'd like to see 2v2, 3v3 and 8v8 as an option to play arena, ofc this should be implemented with Xserver.
Imo in 2v2, 3v3 and 8v8, a lot more classes would be viable and a good option to use. Why?
Well I doubt that you would always need a tank and healer in 2v2 and 3v3 and might be able to q with more different setups than 4v4.
I also would like to see the creation of teams for arena and teamnames on the leaderboard instead of single characters where no one, that doesn't know the teams, knows who is playing with who in a team.
Kinda like in World of Warcraft.

But I fear we will never see something like this and that solo ranked will stay in the game as it is now and even further, I would speculate that BW will remove 4v4 at some time in the future like they did with 8v8.

alexsamma's Avatar


alexsamma
09.17.2014 , 07:13 PM | #8
Remove "ranked" from solo queue, only provide rewards to people in group ranked.
Remove rating loss for fighting against teams who have > x amount of average rating (a 1k team should not fight a 2k team, much less lose rating).
Introduce cross server or allow us to copy our characters to an arena server (middle of the country for USA players).
Give us amazing cosmetic rewards, something that everyone can see and will make everyone want to compete for.

BRING BACK 8VS8... seriously, medium scale objective based pvp is what this game does best; give us more maps, more competition, more incentives to play this game mode... and don't say group ranked didn't exist, because it was as/more lively than arena, and that was with zero attention from BW/EA.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
09.17.2014 , 07:46 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
Remove rating loss for fighting against teams who have > x amount of average rating (a 1k team should not fight a 2k team, much less lose rating)..
this would have made grp 4's more interesting in s1. never bothered after that. but I assume it would have the same dynamic as s1. what's really funny about that is the one or two grps that did regularly queue gained almost nothing (1 or 2 elo) b/c the teams who queued never played long enough to get a rating (cuz they kept running into the same team sitting around 1700). really, nobody was happy with that. the good teams couldn't climb and the lesser ones...well....never should have gone up against the other team in the first place.
Krack

JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
09.17.2014 , 07:50 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by alexsamma View Post
Remove "ranked" from solo queue, only provide rewards to people in group ranked.
Remove rating loss for fighting against teams who have > x amount of average rating (a 1k team should not fight a 2k team, much less lose rating).
Introduce cross server or allow us to copy our characters to an arena server (middle of the country for USA players).
Give use amazing cosmetic rewards, something that everyone can see and will make everyone want to compete for.

BRING BACK 8VS8... seriously, medium scale objective based pvp is what this game does best; give us more maps, more competition, more incentives to play this game mode... and don't say group ranked didn't exist, because it was as/more lively than arena, and that was with zero attention from BW/EA.
plz bw