Quoting for some obvious truth and a fact that is 100% over looked by revan fan bois.

 

and if you think Vader was trying to beat Luke, you are mistaken, he was holding himself back as he did not want to kill him.

Facts and truths do belong on the internet you two.

Skippy The Jedi Droid

/thread

And yet couldn't clearly beat an old Obi-wan who spent years in solitude unable to practice his saber skills. Yeah seems kinda overrated to me.

...If Obi-wan was capable of defeating Vader on the Death Star, why didn't he just do it? Pretty obvious that the reason Obi-wan trained Luke is because neither he, nor Yoda were capable of defeating Vader or the Emperor anymore. And don't undersell Obi-wan, he may have been in isolation for a long time, but don't forget that he is also one of the greatest Jedi ever and became a master at Soresu form, which makes him a master at survival. Even after such a long time, Obi-wan was surely still powerful. Just because Vader didn't kill him in under a minute doesn't mean that he is "overrated" But you are entitled to your opinion, as much as I may disagree.

Skippy The Jedi Droid

 

/thread

Poor Skippy.

Answers and statements in bold.

Ok, the part about Vader being "wounded" cause of his MECHANICAL arm being cut off is a lame excuse. That was th only time he was seriously hit by Luke. He would not feel any pain from it. Yes, it was his sword arm, so he wouldn't be able to lightsaber duel someone.

I love the part mentioning Galen Marek. You do know he is NOT cannon correct? So bringing him into the equation is a poor attempt at best. But we'll go ahead and use him as an example.

The part that mentions how Galen used his lightning and Vader was able to get back up followed by mentioning how Sidious has "the most powerful lightning of all the Sith" just goes to prove my point that Vader was a beast. It obviously shows that Galen's lightning was weak. And if Sidious's lightning was the most powerful, how come it didn't kill Luke when he was being shocked like 10 times longer than Vader? What could possibly be the difference between Luke and his father? Oh yeah, that's right. Vader had a giant pace maker and it took the "most powerful Sith" to disable it.

Sincerely,

Jester

And yet couldn't clearly beat an old Obi-wan who spent years in solitude unable to practice his saber skills. Yeah seems kinda overrated to me.

That wasn't a real duel, read the A New Hope novel, both Vader and Obi-Wan knew this was just a mock battle, and if there was a real duel, Obi-Wan would be dead in seconds.

Ok, the part about Vader being "wounded" cause of his MECHANICAL arm being cut off is a lame excuse. That was th only time he was seriously hit by Luke. He would not feel any pain from it. Yes, it was his sword arm, so he wouldn't be able to lightsaber duel someone.

 

I love the part mentioning Galen Marek. You do know he is NOT cannon correct? So bringing him into the equation is a poor attempt at best. But we'll go ahead and use him as an example.

 

The part that mentions how Galen used his lightning and Vader was able to get back up followed by mentioning how Sidious has "the most powerful lightning of all the Sith" just goes to prove my point that Vader was a beast. It obviously shows that Galen's lightning was weak. And if Sidious's lightning was the most powerful, how come it didn't kill Luke when he was being shocked like 10 times longer than Vader? What could possibly be the difference between Luke and his father? Oh yeah, that's right. Vader had a giant pace maker and it took the "most powerful Sith" to disable it.

 

Sincerely,

Jester

Galen Marek is canon, and Sidious was torturing Luke meaning he wasn't using his full power up until Vader picked him up.

Darth Vader is not overrated and here is a great example.

"On the shadowy volcanic moon Kalakar Six, Vader thought he would intercept a Rebel courier with the stolen plans to the first Death Star. Instead, he was met by a reborn Darth Maul and the observing dark acolytes. After dealing with Vader's stormtrooper guards, Maul then dueled the armored Sith Lord. The two appeared to be evenly matched until Vader cut Maul's saber in two. Unlike on Naboo, this time both ends of the weapon continued to function, allowing Maul to switch to the Jar'Kai style. Due to his size and armor, Vader had a difficult time countering this style, and Maul gained the advantage. Yet, in the final moments of the battle, Vader surprised Maul by stabbing his lightsaber through his own body (and, through proximity, Maul as well), damaging his own life-support circuits and almost losing his own life in the process. With Maul defeated, the observing acolytes were executed by the newly-arrived Darth Sidious himself for their "treacherous" act towards his rule."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Maul

He is just plainly the best.

Ok, the part about Vader being "wounded" cause of his MECHANICAL arm being cut off is a lame excuse. That was th only time he was seriously hit by Luke. He would not feel any pain from it. Yes, it was his sword arm, so he wouldn't be able to lightsaber duel someone.

 

I love the part mentioning Galen Marek. You do know he is NOT cannon correct? So bringing him into the equation is a poor attempt at best. But we'll go ahead and use him as an example.

 

The part that mentions how Galen used his lightning and Vader was able to get back up followed by mentioning how Sidious has "the most powerful lightning of all the Sith" just goes to prove my point that Vader was a beast. It obviously shows that Galen's lightning was weak. And if Sidious's lightning was the most powerful, how come it didn't kill Luke when he was being shocked like 10 times longer than Vader? What could possibly be the difference between Luke and his father? Oh yeah, that's right. Vader had a giant pace maker and it took the "most powerful Sith" to disable it.

 

Sincerely,

Jester

Galen is very much canon.

And it says in the ROTJ Novelization Sidious was toning down his lightning, if you want to see Sid's lightning at full strength, read the comics when he returned as a clone.

Shaak Ti was killed by Grevious on his ship..................... So yeah

Whats that got to do with anything?...Btw she was killed by Galen.

Whats that got to do with anything?...Btw she was killed by Galen.

Nah dog she was most definitely killed by Grevious. I saw it in the movie... and since the entire Star Wars saga (books, games, and all) are based off the movies, then Galen did not in fact kill Shaak Ti. As to why I posted this they were debating on how evil Vader was, but they said he killed Shaak Ti; when in fact he did not.

Nah dog she was most definitely killed by Grevious. I saw it in the movie... and since the entire Star Wars saga (books, games, and all) are based off the movies, then Galen did not in fact kill Shaak Ti. As to why I posted this they were debating on how evil Vader was, but they said he killed Shaak Ti; when in fact he did not.

You mean you saw the deleted scene of it, thats not canon because it didn't appear in the movie theres also one with Anakin kill her in the temple but it was deleted...so Galen killing Shaak Ti is canon.

Nah dog she was most definitely killed by Grevious. I saw it in the movie... and since the entire Star Wars saga (books, games, and all) are based off the movies, then Galen did not in fact kill Shaak Ti. As to why I posted this they were debating on how evil Vader was, but they said he killed Shaak Ti; when in fact he did not.

Okay, uhhh, no. Grevious did not kill Shaak Ti cause in Ep. 3 and he was only on 2 places in the movie. On his ship ... in which Shaak Ti was not there and on the planet of Utapau where he battles Obi Wan and then dies which she is also not there. Now if your talking about the Battle of Hypori then you are almost right. Grevious doesn't quite kill her but he certainly tries. Mundi saves her.

If you don't believe then check this.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shaak_Ti

Firstly to the OP. RevAn Was not all that powerful a jedi. He was a near peerless general and leader and quite the scholar. He out maneuvered Mandalore the Great as well as being a force of personality able to split the Jedi order and earned the respect of enemy and ally alike. Then went on to discover the star forge and the infinite empire as well as several lost force techniques. He was not however all that potent in the force, he was skilled and his knowledge of lost techniques gave him an edge at times, or as a duelist compared to the big names.

More generally I think Vader is both nder and over rated depending on who you ask. There are TONS of Fans who will slate Vader as the most ****** thing ever due largely to his excellent portrayal in the Original trilogy. Equally there are those who came to the fandom through the prequels and have some delusion that Maul is anything special. Hell Dooku was a more successful apprentice to Sidious. Maul had a decent "actor" and I use the term loosely as he was mostly a stuntman/stage combatant with basically no characterization. Then on to Fandolorians who insist that the Jedi purge was due to ****** mando clones not Vader.

Vader/Anakin was the prophesied chosen one. He was basically jedi jesus, child of the living force and all that, wrapped up with every classic literary hero. His Potential with the force is unmatched. He never reached that potential. Heres the thing. He chose the dark side. The dark side is quicker but not stronger. His fall limited him. He was unable to match Sidious until his redemption and even then it finally cost him his life. If he had been able to match Sidious before that he would have and he would have become the master. That is how the rule of two works. So untill he unlocked MORE (not all) of his potential he was weaker than Sidious. Sidious is the most powerful SITH. His machinations hid him from Yoda and the entire council. They sensed darkness but he was able to cloud the best and brightest the jedi's around vision of the future. Obi Wan beat down Anakin at Mustafar and left him to burn in a volcano (not a bright day for the jedi code). So he was at one point at least better than anakin. Of course as Vader in ANH he sorely outmatched Obiwan.

Vader by ANH was probably better than just about anyone with a Saber. Some of the real big names in Saber combat (like Windu) might have been a challenge then but even they would not have been a big over match. Add to that that his mastery of the force was far above those who devote themselves to the saber and that his raw power overmatched almost everyone and he's pretty clearly going to outmatch just about anyone.

I would posit that the closest match he has is Luke. Particularly Luke POST ROTJ. Luke fought Vader to a draw before the emperor stepped in. Luke was not at his peak yet at that time. So I'd say luke eventually over matches Vader. It is likewise possible that later generations would as well. The Solo children for instance.

The key thing here is that Vaders potential is unmatched (except possibly by Luke but even that is questionable) What he realized of that potential puts him firmly in the neighborhood of Sidious, and Yoda and the rest of the "greatest masters of the force ever" (Nomi, Thon, Bane etc) If he had reached his full potential he would have outmatched them all.

Now I'm not a particular fan of Vader. Personally I find Yoda and Obi wan to be far more interesting even if they are primarily Merlin figures of the mythos. But to try to argue that the literal Chosen One Savior of the Universe is over rated within the context of that universe is absurd.

you want over rated look at Boba Fett, Darth Maul, or *shudder* Starkiller (that game really shouldn't be included in any serious, or serious ish this is Star Wars after all, discussion)

He's famous because he was the chosen one.

He's famous because he's that ****** we all feared and loved from the original trilogy since the 70's.

He's famous because literally people across the world make so many references to him because he is the typical yet total ****** image of evil incarnate.

He's famous because without him, Palpatine would have never truly seized power and created the empire.

He's famous because he is Luke's father.

He is famous because he is darth vader.

Not everyone knows of Revan, darth vader is famous to star wars fans and non star wars fans alike because of who he is and what he represents. Even if Revan is/was more powerful, it is irrelevant. It's like saying "hitler is powerful but muhammud Ali is overrated, why do u not like hitler!!!", just because hitler had power like revan doesn't mean i like him.

I prefer darth vader because of all those points i said above, but mainly cause he was that scary guy in my childhood but also one that i loved and who had some awesome and memorable lines.

If Vader is anything, especially in regards to this community, he is under-rated, heavily under-rated.

Agreed.

What this thread should be called (judging by the OP) is "Is Revan Overrated? Why and Who's better?".

My answers would be "yes" and "many, many characters".

Vaders Greatest Accomplishment was the destruction of the Jedi Order on corrusant. Some say he killed hundreds of Jedi masters, but this is in fact false.

Jedi Gate Mater Jurrak was slain by Vader by surprise. When Anaken asked Jurrak where Shakk ti was, Jurrak told him she was in meditation, anaken slayed him. Giving the jedi no chance to defend himself.

Vader then killed the librarian Jocasta Nu by surprise, as she was giving him access to communication room. She barley had time to ignite her lightsaber.

The clone army meanwhile went into the foray and went to battle against the jedi. Then the clone army made there way to the High counsel chambers to clear out the remaining Jedi. (I’d imagine this is where the most powerful of the jedi where in the “High counsel chamber” however this is only speculation on my part)

Some Jedi students ambush Vader and his forces (I suggest they’re students because vader uses the force to use a statue to crush them and any Jedi of worth is not going to get crushed by a statue.)

Then he gets on a anti air craft gun and gun’s down some Jedi interceptors

Serra Keto’s a young jedi who used duel light sabers, her and Vader squared off and she almost had his head, but all in all Vader was a superior in the dance of light sabers.

Then he went and fought Jedi Drallig who was protecting some children padawans.

Then he goes and murders some children in cold blood.

Shaak ti was able to match Vader skills but was more concerned about getting the remaining survivors to safety then dueling him. So she disorientated the great **** lord and escape. (Force Unleashed, it can be interpreted that by sending Starkiller to defeat Shaak ti, he was afraid to fight her himself)

 

So the fall of the Jedi Temple… How is this an ACCOMPLISHMENT?!? The guy surprises the jedi, betrays them, and fights one jedi of worth who has some basic idea of lightsaber combat, and THAT’S IT? How are all you faboy in love with this guy? He a child killer, that’s it…

This was in a game? He murdered that sweet old librarian lady?

what i dont understand is why so manny ppl take offense at the sight or Revan defeating vader. Or vader defeating Revan... this is behond me. when cleary both situation could have happen.

IMo they are great characters, it is also behond me why someone can not like Both. yet Someone who likes a particular character is branded a fanboy... lol maybe you didnt notice it but we are all star wars fanboys no matter what. just saying.

what i dont understand is why so manny ppl take offense at the sight or Revan defeating vader. Or vader defeating Revan... this is behond me. when cleary both situation could have happen.

IMo they are great characters, it is also behond me why someone can not like Both. yet Someone who likes a particular character is branded a fanboy... lol maybe you didnt notice it but we are all star wars fanboys no matter what. just saying.

Well I enjoy the debates and arguing. Its quite fun when you argue with someone who doesn't troll hard.

And I agree with how the whole, "Just because I like somebody it makes me a fanboy."

Galen Marek is canon, and Sidious was torturing Luke meaning he wasn't using his full power up until Vader picked him up.

What makes Galen cannon? Him being in a couple video games and some books? It takes more than that. If we are going to say that any character that ever had an appearance in ANY Star Wars source makes it cannon, then Darth Maul didn't die when he was sliced in half and wen tumbling down that shaft, Obi-Wan was Luke's father, and Luke would have killed Vader to take his place as Sidious's new apprentice.

Just cause something is written about a certain character does not make it cannon. The reason why Galen is not cannon is cause there's a alternate storyline in the game where he kills Vader and becomes Sidious's new apprentice. That alone contradicts and is a violation of cannon. Here's the quote from Wikipedia:

George Lucas retains ultimate creative control over the Star Wars universe. For example, the "death" of central characters and similar changes in the status quo must first pass his screening before authors are given the go-ahead. In addition, Lucasfilm Licensing devotes considerable effort to ensure continuity between the works of various authors across multiple companies. Nothing in the Expanded Universe is supposed to contradict the films or any other part of the Expanded Universe. Upon occasion, Lucas's new films, reedited Original Trilogy films, or statements have contradicted existing EU material, and several retcons have been used to fix these inconsistencies.

Sincerely,

Jester

What makes Galen cannon? Him being in a couple video games and some books? It takes more than that. If we are going to say that any character that ever had an appearance in ANY Star Wars source makes it cannon, then Darth Maul didn't die when he was sliced in half and wen tumbling down that shaft, Obi-Wan was Luke's father, and Luke would have killed Vader to take his place as Sidious's new apprentice.

 

Just cause something is written about a certain character does not make it cannon. The reason why Galen is not cannon is cause there's a alternate storyline in the game where he kills Vader and becomes Sidious's new apprentice. That alone contradicts and is a violation of cannon. Here's the quote from Wikipedia:

 

 

 

Sincerely,

Jester

lol, boy are you in for a helluva shock......

What makes Galen cannon? Him being in a couple video games and some books? It takes more than that. If we are going to say that any character that ever had an appearance in ANY Star Wars source makes it cannon, then Darth Maul didn't die when he was sliced in half and wen tumbling down that shaft, Obi-Wan was Luke's father, and Luke would have killed Vader to take his place as Sidious's new apprentice.

 

Just cause something is written about a certain character does not make it cannon. The reason why Galen is not cannon is cause there's a alternate storyline in the game where he kills Vader and becomes Sidious's new apprentice. That alone contradicts and is a violation of cannon. Here's the quote from Wikipedia:

 

 

 

Sincerely,

Jester

I don't mean to burst your bubble... But that whole arguement that "Galen isn't canon." is false. Let me ask you.... Do you believe that Revan or the Exile is not canon? They each had a game about themselves.... And there were alternate endings.