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Devs, you're missing your window to save Operative/Scoundrel healing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Devs, you're missing your window to save Operative/Scoundrel healing
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Sinestrae's Avatar


Sinestrae
02.14.2012 , 04:28 PM | #21
I was a 50 Operative, Medic spec'd but found my role to be non-existent within my small group of friends and on my server.

Why should I keep them from progressing as fast as they wanted / needed to because they could find a healer that can do their job better than my medic as well as do that job with less effort than an Operative requires.

I decided to re-roll as a Sith Sorc and found the class to be completely over-powered. I can do things as a level 15 Sorc that I couldn't do on my level 50 Operative.

With that in mind, I decided to un-subscribe today and make my feelings known in the reasons for cancelling message.

At least that way, I know that someone will read it, even if its the Community Droid that cancels my account.

Good luck, fellow Operatives, keep up the fight that I could no longer.

Delmyr's Avatar


Delmyr
02.14.2012 , 04:38 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinestrae View Post
I was a 50 Operative, Medic spec'd but found my role to be non-existent within my small group of friends and on my server.

Why should I keep them from progressing as fast as they wanted / needed to because they could find a healer that can do their job better than my medic as well as do that job with less effort than an Operative requires.

I decided to re-roll as a Sith Sorc and found the class to be completely over-powered. I can do things as a level 15 Sorc that I couldn't do on my level 50 Operative.

With that in mind, I decided to un-subscribe today and make my feelings known in the reasons for cancelling message.

At least that way, I know that someone will read it, even if its the Community Droid that cancels my account.

Good luck, fellow Operatives, keep up the fight that I could no longer.
Seriously people like you gets on every ones nerves because if the reason you played was for the class and not the game then your logic is flawed. Besides if they really were your friends they wouldn't care and have a blast wiping with you.
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.

Doki's Avatar


Doki
02.14.2012 , 04:43 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
Seriously people like you gets on every ones nerves because if the reason you played was for the class and not the game then your logic is flawed. Besides if they really were your friends they wouldn't care and have a blast wiping with you.
I think the reason he's leaving, and the reason I'll probably leave in March with the release of 1.2, is the fact that if Bioware cannot or will not take the time to balance the game properly they've proven that its not a game to waste time on. Sure, the Ops healers are probably the first wave of exiters due to having the short end of the stick, but this will eventually work its way up the chain when people on overpowered classes realize this and start exiting for better pastures themselves.

Essentially, if they can't be bothered to fix Medical Therapy (and I doubt that it will be by March) than I can't be bothered to renew my account.
Quote:
As for Scoundrels having no tools for short burst healing, we donít agree with that assessment. A scoundrel, for example, is capable of producing rather significant burst healing output by using Upper Hand gained from Underworld Medicine or Kolto Injection to trigger an instant Emergency Medpack or Surgical probe when needed.

Solmors's Avatar


Solmors
02.14.2012 , 05:12 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by bobudo View Post
If they start releasing new end-game content without (at least) starting to fixing the Operative/Scoundrel, there will be no place for them until the 1st expansion. If that's what the Devs prefer that's fine - it's their game; I'm merely fulfilling my job of pointing out issues.
Exactly this.

I just want a dev to say one sentence. Either "sawbones/medic is working as intended" or "we acknowledge the issue and are looking into it".

This why I know if I should keep playing my sawbones waiting for them to not suck, or to roll a sage. If 1.2 rolls around and still nothing, I'll have made a permanent switch to sage at least until the first expansion.

Menisong's Avatar


Menisong
02.14.2012 , 05:24 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Solmors View Post

I just want a dev to say one sentence. Either "sawbones/medic is working as intended" or "we acknowledge the issue and are looking into it".

This why I know if I should keep playing my sawbones waiting for them to not suck, or to roll a sage. If 1.2 rolls around and still nothing, I'll have made a permanent switch to sage at least until the first expansion.
Agree 100% with the first part. For me personally, if I feel inclined to make my level 25 sorc my new main..then there will be no switching back to the operative post expansion.

bobudo's Avatar


bobudo
02.14.2012 , 05:50 PM | #26
First, I'm not asking the the class be made over powered. Period. Never have, never will. In every suggestion I've made regarding Operative/Scoundrel healing, I've done my best to make balanced recommendations that take into account the design philosophy for the class (as best as I can infer it from the mess we have) and the strength of my recommended action vs. the other classes.

I'm saying that if the devs continue to do nothing, this class will flatline; thus when they later get around to trying to revive the class by implementing the changes we've suggested, they will need to make the class a FOTM healing class to draw us back from our Sorcerers, or there will be no reason to change back to the abandoned, ungeared toon (nor will groups see any reason to replace a Sorcerer/Sage with an Operative/Scoundrel if it's merely balanced - if it ain't broke . . . )

Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
That being said if they don't have a plan what is the point of telling the population that other than confirming there is a problem there by CONFIRMING there is a problem making the situation worse. It would give fuel rather than just fumes to those people who want to leave everyone but sorcs out of their group.
The Point of Communicating With Your Customers on Issues That You Don't Have A Fix For:
  1. So that your customers feel heard instead of ignored - Currently, everyone involved in this issue (that isn't you apparently) is frustrated and angry. Only part of that frustration is because of how unbalanced the class is - it seems that we all understand that balance is an ever going process that will likely never be finished. A majority of frustration and all of the anger (imo, anyone else feel free to correct me) is because we've been developing this discussion for weeks without even an acknowledgement of the issue.
  2. To give Players the ability to make informed decisions regarding their class choices - I doubt I'm alone in feeling a bit misled in the whole "All classes are equal in the roles the spec into" line, because that's what we relied on in selecting to play an Operative/Scoundrel healer. By communicating a design strategy for the class, it would allow those of us who want to be equally rewarded for our healing efforts to make a decision about continuing the play the class or moving on to playing the dominant healer class.
  3. To engage in dialogue with those familiar with the problem - You'll never hear me say I expect every dev to be intimately knowledgeable about every issue; furthermore, the more complicated the issue, the more likely complex the understanding required to properly address the problem. Unless a dev has played a level 50 Operative/Scoundrel healer, I don't expect them have as good of ideas about fixing the class as those of us "in the trenches" do. In this respect, the forums provide the dev with a fantastic opportunity to pick the brains of people who understand the class in ways they might not - indeed the ideas that people have proposed on these forums are likely the key to fixing the class; the devs ought to reach out to those who authored the ideas they like so they can pick their brains on implementation.
  4. Because we've earned it - it's true, we have. We've developed this issue in the one of the most comprehensive fashions I've ever seen. We've collaborated, debated and discussed a host of problems related to Operative/Scoundrel healing, and subsequently generated dozens of ideas about how to fix those problems. We've followed every rule; kept (in general) from whining, making baseless accusations and lashing out; and done our best to remain positive and constructive. In short, we've behaved in just the fashion the devs want the community to act when discussing issues, and we've earned a response that at the very least acknowledges our hard work (even if that response is "Nice work; but working as intended.")

You're placing your faith too blindly in the developers: they are not super-human, and cannot be expected to know about every facet or every problem. All I'm trying to do here is let them know just how dire this problem is given the impending consequences of failing to address the healer imbalance.

Yes, it would be easy to dismiss all of this as drama and hyperbole; I assure you it is neither: my intentions are not to troll, but to attempt to underscore a trend in this game that is only going to get further out of control if ignored.

If the devs choose not to address the issue, that is their choice and I respectfully abide by it (though I would vehemently disagree); but until I see otherwise from a dev, I'm going to assume that they didn't develop the Operative/Scoundrel as a healing class just to see it fall-off ~ 2 months after launch, but that is what is happening, and thus the class needs to be revisited asap before it's too late.
Bioware hates healing such that they won't take any healing problems seriously. Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

bobudo's Avatar


bobudo
02.14.2012 , 05:51 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Doki View Post
I think the reason he's leaving, and the reason I'll probably leave in March with the release of 1.2, is the fact that if Bioware cannot or will not take the time to balance the game properly they've proven that its not a game to waste time on. Sure, the Ops healers are probably the first wave of exiters due to having the short end of the stick, but this will eventually work its way up the chain when people on overpowered classes realize this and start exiting for better pastures themselves.
That and I don't want to play Star Wars: The Sorcerer's Republic.
Bioware hates healing such that they won't take any healing problems seriously. Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

Delmyr's Avatar


Delmyr
02.14.2012 , 06:24 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Doki View Post
I think the reason he's leaving, and the reason I'll probably leave in March with the release of 1.2, is the fact that if Bioware cannot or will not take the time to balance the game properly they've proven that its not a game to waste time on. Sure, the Ops healers are probably the first wave of exiters due to having the short end of the stick, but this will eventually work its way up the chain when people on overpowered classes realize this and start exiting for better pastures themselves.

Essentially, if they can't be bothered to fix Medical Therapy (and I doubt that it will be by March) than I can't be bothered to renew my account.
The funny part is that even though people like you who obviously don't like the game in the first place are leaving hundreds more are taking your place and the people that actually enjoy the game will enjoy the game. The fact is that even though a smile is contagious a frown is the same way so stop propagating your unhappiness. State your complaints and get out without trying to change other people's mind to be unhappy the way you are even though they enjoy the game
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.

plompkin's Avatar


plompkin
02.14.2012 , 06:27 PM | #29
Buff the buffs and nerf the nerfs, I say. I'm not one to agree with such blatant outcries for developer support, but Operative/Scoundrel heals are bugged and broken bad. This definitely needs looking at.

Delmyr's Avatar


Delmyr
02.14.2012 , 06:46 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by bobudo View Post
First, I'm not asking the the class be made over powered. Period. Never have, never will. In every suggestion I've made regarding Operative/Scoundrel healing, I've done my best to make balanced recommendations that take into account the design philosophy for the class (as best as I can infer it from the mess we have) and the strength of my recommended action vs. the other classes.

I'm saying that if the devs continue to do nothing, this class will flatline; thus when they later get around to trying to revive the class by implementing the changes we've suggested, they will need to make the class a FOTM healing class to draw us back from our Sorcerers, or there will be no reason to change back to the abandoned, ungeared toon (nor will groups see any reason to replace a Sorcerer/Sage with an Operative/Scoundrel if it's merely balanced - if it ain't broke . . . )



The Point of Communicating With Your Customers on Issues That You Don't Have A Fix For:
  1. So that your customers feel heard instead of ignored - Currently, everyone involved in this issue (that isn't you apparently) is frustrated and angry. Only part of that frustration is because of how unbalanced the class is - it seems that we all understand that balance is an ever going process that will likely never be finished. A majority of frustration and all of the anger (imo, anyone else feel free to correct me) is because we've been developing this discussion for weeks without even an acknowledgement of the issue.
  2. To give Players the ability to make informed decisions regarding their class choices - I doubt I'm alone in feeling a bit misled in the whole "All classes are equal in the roles the spec into" line, because that's what we relied on in selecting to play an Operative/Scoundrel healer. By communicating a design strategy for the class, it would allow those of us who want to be equally rewarded for our healing efforts to make a decision about continuing the play the class or moving on to playing the dominant healer class.
  3. To engage in dialogue with those familiar with the problem - You'll never hear me say I expect every dev to be intimately knowledgeable about every issue; furthermore, the more complicated the issue, the more likely complex the understanding required to properly address the problem. Unless a dev has played a level 50 Operative/Scoundrel healer, I don't expect them have as good of ideas about fixing the class as those of us "in the trenches" do. In this respect, the forums provide the dev with a fantastic opportunity to pick the brains of people who understand the class in ways they might not - indeed the ideas that people have proposed on these forums are likely the key to fixing the class; the devs ought to reach out to those who authored the ideas they like so they can pick their brains on implementation.
  4. Because we've earned it - it's true, we have. We've developed this issue in the one of the most comprehensive fashions I've ever seen. We've collaborated, debated and discussed a host of problems related to Operative/Scoundrel healing, and subsequently generated dozens of ideas about how to fix those problems. We've followed every rule; kept (in general) from whining, making baseless accusations and lashing out; and done our best to remain positive and constructive. In short, we've behaved in just the fashion the devs want the community to act when discussing issues, and we've earned a response that at the very least acknowledges our hard work (even if that response is "Nice work; but working as intended.")

You're placing your faith too blindly in the developers: they are not super-human, and cannot be expected to know about every facet or every problem. All I'm trying to do here is let them know just how dire this problem is given the impending consequences of failing to address the healer imbalance.

Yes, it would be easy to dismiss all of this as drama and hyperbole; I assure you it is neither: my intentions are not to troll, but to attempt to underscore a trend in this game that is only going to get further out of control if ignored.

If the devs choose not to address the issue, that is their choice and I respectfully abide by it (though I would vehemently disagree); but until I see otherwise from a dev, I'm going to assume that they didn't develop the Operative/Scoundrel as a healing class just to see it fall-off ~ 2 months after launch, but that is what is happening, and thus the class needs to be revisited asap before it's too late.
First, the OP wanted the class OP.
Second, tell the public that there is a problem but they don't have a plan will make the problem worse. It would give proof to the people who only want the best in their group at all times. There are a lot of people who don't frequent the forums who get told hey your class sucks even though you can do normal fine
Third, I want a confirmation and no I'm not putting my faith blindly in human devs because humans are fallible. I am just sick and tired of people comming to the forums to complain by making new threads that say I'm more important than any one else so I don't need to put my ideas in a similar topic. Is adding your voice to many so hard that you want to blanket the forums with discontent that the people who don't care about it have to read about every other line in the topic list? To me it says hey I'm a self important jerk so I want other people to be unhappy with me
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.