While I am thrilled that people are getting the options to romance Nadia as a female character and Lightside (or Darkside) Jaesa as either gender. I am curious if the option to romance Doc for male characters will be added as well or if it is only the female companions getting added romance options?

I am only asking because the stream itself was unclear, with Jaesa and Nadia only being used as examples.

While I am thrilled that people are getting the options to romance Nadia as a female character and Lightside (or Darkside) Jaesa as either gender. I am curious if the option to romance Doc for male characters will be added as well or if it is only the female companions getting added romance options?

 

I am only asking because the stream itself was unclear, with Jaesa and Nadia only being used as examples.

I don't really see Doc becoming a SS romance. He's a womaniser after all.

But they haven't mentioned Doc being a romance option so I assume "no" for the time being.

He can still be a womanizer and also your bisexual boyfriend. It's not exclusive.

Making Doc bisexual would be like making Han Solo bisexual. They're both the stereotypical smooth-talking womanizers. That's the charm behind their characters and it makes sense for them to stay that way.

Dulfy posted this bullet point. "Same gender romance available for Jaesa and Nadia. LS Jaesa romance option will be added for the first time as well. "

I have one question. Is this just for toons that finished the KOFE storyline or does this apply to toons still in the vanilla story line? I have several toons that never went past Ziost available.

Dulfy posted this bullet point. "Same gender romance available for Jaesa and Nadia. LS Jaesa romance option will be added for the first time as well. "

 

I have one question. Is this just for toons that finished the KOFE storyline or does this apply to toons still in the vanilla story line? I have several toons that never went past Ziost available.

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Kira, Scourge and Zenith aren't back yet. My money would be on them being added as additional SGR options.

That is a possibility I hadn't considered... though I will admit I do prefer Doc slightly over the latter two male options.

Dulfy posted this bullet point. "Same gender romance available for Jaesa and Nadia. LS Jaesa romance option will be added for the first time as well. "

 

I have one question. Is this just for toons that finished the KOFE storyline or does this apply to toons still in the vanilla story line? I have several toons that never went past Ziost available.

Extremely unlikely that they will reconstruct the base class stories, especially not just for one companion of one class.

That's just silly.

Is it? I noticed you couldn't explain why my point was silly. Is a character sticking to his core personality "silly" to you? That's the thing that everybody remembers about Doc, he's the Jedi Knight's "ladies man" companion. He even flirts with Kira in less than 10 seconds of meeting her on Balmorra lol.

Anyway I'm in no mood for an argument. So let's just agree to disagree.

Making Doc bisexual would be like making Han Solo bisexual. They're both the stereotypical smooth-talking womanizers. That's the charm behind their characters and it makes sense for them to stay that way.

I agree, it's not any more acceptable to change an established heterosexual man into something he is not, than it is to force a gay character to be straight and take away their sexual identity. If they make Doc bi, then I'm going to seriously push for Cytharat to be bi as well. We do need more male romanceable force users.

With Nadia and Jaesa, their sexuality is portrayed more vaguely, so it would likely work for them to be turned bi assuming they weren't already.

There are men who have spent half their life telling everyone that they're straight. Who married, had kids, chased skirts in college (the way a stereotypical straight man would) only to finally come out of the closet to accept and embrace themselves as being bi/gay. There are women who did the expected; got married, popped out kids and played the housewife for twenty years before coming out and embracing a romance with a best friend they'd actually been in love with all along. It does happen and if that can happen in the real world, why can't it in SWTOR? Why would we tell [Companion] "Sorry, you can't be bisexual now because when I met you, you were straight"? Or "You've rivaled Casanova for the past five years, you're not bisexual". You wanna go try and use that argument against someone in your circle who has just found the courage to come out to you?

Now, personally, there are companions I can see it for and others I cannot and no matter what the writers do with them, for me they are straight. Which is fine because how I see my companion, what I do and do not do with my companion, is my business and it doesn't affect anyone's gameplay. My Theron is straight. That isn't me denying his sexuality or his role for a SGR but in my personal gameplay, I only ever date him on female characters. All his interactions in my gameplay, are straight romance orientated. I never see the bisexual side of him. I'm aware he is bisexual or gay for other players and that's just fine because what I do with him, and what they do with him, doesn't interfere with one another.

Anyway, it seems currently, with this 'trial' of converting original LIs to SGR, Bioware is taking it on a case by case basis otherwise they wouldn't have excluded Doc. They likely felt Nadia and Jaesa's romances are ambiguous enough that this can work whereas Doc's isn't. Or it could be they felt lesbian players really do deserve additional options besides just Lana so that player demographic was prioritized. It's a step in the right direction, I like it even though I will never romance either of them myself, and I do hope they'll continue to try and create a further balance so each player, regardless of gender/orientation, has an equal amount of romance opportunities.

Making Doc bisexual would be like making Han Solo bisexual. They're both the stereotypical smooth-talking womanizers. That's the charm behind their characters and it makes sense for them to stay that way.

Don’t think of it as making Han Solo bi, think of it more as revealing Doc to be more like Captain Jack Harkness

Don’t think of it as making Han Solo bi, think of it more as revealing Doc to be more like Captain Jack Harkness

That is brilliant, well done.

I agree, it's not any more acceptable to change an established heterosexual man into something he is not, than it is to force a gay character to be straight and take away their sexual identity. If they make Doc bi, then I'm going to seriously push for Cytharat to be bi as well. We do need more male romanceable force users.

 

With Nadia and Jaesa, their sexuality is portrayed more vaguely, so it would likely work for them to be turned bi assuming they weren't already.

I think Nadia and Jeasa bieing Bi can work as think Nadia turned out to have been sheltered and romance is new to her so in a way she could have experimented a bit.

Jeasa think her DS part is that she admitted to slept with both men and woman. Ls of her maybe she was Bi from the start as well or something.

I think Nadia and Jeasa bieing Bi can work as think Nadia turned out to have been sheltered and romance is new to her so in a way she could have experimented a bit.

 

 

Jeasa think her DS part is that she admitted to slept with both men and woman. Ls of her maybe she was Bi from the start as well or something.

I agree when it comes to those two. The way they were portrayed with their sexuality being a bit vague, it's different than a womanizer who chased any female that dared to stand still long enough.

I think there would be an outcry if a known gay character was suddenly made straight, I don't understand how trying to make a straight character bi or gay isn't a double standard. It really doesn't matter to me what people do with their toons, so long as I can do what I want with mine, but I'm trying to understand, why one change would be ok and the other not.

Don’t think of it as making Han Solo bi, think of it more as revealing Doc to be more like Captain Jack Harkness

LoL, Jack Harkness would shag a rock if it smiled at him sexily. That guy’s worse than Captain Kirk trying to shag every hot chick he meets (alien or not) because there are no “holes barred” with Jack Harkness. Docs more like Kirk than Jack.

As someone who is in a same sex marriage, I’m all for this change regarding same sex relationships with the original comps, it’s something that’s been missing, but I don’t think every comp should be like that. It’s not a free for all in real life and it shouldn’t be in the game.

Some comps aren’t designed to even be close to that. Doc, Xalek, Ashara and Tharan Cedrax are a few that shouldn’t be made same sex options. I can’t see Nadia being same sex either, but they might just be me.

Other original Female comps that would work are Kaliyo and Kira, maybe Mako and Risha.

Male comps that would work would be Aric, Corso, Felix, Gault, Talos and Quinn.

I might be wrong on some of male ones because I’m looking at it from a lesbian perspective. But Talos is a 100% perfect fit.

I’ve not got all of the extra expansion comps yet, but I think Shae and Acina would work for females. I’m not sure about any of the males.

I agree, it's not any more acceptable to change an established heterosexual man into something he is not, than it is to force a gay character to be straight and take away their sexual identity. If they make Doc bi, then I'm going to seriously push for Cytharat to be bi as well. We do need more male romanceable force users.

 

With Nadia and Jaesa, their sexuality is portrayed more vaguely, so it would likely work for them to be turned bi assuming they weren't already.

Agreed 100%. At the end of the day, Doc's character and backstory has been established as a heterosexual womaniser much like Han Solo. In fact, I'd wager Bioware based Doc off Solo considering how similar the Jedi Knight story was to Luke Skywalker's story.

As you said with Nadia and Jaesa, their sexuality is very vague thus being bi is open for them. Whereas Doc's sexuality is very clear and we can make all the assumptions we want like "Maybe he's just in the closet" or "He's pretending to be a womaniser to hide his bi feelings" but these points are just baseless speculations and opinions unless Bioware say anything further on him.

Sexuality is such an individual thing. For some people they know right away and they're out of the closet in high school; for others it takes much longer to figure things out. It's completely true that a lot of people don't know how they identify until they're in their 30s, 50s, or even older. There are seniors who come out of the closet.

And the label that one identifies with can change; maybe at one point someone truly identifies as bisexual but later finds out they're more comfortable with the gay, pan or lesbian label. Maybe someone insists they're straight but later they realize they're not. It happens.

But as far as the characters are concerned, if a character is strongly scripted as one orientation or another, they shouldn't be shoved into another orientation just to satisfy fans. In Doc's case, there's just nothing about him that pings my gaydar. Personal opinion, but since they wrote him so specifically as being infatuated with women and never having any ambiguity about that, it would be strange to change it.

On the other hand, Scourge seems as though he could bat for both teams, especially since if you listen closely he doesn't specify the gender when he's talking about lovers, and he's been cut off from feelings for so long. IMHO Vector and Andronikos potentially could be open to SGR too. Especially Vector, since the hivemind seems to suggest that everyone shares each other's experiences and thoughts regardless of gender.

Some of the female companions like Kira, Risha and Akaavi have lines toward female PCs that could be interpreted any number of ways, and I feel it would be plausible for any of them to be bisexual.

And that's the thing, in media when a character comes out, if it's done plausibly, there are often a lot of clues and subtext for a long time. As an example from other media, Wonder Woman is bisexual, and that's only recently been confirmed, but if you read back through the comics and media it's been alluded to, sometimes very obviously, for the past 40+ years.

And that's the thing, in media when a character comes out, if it's done plausibly, there are often a lot of clues and subtext for a long time. As an example from other media, Wonder Woman is bisexual, and that's only recently been confirmed, but if you read back through the comics and media it's been alluded to, sometimes very obviously, for the past 40+ years.

While you are correct. In Media when a character comes out usually there's been some subtext or some subtle clues dropped prior to the reveal. However, this doesn't necessarily ring true in real life. There are several women (and I assume men) who've gotten married and had kids only to be completely blindsided when their spouse came out as gay or a lesbian.

That doesn't necessarily mean that Doc is but this is also a character who hasn't had any major writing done for him since launch. So, I wouldn't mind an abrupt change given its been seven actual years since he's seen any kind of major content and what? thirteen years in the game's timeline?

Back on topic, I think the direction of this thread has gotten a little derailed. In my opening post, I wasn't intended to start a debate on whether or not they should change Doc's sexuality. I was merely asking for some clarification on whether or not Doc was included in the added options because I found the statement to carry implications that Charles may or may not have intended.