Going back for a moment to the inability of many (most?) straight white cis men to see the pervasive male-centricity of our society and to understand how others might feel about that…

I recently stumbled upon this brilliant piece of satire written in 1986. Why I never saw it before mystifies me.

A Person Paper on Purity in Language

Very entertaining reading !

Before I go to work:

"After all, white is a mixture of all the colors of the rainbow, including black."

that is a beautiful, truly, a master example of Poe's Law in action (and thank the deities his pen name William Satire, he writes with the same logical construction as some people who genuinely believe what he's saying. The name makes is obvious, but people believe in The Onion, so... you know...)

So oddly familar...

For years I have collected examples of sexist language, and in order to produce this piece, I dipped into this collection, selected some of the choicest, and ordered them very carefully.

and that would be why.

You know what's like beating your face into a wall covered in spikes?

Trying to not be ignored by Bioware. That is all.

Game Freak should just make a Pokemon MMO and claim the internet over. *throws up hands and walks away in despair* At least Phil is nice! Phil asked me to fill out a survey! Phil cares!

The only way these romance options you ask for would be ok with me is upon creation a question is asked what sex you prefer cause id rather not see that option when i play and or ifits a toggle switch maybe so that ill never have to see the options if idont like itand someone that wants it can have it without bothering anyone else.

BUT im sure it would be alot of work and doubt it will be done... but its the way id be comfortable with it.

Going back for a moment to the inability of many (most?) straight white cis men to see the pervasive male-centricity of our society and to understand how others might feel about that…

 

I recently stumbled upon this brilliant piece of satire written in 1986. Why I never saw it before mystifies me.

 

A Person Paper on Purity in Language

 

Very entertaining reading !

So as a (if you want to call it CIS man since we now have our own acronym now, yay). As much as we are painted as the devils of the sexual spectrum if that's what we are calling it tonight . We tend to be the core of many things just for the plain fact that we are the most dominant physically and and equally as smart as the other groups (generally) and this wonderful country was mostly built with our Ideas and our backs at least in it's early creation . And it sucks that we are so marginalized now by the groups that see us as predatorial and the source of the problems to all their woes in life. Out of all the groups that exist we are still the most physically dominant and have as many intelligent people as any other group meaning we are totally self sufficient in every area yet we don't take over we don't steam roll everyone else because the true beauty that makes the cis , straight male is that we love just as strong or stronger in my opinion than anybody else which is what allows total take over by the most dominant of human groups from happening we are truly a virtuous group of humans. If you take this as a slam you totally miss my point or do not really care and have a clear agenda. Regardless It gets really old that some people want me to feel guilty for being a cis or straight male born male. I am a son ,a father ,a friend and someone who would give the shirt off their back or food off my plate to anyone no matter who or what group they are from . I am proud to be a man I will not allow anyone to take that from me or blame people like me for others problems!

You know what's like beating your face into a wall covered in spikes?

 

Trying to not be ignored by Bioware. That is all.

 

Game Freak should just make a Pokemon MMO and claim the internet over. *throws up hands and walks away in despair* At least Phil is nice! Phil asked me to fill out a survey! Phil cares!

Maybe we should copy the DOTA players and act like total idiots on random Facebook pages for attention. Get rid of some frustation... because BW wouldn't notice. The don't even remove the "must have toggle" posts anymore.

So as a (if you want to call it CIS man since we now have our own acronym now, yay). As much as we are painted as the devils of the sexual spectrum if that's what we are calling it tonight . We tend to be the core of many things just for the plain fact that we are the most dominant physically and and equally as smart as the other groups (generally) and this wonderful country was mostly built with our Ideas and our backs at least in it's early creation . And it sucks that we are so marginalized now by the groups that see us as predatorial and the source of the problems to all their woes in life. Out of all the groups that exist we are still the most physically dominant and have as many intelligent people as any other group meaning we are totally self sufficient in every area yet we don't take over we don't steam roll everyone else because the true beauty that makes the cis , straight male is that we love just as strong or stronger in my opinion than anybody else which is what allows total take over by the most dominant of human groups from happening we are truly a virtuous group of humans. If you take this as a slam you totally miss my point or do not really care and have a clear agenda. Regardless It gets really old that some people want me to feel guilty for being a cis or straight male born male. I am a son ,a father ,a friend and someone who would give the shirt off their back or food off my plate to anyone no matter who or what group they are from . I am proud to be a man I will not allow anyone to take that from me or blame people like me for others problems!

Well the point is not that cis white straight males are awful – in fact some of my favourite relatives are cis white straight males (hi there Dad ! ).

But even Dad says things like “Why do you women make such a fuss about chairperson and firefighter instead of chairman and fireman, or keep on calling actresses actors. Don’t you have better things to fight about, for God’s sake?”

And what he doesn’t realize is that the language sounds fine to him because he’s a man and all that stuff fits him. He just can’t see what it feels like to those of us who aren’t men. Straight men, that is, because my gay male friends know only too well what it’s like to live in a world where heterosexuality is the norm and is reflected in the assumptions that everyone around them makes – so they totally get what male-centric language feels like if you're not male.

That was the point of that satire – to let straight men know what our male-centric English language sounds like to a woman.

Maybe we should copy the DOTA players and act like total idiots on random Facebook pages for attention. Get rid of some frustation... because BW wouldn't notice. The don't even remove the "must have toggle" posts anymore.

"masculinity is so fragile that apparently even the slightest brush with the feminine destroys it" (source)

One could say the same of heterosexuality - the hint of the non-hetero suddenly sends the cishet into a spiral of gender dysphoria and bi-curiosity.

Also - to Mr. Wall of White Men Are Great And Brilliant, "cis" is not an acronym (though, reading your post, I can see why you loved to leap at "clinically isolated syndrome" and cling to it like a raft in an empty, incredibly dry, nowhere-near-the-sea, street), but rather the use of a Latin term meaning "on the side of" - literally in this case "cisgender" means "on the side of (the assigned) gender" - it refers to those people who are comfortable with their assigned birth gender, which is based on their birth sex. But well done for using this as a soapbox to tell us how great white men are and how they're not at all responsible for any of the wrongs in this world. *claps* well done.

"masculinity is so fragile that apparently even the slightest brush with the feminine destroys it" (source)

Loss of menergy? It's all part of the conspiracy.

Loss of menergy? It's all part of the conspiracy.

And as well all know, "menergy" is the source of heterosexuality. That's why when women don't have enough contact with men, they spontaneously turn into lesbians. And it's also why men keep trying to insert themselves into feminist spaces and talks, to prevent the loss of women to them.

Wait a minute...

"masculinity is so fragile that apparently even the slightest brush with the feminine destroys it" (source)

 

One could say the same of heterosexuality - the hint of the non-hetero suddenly sends the cishet into a spiral of gender dysphoria and bi-curiosity.

I beg to differ. Not all cishet people are so insecure in their own sexuality. As one example, my (straight, with a girlfriend he loves) housemate flirts with me constantly, without a twinge of self-consciousness.

I beg to differ. Not all cishet people are so insecure in their own sexuality. As one example, my (straight, with a girlfriend he loves) housemate flirts with me constantly, without a twinge of self-consciousness.

The quote is with concerns to how masculinity is portrayed in media, and how the hyper-masculine (the insecure male) treats himself and others (you'll notice that a lot of the more traditional homophobia and homophobic remarks tend to draw parallels to women, because women and femininity are "bad things"), not on an individual basis. The quote comes from an article on a series of adverts which literally portray the above - men "dying" from overexposure to "feminine" things.

My adaptation of it is with regards to people constantly asking for a toggle - so that they do not have to encounter the "dreaded" homosexuality. It's making fun of people who feel the need to marginalise others because they are so insecure about themselves, not saying that everyone who is cishet is inherently insecure because of it.

I would have thought as much was obvious from the context; indeed, given that on one page previous toggles were brought up again, despite forum rules saying that discussion of them is not allowed.

Of course, Mr. Musco's more relaxed atmosphere does seem to now mean that such homophobic sentiments are allowed. On the flip side, we have been able to enjoy the more lax moderation, as can clearly be seen by our previous pages discussing the sex and gender spectrums, race representation and casting in the general media, the representation of women in video games and the wider media, as well as the intersectionality thereof with LGBT persons.

Sorry, I'm kind of mentally stuck there at the moment because people keep bringing up that I'm in that "you should totally fall pregnant, right now" age bracket and then keep pestering me why I don't want to be a mum and that I should totally be a mum because once I get pregnant I'll magically love children. Or something.

 

Sorry for the creepy.

Then after the years roll by the pestering turns hostile and it suddenly becomes 'selfish not to' and necessary to be a 'biologically fulfilled woman' -_- Ugh. (I hope this doesn't happen to you personally. It shouldn't happen to anyone).

OT: Bioware, your silence feels eerie sometimes, it really does.

P.S. Still mad about Cytharat. S.h.i.t, do you think they even bother to remove swears anymore? Another infraction would be worth it just to see at this point.

Then after the years roll by the pestering turns hostile and it suddenly becomes 'selfish not to' and necessary to be a 'biologically fulfilled woman' -_- Ugh. (I hope this doesn't happen to you personally. It shouldn't happen to anyone).

 

OT: Bioware, your silence feels eerie sometimes, it really does.

 

P.S. Still mad about Cytharat. S.h.i.t, do you think they even bother to remove swears anymore? Another infraction would be worth it just to see at this point.

We briefly discussed adoption, but mostly for the factor "the care system is utter crap, it's better to just help a kid out, rather than add to the problem" than "we want children and can't afford IVF." What pisses me off royally (I've snapped at the two co-workers (unfortunately, both women, men seemingly have the sense not to ask) who have asked) when people go "but what if you did become pregnant, what would you do?" - as if my personal opinion on abortion is their business. I swear to god.

My mum's awesome though. Not a big fan of snakes, but she's not asking about grandchildren.

To Bioware's silence - they posted only about the maintenance and *whee* introducing in-game CC purchases, not the issues people are having, nor clarifying the necessity for a full-price purchases prior to half-off. And they love their Cartel Market.

I've been pestering them about male slave gear recently, as well, and they've been ignoring me. We get away with a lot in this thread because they don't read it, which is both a blessing and a curse.

I'm pretty sure curses still just get blanked out: ****. Whoops, sorry, I mispelt Sith. And Aelix was using an acronym... "Still hoping it's true". Because it's been 10 months since the 'more details to come!' and you've said S.F.A, Bioware. Hello... is this thing on?

(I think they're too busy ignoring the people asking why they can't use Paypal for their impulse buy in-game Coin thing. I believe that's the technical term.)

Since I'm already cursing, may as well mention it : Tat, you upset the ****wits by not agreeing with their companion idea. Only non-"Princess Snowflakes" are allowed an opinion in that thread?

Companion idea? You mean the Zeltrons? I haven't checked yet.

Edit: Haha, player choice is apparently a bad thing. What the hell XD

In which Tatile post a tatty rant about the Bechdel Test. Couple this with the newly inflated rumours (which I also rant about, I've been busy today) about Star Wars, Episode VII's possible casting, and it's vaguely SWTOR related.

Obviously, with the PC coming and going, this game passes both the Bechdel and Sexy Lamp Tests, but what about NPC only interactions? I'm of the mind it does, but I haven't played through any of the class stories in a while, and most of the conversations we see are with the PC. Would be interesting to see (I'm also of the mind that a lot of the dialogue in places may have been written first, and then later character details finalised, so General Garza may have flipped between being a man and a woman, a human or a zabrak, etc.)

In which Tatile post a tatty rant about the Bechdel Test. Couple this with the newly inflated rumours (which I also rant about, I've been busy today) about Star Wars, Episode VII's possible casting, and it's vaguely SWTOR related.

 

Obviously, with the PC coming and going, this game passes both the Bechdel and Sexy Lamp Tests, but what about NPC only interactions? I'm of the mind it does, but I haven't played through any of the class stories in a while, and most of the conversations we see are with the PC. Would be interesting to see (I'm also of the mind that a lot of the dialogue in places may have been written first, and then later character details finalised, so General Garza may have flipped between being a man and a woman, a human or a zabrak, etc.)

Most coversations a Female PC has with companions and NPC does pass the bechdel test, but I think it only passes it because the story has been written for Male PCs. When it comes to romance it is nearly impossible to get around the fact that your Female PC is a walking child factory.

So SWTOR passes the bechdel test, but really only because it's written for males, who don't talk to males or females about other males, because that would be an emasculation problem.

Fair point, Fabiyun. If we use Corso as our example, the entire Smuggler storyline would have been written, categorically, for a male Smuggler - the introduction of the idea of a female character came much later, after a lot of the initial dialogue and interactions were fleshed out.

This does explain why, while the majority of companions are male, it is only the female (biological entities, not artificial entities, like SCORPIO) that are 100% romance options.

You can have men talking to other (men) about men, but the context in which the Bechdel Test is usually applied (romance/sexual attraction), yes, SWTOR could not possibly have that. Vague homoerotic references would cause so ever-so fragile masculine straight guy* to fall and crumple into a confused, genderless mess (quick! Hide the bears!)

*and before anyone starts to come in and say they're a hyper-masculine straight guy who doesn't crumple a the sight of another man's gorgeous butt, this is the generalisation that games and other media companies work with when making content and subjects for cishet male audiences. Remember: Hollywood thinks you're racist, sexist and homophobic. Doesn't mean you are, it means they're marketing to a construction of you. Congratulations, you're being objectified by the media that worships you and vice-versa.

Fair point, Fabiyun. If we use Corso as our example, the entire Smuggler storyline would have been written, categorically, for a male Smuggler - the introduction of the idea of a female character came much later, after a lot of the initial dialogue and interactions were fleshed out.

 

This does explain why, while the majority of companions are male, it is only the female (biological entities, not artificial entities, like SCORPIO) that are 100% romance options.

 

You can have men talking to other (men) about men, but the context in which the Bechdel Test is usually applied (romance/sexual attraction), yes, SWTOR could not possibly have that. Vague homoerotic references would cause so ever-so fragile masculine straight guy* to fall and crumple into a confused, genderless mess (quick! Hide the bears!)

 

*and before anyone starts to come in and say they're a hyper-masculine straight guy who doesn't crumple a the sight of another man's gorgeous butt, this is the generalisation that games and other media companies work with when making content and subjects for cishet male audiences. Remember: Hollywood thinks you're racist, sexist and homophobic. Doesn't mean you are, it means they're marketing to a construction of you. Congratulations, you're being objectified by the media that worships you and vice-versa.

I wonder if the IA story had been written for a female PC and was then later changed to a male PC sometime during development. The scenes with Hunter and Kaliyo are at times really strange and don't go with my femAgent at all, but I would imagine would please a ManAgent and have thus been altered.

I haven't played femAgent, but maleAgent seemed to work fairly well, as you noticed.

Of course, Act 3

I have Agent feels, ok?

I haven't played femAgent, but maleAgent seemed to work fairly well, as you noticed.

 

Of course, Act 3

 

 

No **** cop out with Hunter. It's extremely telling of Bioware: Austin's attitude to women that, when you find out Hunter was a woman all long *gasp* you can say "Well done" and kiss her. One - this says a woman needs validation from a man and Two - this literally states that women are there to be kissed by men. At no point when Hunter was in his male role, was there any indication of a sexual or physical relationship building between the two (although Hunter was pretty fascinated with you - She says as much at the end, that Cipher Nine and Hunter are two [men] very much alike.)

 

 

 

I have Agent feels, ok?

SWTOR is very cinematic in its story telling and falls back on common archetypes. The IA compared to the other classes I've played has the most male NPCs. And they are more of a threat. The one female NPC of notice seems to be a girl's girlfriend and then there is the father figure. The BH has a lot of flirty Female NPC in HIStory. The SI has Female NPCs mostly as mother figures and an effeminate male Nemesis. The Consular has Female NPCs as mother figures. The JK has male mentors that he easily surpasses. The Scoundrel has lots anf lots of flirty NPCs and weak male NPCs. It seems like the stories are written for men, and the IA was changed to cater to men.