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5.3 DPS changes


Eloi_BG's Avatar


Eloi_BG
07.17.2017 , 08:27 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Wait is gunnery really worse than tk sages now? Er arsenal and lightning, same difference.
Yes it is, check parsely (even un-bugged parses for TK)
Nemio the Acceptable Player

trabble's Avatar


trabble
07.17.2017 , 08:47 AM | #22
madness buff is too small and broken with another sorc in raid group so no - its not even a buff - with the nerfs to survivability this "buff" is in fact a nerf.

all they achieved with this "class balance" is frustration all along and players stop playing or unsubbing again.
:

Martin's Avatar


Martin
07.17.2017 , 12:17 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Eloi_BG View Post
Read the original post and see it's not just a "swap to IO thing". I was playing IO and will continue to play IO on most fights. But for some fights or some specific roles in some fights, IO just doesn't really cut it. Arsenal is now the worst spec DPS wise, and a few hundred DPS under MM and un-bugged lightning (more than a few under bugged lightning).
This. I'm fine with playing IO, and having to switch between spec depending the fight, but arsenal is complete garbage now. I don't care if I now have to mostly be dummy fighting, while the rest of the dps on my group take care of adds/target swapping. It just takes a lot of flexibility out of our group.
<Nekawa> - Jedi Covenant

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
07.19.2017 , 03:08 PM | #24
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they remove casts from melee to compensate for them having to move more? Have you tried to interrupt a melee class lately?
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Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
07.19.2017 , 03:23 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they remove casts from melee to compensate for them having to move more? Have you tried to interrupt a melee class lately?
Interrupts never were great vs melee even the few things you could.

Don't recall interrupting a Master Strike.

Interrupts are literally free defences vs sage/commando dps or vs a healer. Do absolutely nothing vs other classes except generic objective channels.

Some classes get considerably more interrupt capability than others. Lower cooldown on dedicated interrupt, bonus interrupt on gapcloser, extra CC to break casts, physics to again break casts, vanish to break casts (vs sage/commando dps only) or even targetless speed boosts to LOS break casts.

Of course I didn't mention slinger dps because they have 100% interrupt immunity and large quantities of CC immunity to boot.
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
07.20.2017 , 05:06 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
Interrupts never were great vs melee even the few things you could.

Don't recall interrupting a Master Strike.

Interrupts are literally free defences vs sage/commando dps or vs a healer. Do absolutely nothing vs other classes except generic objective channels.

Some classes get considerably more interrupt capability than others. Lower cooldown on dedicated interrupt, bonus interrupt on gapcloser, extra CC to break casts, physics to again break casts, vanish to break casts (vs sage/commando dps only) or even targetless speed boosts to LOS break casts.

Of course I didn't mention slinger dps because they have 100% interrupt immunity and large quantities of CC immunity to boot.
Maybe I need to stop being bitter today... anyway, sage dps are squishy as crap so I'll grant you that one. I'm rarely running around trying to interupt them anyway as I'm usually focusing interrupts on the healer. Just saying interrupting the healer is a main method for actually being able to kill the healer or as is often the case I've found, trying to keep the healer occupied while killing a tank or while the rest of your group is off trying to kill something else. Commandos vs my Vigi guardian? Ooh sorry I interrupted you and forced you to use one of you heal to fulls.

Yes some classes have more interrupts than others. Some classes also have more ways of getting away from melee than others. There are speed ups on dps, kiting is very much a thing, heck even the squishy sages have their teleport (sorry shadows). Also an immobilize on a melee is practually a stun since I can't continue hiting a ranged class out of melee range. Ergo, you can continue hitting me or healing while I'm helpless to hurt you. Therefore in this category I'd say melee vs ranged are fairly even. The possible unfairness ranged suffers is the gap bioware apparently designed into melee sustained vs ranged burst. Is it too big? Based on what I'm reading on the forums probably.

I also agree with you on slinger dps they are exactly what you say they are. To be fair the crap ones that try to face tank me are dead quickly. I will add they are also very often immune to leap.

Eloi_BG's Avatar


Eloi_BG
07.20.2017 , 08:09 AM | #27
Smh.... Maybe one day I'll understand why people go to commando / mercenary sub-forum, find a thread about Arsenal DPS numbers and a general remark about buff vs nerf debate (both directly related to a PVE setting) and start arguing about interrupts.

Also as of today (more than 1 week after 5.3), there is still no arsenal parse that reaches 9.2k.

And really the overall DPS (and sorc healing) nerf is very frustrating progression wise, struggling on bosses you had on farm for a few weeks sucks...
Nemio the Acceptable Player

DarthZaul's Avatar


DarthZaul
07.20.2017 , 11:05 AM | #28
The changes sounded fairly moderate on paper but in reality they are way to big a nerf. My dummy DPS went down by 600 so when my sorc gets equivalent gear they will probably be within maybe 100-150 DPS difference. I think it's the proc not buffing blazing bolts any more that might be the problem.
Ever from a PVP perspective, merc OP defense was the issue, not their damage.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
07.20.2017 , 08:52 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthZaul View Post
The changes sounded fairly moderate on paper but in reality they are way to big a nerf. My dummy DPS went down by 600 so when my sorc gets equivalent gear they will probably be within maybe 100-150 DPS difference. I think it's the proc not buffing blazing bolts any more that might be the problem.
Ever from a PVP perspective, merc OP defense was the issue, not their damage.
Sounded moderate to who?

It was a huge hit on the biggest damage ability of the spec plus a large crit damage reduction plus flexibility being crushed by forcing resource CDs to be burned in rotation on top of more default attacks being required to sustain output. That last bit simply by slapping 25% cost increase on, again, the largest damage ability of the spec.

This was all visible as the sun by just looking at the patchnotes.

Sustained output down, burst down, resource flexibility down. Required to work harder and still cap out at the bottom of the dps ladder.

Whoever believed it was moderate was an idiot. I called the whole patch a disgusting crippling of ranged damage in favour of melee because it was obvious. But who cares what players think, it was planned in advance and pasted out week by week without giving a ****.

The changes to Assault are even more disgusting because it gets crushed down without being anything special anywhere in the first place.
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AriaHimmelberg's Avatar


AriaHimmelberg
08.20.2017 , 01:29 PM | #30
I have played this game since the beginning. I tried every single class and spec as the game expanded and changed. Not once did I unsub until now, even when I wasn't playing much do to RL things. I stayed because I thought they were at least putting some effort into balancing the game from time to time, and they kept promising new solo and group oriented endgame content from time to time. So I supported the game thinking we would be getting more and more content as time went on, not just tidbits.

The game changed so much from the beginning until now. Some changes were good, some changes were just meh nothing special, and some changes were just huge mistakes that took away from the fun game play we all enjoyed and should've been reversed and/or changed to meet some middle ground before they went live.

The devs sure made it sound like they were finally going to get a grip on balancing, and the classes would finally mirror the intended targets, but we're still seeing overpowered and underwhelming classes. The point of balancing classes is not just to ridiculously reduce the flavor of the month dps by totally gutting multiple abilities at once like with the commando and sage until it is almost useless in PvE, but rather to bring into the target dps range of it's class type. while keeping the class's unique abilities, passives and utilities in mind. Each class and spec should have enough dps, defense and utility within it to be an asset in any given boss fight or in any PvP match if they play their class well. We shouldn't see skilled PvP/PvE players here complaining that both PvP / PvE is unbalanced. It should've been fixed in a PTS envronment ages ago. Most players don't enjoy killing an experienced player in PvP who is playing an underpowered class, because they always have the truth nagging in the back of their minds that the other person's class being weaker is contributing to their own win. Most players want to see balanced classes just so each kill can count as an optimal usage of good sense, dps, and dcd's.

After all these years, overnerfing and overbuffing should no longer be happening, and bugs shouldn't be running for weeks and months on live servers leaving certain classes overpowered and others underperforming. Every few weeks some other class is getting the massive reduction while others remain overpowered and for what? if the classes aren't coming closer together in dps according to their class type there is no point to the nerfs, or is this all just a systematic reduction by the devs until finally all or almost all classes are underperforming, thus creating a gateway to introduce a new tier of gear in the failure of this RnG Command System instead of putting out more content for us??? 1 boss here and there, 1 flashpoint here and there and 1 or 2 new pvp arenas that were copy pasted from other content isn't very much for new content. There is a reason why other games are taking over the market. They put out way more content on a regular basis and they balance PvP and PvE seperately from each other which should've been implemented here long ago.

Some people say It takes a big man to admit a mistake and an even bigger one to fix it, but I also think it actually takes someone who cares enough about it in the first place to get others motivated to help him fix it. Plenty of players are reaching out in the forums to devs. So the question here is do they care enough to do what's necessary to get the game onto the right track?