I’m usually a premade fan even though I don’t participate in them much anymore.

But with Yavin, I think they need to be removed or at least have two types of queue to help alleviate the imbalance with too many healers and tanks on one team and none on the other.

This is a cross faction match, premades aren’t needed to make it pop faster and it’s a smaller map so that you can’t even work around a team of healer/skank premades. The mechanics and the map size should always give the premade team the win, regardless of how good the team is. I think because of the size, combat and the map mechanics, which are unique, this should be treated a little like the ranked queue system of group or solo queue.

Why is this? Because 9/10 matches I play in or against teams with 2 healers and a skank tank premade, we have no healers on the other team. I know many people are seeing this. For some reason, if there is a healer premade on one side, the queue either puts no healer on the other team or puts any solo healers on the same team as the premade.

Of course they could just fix the queue system with better match making (better idea), but we know they either can’t or won’t.

So I would suggest that they remove premades from popping the Yavin map. This would have to be the easiest solution for them to implement until they can work out another system. In the mean time if people want to play Yavin, they just make sure they aren’t in a premade.

they cant even fix stupid bugs that have existed for the past 6 years but they'll totally write the code to block premades in their newest Xfaction WZ. What next, peace on earth?

Maybe, that would be nice

To be honest I think the best solution would be to separate all premades and non-premade queues for all warzones together. That would ensure the premades still pop because all you need is 4 premades on the whole server to make a warzone (2 for arenas) while leaving the non-premades alone.

They have the ability to create such a system, proof is the separation of solo ranked and team ranked, so go ahead and implement it in NWZ and GSF too, because usually a good premade makes the match look 1 sided because they coordinate objectives via TS or even chat far better than can be expected the average pug group. The sad truth is most pugs really don't know how to play objectives or their class, not to mention those who queue for the many and don't care about the game. It is very rare for a non-premade to beat a good premade.

Should the separation be implemented, premades will get their good games and pugs will have a slightly less chance of getting stomped or get stomped less dramatically.

And as for these premades who take pleasure in playing only with TS, only with perfect group formation and not-surprisingly stomping pugs, they will either get faced by premades who match their skills and have awesome matches, or scare off all the more casual premades, kill the premade queue, and be forced to play with actual solo skill for a change if they want PVP to keep popping. Kind of an awesome side effect

As for the incoming "get yourself a group instead of complaining", well, due to recent patches you can't queue for multiple activities such as PVP, GSF and any kind of PVE simultaneously while in a group, you must pick one. So for those players who have more things in this game than PVP, but still consider PVP more then a farming method and like to play good matches with a chance to win (and yes, we exist. Killed Revan HM, several NiM bosses, soloed KOFTE+KOTET MM, good in GSF, and good in PVP when not matched with bad groups versus premades, all in the same lifetime with less than 6h a day), the "get a group" is irrelevant. Also, "get a group" is not enough of an answer when faced with a TS premade, because pugged premade from fleet will be stomped by them all the same [and with my solution, if there is one TS premade with no opposition, then pug premades can stop queueing together to avoid them], and it is unfair and unrealistic to ask everyone who hates getting stomped to just stop playing in the hours in which his TS-available friends aren't available.

The option queue solo was not created for "hope there isn't a premade to have a chance at winning", and the option to queue premades was not created for "satiate your sadistic lust for a good stomp when playing like a NiM boss versus noobs because you aren't good enough to win otherwise". There should have been balance with the 2 together, and this balance usually doesn't happen, so instead, the option we are left with is total seperation.

I’m usually a premade fan even though I don’t participate in them much anymore.

 

But with Yavin, I think they need to be removed or at least have two types of queue to help alleviate the imbalance with too many healers and tanks on one team and none on the other.

 

This is a cross faction match, premades aren’t needed to make it pop faster and it’s a smaller map so that you can’t even work around a team of healer/skank premades. The mechanics and the map size should always give the premade team the win, regardless of how good the team is. I think because of the size, combat and the map mechanics, which are unique, this should be treated a little like the ranked queue system of group or solo queue.

 

Why is this? Because 9/10 matches I play in or against teams with 2 healers and a skank tank premade, we have no healers on the other team. I know many people are seeing this. For some reason, if there is a healer premade on one side, the queue either puts no healer on the other team or puts any solo healers on the same team as the premade.

Of course they could just fix the queue system with better match making (better idea), but we know they either can’t or won’t.

 

So I would suggest that they remove premades from popping the Yavin map. This would have to be the easiest solution for them to implement until they can work out another system. In the mean time if people want to play Yavin, they just make sure they aren’t in a premade.

Wow these " yavin must be", "yavin must have" threads are weird. Why you guys think that this wrz is something special and should have special features? I say it's the same wrz as other but with stupid cross-faction

I think those side steps on Yavin make it too easy to defend, if you are holding two nodes the defenders can just sit on the steps and see which node is being attacked. Barely need incoming calls.

This just accentuates any imbalance like this.

The 4 second cap mod "in theory" balances out the ease of movement for defenders.

In practice though it really depends on your team. If you've got a half decent team that will use stuns and knockbacks to protect the person with the mod you can come back and win. If however you've got knuckeheads that will start capping on top of you while you are using the 4 second mod instead of throwing out some stuns, or knocking the guy you just mezzed out of it...

Rip. GG.

I don't know what it is but with Yavin some teams really struggle to cap nodes. I was in one the other day where I went to "their" node at the start, delayed cap when it was just me vs three of theirs. One of my teammates eventually peeled that way as did more of theirs. By the time me and that other teammate died we had six of them at that node. As I'm in the respawn point I hear the node cap message and think that must be the one I just died at. Nope. That came a second later. The cap message was for mid being taken by the other team. 5 of my teammates were at mid for two minutes and couldn't cap on 2 people.

i dont see it as any more or less impactful on Yavin than others personally, and it doesnt matter either way is working as intended.

Sure it’s working as intended, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be better

I think those side steps on Yavin make it too easy to defend, if you are holding two nodes the defenders can just sit on the steps and see which node is being attacked. Barely need incoming calls.

 

This just accentuates any imbalance like this.

This is my thoughts as well and if it’s just a full pug team, then you can over come this. But when it’s a premade of 2 healers and skank tank, then it’s impossible.

We already know what it’s like in other WZs, it just turns into a big parsing exercise, which is boring. But at least in those other maps there are big enough distances that you can pressure their team to split or delay long enough to cap.

That is nigh impossible to do when you have such a short distance and the ability to return just as fast.

If they fixed the queue system and added some match making it wouldnt be an issue. But at the moment the premade teams seem to also get any solo healers put one their teams too. For me this makes it even more game breaking than just the premade healer problem.

If people weren’t running these stupid double header and skank premades it wouldn’t have the impact it does because both sides “should” get healers.

Honestly, this situation makes matches unwinnable for one side and boring for the other. It doesn’t matter to me which team I’m on, it’s just boring and ruins what should be a highly dynamic map.

Yea not a fan of this map. Have played a ton of lopsided matches on this map, something is wrong with it. I did manage to play a semi close game on it yesterday, but that was after 5 matches of either shutting out the other team or getting shut down ourselves. It's just not a fun map, maybe thats why it was never released in the first place with the SoR expansion, maybe they were trying to spare us this crap? I think foam is right, once you hold two nodes the way to defend them is really easy which makes come backs difficult. If you are fighting a premade there is no way to create distance against them, like in civil war most premades brawl in the middle leaving solo players/objective to pick of the ends if possible, because the map has built in distance making it harder for them to respond. Most don't and just number farm anyway.

But this map doesn't have that. So a premade can just bounce all over the place and farm everything, they can farm spawn and run up the steps to farm middle, back to spawn, etc. which happens alot. Number farmer dream I guess.

The only solution is to leave, and reque and hope you don't get back in.

Yea not a fan of this map. Have played a ton of lopsided matches on this map, something is wrong with it. I did manage to play a semi close game on it yesterday, but that was after 5 matches of either shutting out the other team or getting shut down ourselves. It's just not a fun map, maybe thats why it was never released in the first place with the SoR expansion, maybe they were trying to spare us this crap? I think foam is right, once you hold two nodes the way to defend them is really easy which makes come backs difficult. If you are fighting a premade there is no way to create distance against them, like in civil war most premades brawl in the middle leaving solo players/objective to pick of the ends if possible, because the map has built in distance making it harder for them to respond. Most don't and just number farm anyway.

 

But this map doesn't have that. So a premade can just bounce all over the place and farm everything, they can farm spawn and run up the steps to farm middle, back to spawn, etc. which happens alot. Number farmer dream I guess.

 

The only solution is to leave, and reque and hope you don't get back in.

It’s the premades that are the problem. I’ve had really exciting matches when there aren’t any in a match. It’s very dynamic and has a good balance of combat and objective play in the one map. I would like more maps like this, but only if premades are excluded from them.

Well, I'm just gonna suggest something far more simple, because the issue isn't exactly the premades from what I see, more the inequality between the two teams in terms of healer/tank.

It's not impossible to completely obliterate a premade team on the Yavin WZ, it just requires balanced matchmaking along with peoples who knows how to play :')

Give us proper matchmaking, ensure that a team with a healer will meet a team with a healer as well. The same goes for tank. You could even go as far as Overwatch for example, and make it so that when a team has a premade, then the other team will also have a premade with the same numbers of players.

A «premade only» warzone isn't fun, I don't see why I should participate in a «farming warzone» ruled by a TR premade just because I wanted to pvp for fun with my wife.

A large part of the problem with Yavin is player attitude.

I've been noticing a common occurrence in that map now when one team is down with only one node. A large portion of the losing team, even though they've still got time to come back, simply give up but do it in the worst possible way. Instead of quitting the match entirely and maybe allowing someone who will play the match to the end to replace them, they'll sit like turtles and pout on the one node they own.

It's hard to come back from a deficit when you're going after enemy nodes but the people still trying are consistently heavily outnumbered but a roaming gank squad because half or more of your team are now camping your sole node instead of pressuring the enemy's.

I don't know if it's that they're quitting or they're afraid of losing that one node, but it is responsible for a lot of ugly matches. A loss is a loss whether you own one node or none, so there is literally no point in stacking on the last node. I could understand maybe if you're so far down that you need 3 to win and the other team was blessed by the lack of matchmaking, making a 3 cap impossible, but people are starting to do this almost as soon as one team captures two nodes. It's ridiculous.

A large part of the problem with Yavin is player attitude.

 

I've been noticing a common occurrence in that map now when one team is down with only one node. A large portion of the losing team, even though they've still got time to come back, simply give up but do it in the worst possible way. Instead of quitting the match entirely and maybe allowing someone who will play the match to the end to replace them, they'll sit like turtles and pout on the one node they own.

 

It's hard to come back from a deficit when you're going after enemy nodes but the people still trying are consistently heavily outnumbered but a roaming gank squad because half or more of your team are now camping your sole node instead of pressuring the enemy's.

 

I don't know if it's that they're quitting or they're afraid of losing that one node, but it is responsible for a lot of ugly matches. A loss is a loss whether you own one node or none, so there is literally no point in stacking on the last node. I could understand maybe if you're so far down that you need 3 to win and the other team was blessed by the lack of matchmaking, making a 3 cap impossible, but people are starting to do this almost as soon as one team captures two nodes. It's ridiculous.

That’s when you all rush them and teach them that giving up and sitting at the node won’t protect them from dying

The premade thing, it's not just about this map. I'm not against premades in theory, people should be allowed to group up with a friend or two, I mean, it's an MMO and if you look at it from a bit further away,. raid teams are premades, right? It's hard to say 'there shouldn't be premades allowed for group content'.

At the same time, and again, it's not just about this one map in question, far from it, premades can be the cause of wins or losses on any map if the team they are going up against is a pug team that is lacking some of the fundementals that make victory more likely.

I don't care what map it is, if you are on a team with no healers, and the team you are up against has 2 healers and a skank tank, all things being equal [skill level, gear, etc] that team that doesn't have healers is 90% going to lose. Even if there is a difference of 1 healer [so say one team has two healers and a skank and the other team has 1 healer], chances are the team with only one healer is going to lose. A map like Yavin makes it that one healer isn't going to be enough to cover the needs of all the players defending at any node, so if another node is being attacked and one is being defended at the same time and you only have one healer, that other team can have a healer cover ing both actions at the same time, the team with only one than has to choose, which action is more important? Keep what we have, or try for a second node because we cannot win with only holding one node. The team that can make multiple moves at once is going to be at advantage. I played a match on that Yavin map just like that last night, the following is the results from that wz that may help to demonstrate what I'm saying.

https://ibb.co/cipYjw

[Was an insane amount of Maras and Sents in this match for some reason, I've never seen anything like that before, mercs and snipers, yeah all the time, but not this.]

The winning team which I was on had two healers and PT skank tank. The enemy team had 1 healer but no tank. Now, even still, even combining the two two healers on my team's results, the healer on the other team still did more total healing than the two healers on the winning team combined and as a Operative no less.

The extra healer and the skank option makes covering all the bases' far easier, places less of a load on any one healers shoulders and the presence of the skank allows for mobile response for either an attack or a defense [better for attack though].

We can see here that the teams really weren't at all that disimilar from one another in terms of class make ups, if anything they were unusually alike in that regard. What was unusual was the high presense of melee over ranged, and that the usual state of classes [lots of mercs and snipers] wass't present, but that only helps to serve as a good example of just how telling these two or three other classes/roles being present are on the match. This match was about 4 out of the 18 players mostly. The the three healers and the one skank.

Nothing makes or breaks a teams chances more than the presence or lack there of of healers/tank support. They are what matters, they are what is so telling and they are the reasons why premades can have such a profound effect on the results and outcome of matches and this is even more the case in arenas.

It isn't premades in and of themselves that are the problem, it is the combination of classes that are at issue. A premade of a mara, an assassin and a DPS sorc isn't going to be an issue and isn't going to cause a balance shift between the two teams, but a premade with two healers, a skank, and a merc, that very well can cause a dis-balance unless the other team was just as lucky to get such a combo by luck of the draw. - Once again, it's just about class balance, because if you replaced a ton of these sents and maras with mercs or snipers who weren't therefore totally reliant on the healers for their survival due to lost health this entire situation could have played out a lot different because mercs and snipers have their own heals and that is why they represent their own threat to class balance.

PVP is half about skill and half about who has more heals. That's why mercs and snipers are OP, because of their heals and because of the amount of heals [or rather lack there of] the other DPS specs have compared to theirs. All things being equal nothing trumps heals in PVP. Heals = 'extra lives'.

Or maybe you could make a friend or two

That’s an old excuse and a lame argument. All that does is unbalance the system more because not everyone will chose to do that even if you do.

It’s not about wether you are on the winning team or losing team that has a premade, it’s about having fun in the match. If matches are one sided on Yavin because the matchmaking queue system can’t tell the difference between a premade team of two healers with a skank and then adds a third solo healer to that team while the other has none, then it’s completely one sided. and the other team has no hope of winning even if they have some great players.

Basically it’s boring being on either team because you are either stomping the team without the premade into the ground or if you are on the other team, the match becomes one big parsing situation because nothing dies.

The best solution is to actually add matchmaking to the queue system and not only rely on filling numbers from the queue. We now have cross faction and that should be enough people in the queue to allow for better match making. But if they won’t or can’t do that for Yavin, then the other solution, how ever unattractive, is to remove premades from it.

That’s an old excuse and a lame argument. All that does is unbalance the system more because not everyone will chose to do that even if you do.

 

It’s not about wether you are on the winning team or losing team that has a premade, it’s about having fun in the match. If matches are one sided on Yavin because the matchmaking queue system can’t tell the difference between a premade team of two healers with a skank and then adds a third solo healer to that team while the other has none, then it’s completely one sided. and the other team has no hope of winning even if they have some great players.

Basically it’s boring being on either team because you are either stomping the team without the premade into the ground or if you are on the other team, the match becomes one big parsing situation because nothing dies.

 

The best solution is to actually add matchmaking to the queue system and not only rely on filling numbers from the queue. We now have cross faction and that should be enough people in the queue to allow for better match making. But if they won’t or can’t do that for Yavin, then the other solution, how ever unattractive, is to remove premades from it.

I agree Trixxie. Ultimately, we play this game for one reason, to have fun, that's the point of games. Some people take it too seriously and that sometimes is what can cause people not to have fun. They pick the perfect class combos, they premade, they get voice chat all in the hopes of not having fun, but rather of stomping pug teams. Even worse is when these same people than want to start talking all kinds of shzt like the fact that they are premading the perfect class/role combos and using VC has nothing to do with their performance and they start calling the pugs their team is stomping 'shiztters'. - That's not about having fun, that's about having an edge, and being an A-O.

I am of a mixed mind on the subject because I don't feel it would be right to tell people they can't play with their friends, that doesn't really seem fair either. But, if you made role allotments somehow, to insure that there wouldn't be too much of something on one team and not enough of it on the other, that doesn't seem to be overly limiting, people could still play with their friends in the context of the roles available. - Would it place a limit on what people could play with their friends, yeah, I guess it would but given how many alts most people play, I'm sure they could work it out so they could play with their friends and just have to perhaps be a bit more discerning of which alts some may play sometimes. It's not a perfect system to be sure, and people would than say "Well that's my main and that's what I want to play and this is unfair because it places limitations". That is true, but, it's no different in raiding. Not everyone in a raid group can play a healer or a tank, you have to have some people playing DPS and some people might have multiple characters and on that raid group they might have to fill a role that's needed still. So it's totally doable if you look at it like that. Yeah, PVP is different, I get it, but, raiders manage somehow with everyone not playing too many of one role. If the group already has two healers on that raid team, that you can't play a healer.

Problem is there are some valid arguments to be made on both sides. But at the same time, how many people want to keep playing one sided matches over and over again? Fair or not, it's not good for the longevity of the game and it does turn people off to PVPing. I think there should be some consideration given to implementing role limits on teams so that these kinds of one sided matches could be avoided. I don't really know how it could be done to make everyone happy all the time, but I'm sure with some of the talented minds we see on the forums there are probably some people who could come up with some worthy ideas that at very least be considered. Maybe even a separate quece option, if your willing to maybe have to wait a little longer for groups to fill wherein it won't pop until there is a more even spread of the roles possibly. No one would be forced, they could do it the normal way of they choose, and with the population count as they are now there really isn't a shortage of players so it might be more viable of an idea now since the mergers. With that idea of yours in mind, it may speak to the added value of having cross faction for that very purpose. I'm not real big on cross faction personally, but, if it makes more people happy for the options it might allow than hell, I'm all for more people being happy.

They just need a care bear mode for everyone who can’t make friend and are really crappy so they can all queue together and do all their routine of

1. Never interrupting

2, not separating tanks from healers

3, not paying attention to buffs

4. White barring ball carriers

5. Not watching doors

6. Do 1.5-2K dips then complain they can’t kill the guarded healer....well no £@#$

Come to think about it they should match make so their is some kind of T-ball level so we don’t have to deal with them at all. Let premades and good pvpers have their own 8 mans and arenas and let the whiners run around their war zones without a clue. They could give them peanut butter sandwiches for the rewards

They just need a care bear mode for everyone who can’t make friend and are really crappy so they can all queue together and do all their routine of

1. Never interrupting

2, not separating tanks from healers

3, not paying attention to buffs

4. White barring ball carriers

5. Not watching doors

6. Do 1.5-2K dips then complain they can’t kill the guarded healer....well no £@#$

Come to think about it they should match make so their is some kind of T-ball level so we don’t have to deal with them at all. Let premades and good pvpers have their own 8 mans and arenas and let the whiners run around their war zones without a clue. They could give them peanut butter sandwiches for the rewards

Yep, try separating skanks from their two healers in Yavin:rolleyes:

Have you even played the new map?

OK the whole "make a few friends" thing that always comes up in these threads, is a really weak argument and rationalization aside has nothing to do with why people run solo.

PVP for some is about the challenge, the competition, testing yourself to improve. We all know that running in a premade literally negates virtually ALL of that and turns it into easy mode. Its literally PvP with training wheels, you cant fall/fail unless you run into a better premade 99% of the time.

Unfortunately, for those who prefer the challenge, it would seem that time has passed. Premades are the way of things now in SWTOR, complaining changes nothing.

My advise to you is to do exactly as they say, group up. Take them head on with groups of your own, it would seem thats literally all thats left. If you roll solo you roll the dice, and you will crap out more than you win, its house odds.

Stop bothering to try to change it you before you join me in the pariahs club.

All these people who tell PVPer to make friends and PVP with them need to realize 2 things:

1. The possibility to queue alone does not exist and was never intended to exist to feed premades (or to be carried by premades if lucky). They wouldn't make the button available to anyone ungrouped if that was the case, and only premades would exist. If solo exists, it is supposed to be a valid way to queue and possibly win. Not to lose to those who realized they suck at this game and dare not queue without an army...

2. Some players have more things to do in life than playing this game (and that alone is enough reason to be unable to login in sync with your friends) and/or have more things to do while playing this game. That means that people might be doing different activities while being queued to a warzone, and might even place themselves in queue to other activities such as GSF and all grouped PVE content. Multiple queues are impossible in group, and since they are in for queueing for all dailies at once, and not to run 20 matches in a row (YES! some people who do "only" 1,2,3 warzones in a row exist!!), then getting a group is too much of a bother for these few matches and disables their ability to multi-queue, which is quite surely slowing their progression toward their daily goals.

And before anyone adds additional stupid speculations: Not all people who do PVP just for daily are these annoying punching bags who couldn't care less about the match they enter and AFK/parse in it rather than play. Some want and try to win as much as those focused solely on PVP who play for 3h in a row, doing nothing else but WZs. And the guy who says they deserve less chance to win, just spits on the whole idea of solo queue (beside the possible personal skill gap due to lack of experience compared to full time PVPers, but don't forget that a full-time PVPer might be relatively new to the game, with a /played of 5hrs, while the daily queuer can have a total of 300hrs played, so the fact that one currently PVPs more doesn't make his skills necessarily better).

If it sounded a bit offensive, it might be because the "get friends" is offensive. It claims every complaint about the unfairness of premades is due to the lack of skill of the solo queuer rather than a real problem, while in truth, if anything, the lack of skill can be seen by the sole fact that many of these "aces" who go premade regularly dare not set foot in PVP without their premade, and when they rarely do that, they might be parsing legends, but objectively they suck so much, that when losing, they either curse the whole group for being useless noobs and quit or curse the whole group for being useless noobs and go AFK. Not gonna name people, but I do have a couple in mind, for either NWZ or GSF (in ranked its a different story because BW were smart enough to separate premade and solo there). No lack of skill (social or in-game) is indicated by going without premade. If anything, it is indicated by depending on it. Sometimes it is the exact same premade, so even the simple act of guaranteed FOTM backup is not enough, you need to practice with friends (sometimes + TS or discord)? Is beating the enemy pug group a nightmare boss to you? Where is the damn challenge? Where is the fun?

My definition of a "fun" match: 2 groups of approximately equal skills and coordination fight other objectives. The number of FOTM per group is not as important as how they switch tactics, such as sap caps, quick ambushes, etc. These matches can even happen when 1 side has 4 mercs and the other has none. This kind of matches can be compared to a good chess game between 2 masters.

Premakers sometimes apparent definition of "fun": Total stomping of a non-competing group due to superior coordination, choice of perfect T/D/H balance and sometimes FOTM classes. his kind of matches can be compared to a chess game of a master vs a beginner (prodigies aside).

Now as the guy who can pick my opponent, how do I look (if I want to be considered a master), if I pick the beginner instead of the master? In other words: If you consider yourself good, and you assume the enemy will not be premade either, how do you think you look when you choose the easy-secure win rather than the challenge?

[i bet the implementation of lvl sync was a sad day because ganking on Voss became harder, killing solo content on low planets was no longer one-shot (well, except for starting planets), and NiM ops and hard fps of low lvls could no longer be facerolled...]

OK the whole "make a few friends" thing that always comes up in these threads, is a really weak argument and rationalization aside has nothing to do with why people run solo.

 

PVP for some is about the challenge, the competition, testing yourself to improve. We all know that running in a premade literally negates virtually ALL of that and turns it into easy mode. Its literally PvP with training wheels, you cant fall/fail unless you run into a better premade 99% of the time.

 

Unfortunately, for those who prefer the challenge, it would seem that time has passed. Premades are the way of things now in SWTOR, complaining changes nothing.

 

My advise to you is to do exactly as they say, group up. Take them head on with groups of your own, it would seem thats literally all thats left. If you roll solo you roll the dice, and you will crap out more than you win, its house odds.

Stop bothering to try to change it you before you join me in the pariahs club.

I’ll join your pariahs club Flop

It wouldn’t be the first time my mouth’s got me into trouble and it won’t be the last

My motto is if you stay silent and not speak up, you deserve to get crap.

IMO, complacency and apathy is what’s wrong with this world these days.

If you don’t stand up for what you believe, you may as well be sheep or worse, a mushroom.

This was written as I was writing my post, so I didn't see it until I posted. Reactions:

Unfortunately, for those who prefer the challenge, it would seem that time has passed. Premades are the way of things now in SWTOR, complaining changes nothing.

 

My advise to you is to do exactly as they say, group up. Take them head on with groups of your own, it would seem thats literally all thats left. If you roll solo you roll the dice, and you will crap out more than you win, its house odds.

Stop bothering to try to change it you before you join me in the pariahs club.

The problem I see with your solution is that usually, I see only 1 premade per match (that's totally enough to decide the victor). Making a counter-premade is more likely that instead of match A having 1 premade and match B not having it, match A will have 1 and match B will have 1. It is just as likely as match A getting both premades countering each other, and in non-cross faction especially, as likely as match A getting both premades on 1 side stomping the other team even worse. So adding to the inflation of premades may solve the problem for those in the new premades, but as I said in my post, some people simply don't PVP enough in a row to be worth the bother of finding a group, or they queue other things and can't queue with a group, and we are just reducing the chance of these people to actually win a match.

EDIT: as was written again while I was writing:

My motto is if you stay silent and not speak up, you deserve to get crap.

IMO, complacency and apathy is what’s wrong with this world these days.

If you don’t stand up for what you believe, you may as well be sheep or worse, a mushroom.

You said "complaining changes nothing", but burst the forum enough, get the following suggestions into livestreams, put pressure. Paying customers sometimes get what they want when they are loud (see BF2 lootboxes ).

Coming from a guy who lives in a state which was founded only after a lot of agony, sweat, and loud voices in the U.N. but eventually WAS founded ENDOFEDIT

So whenever BioWare does listen:

The solution is drastic but simple: Copy the separation of premades and non-premades from RWZ to NWZ! Premades will only get their pops if they have an opposing premade. Up to bioware to decide if they wish to let premades of 2 or 3 keep going or force it to be 4 (or 8, though since NWZ have also arenas it makes more sense to make it 4), just as they force it to be 4 or solo in RWZ, but the point is premades will never face pugs. So if there are enough premades to ruin half the warzones of a day now, there should be enough to fill the queue of premades, leaving the solo queuers a fight versus other solo queuers.

And what if a premade wants to play but other premades are not online or they stomped the other premades too hard because you played too good (with FOTM or TS/discord, because unlike in GR no one will make a group for farms, so it is unlikely you will be TOO much better than all other premades) that they stopped queueing? Simple: Disband the premade and queue solo each, this way you might as well be with your friends as much as you are against them (only thing more fun than fighting beside friends is fighting them, UNLESS you are afraid... ) or be in seperate matches.

The wish of 4 people to stomp others should not be prioritized more than the wish of the opposing 8 to have a fair match, quite the opposite in fact, so this compromise of "no premade pops unless there are enemy premades" is far fairer than the current situation.