As many know, on the Firebrand and Stormcaller fight, firebrand will cast a spell called "incinerate armor" which will greatly increase the amount of damage the tank on Firebrand takes. This armor debuff can be healed through rather easily on SM but it cannot be healed through on HM. Most guilds employ a tank strategy to get passed this mechanic. However, it is actually unnecessary. There are two other ways to avoid the armor debuff without tank swapping:

1. Have a melee dps with a taunt take the incinerate armor debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the dps receives the debuff.

2. Have the tank on Stormcaller taunt and take he debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the stormcaller tank gets the debuff.

I find either of these two strategies more efficient than tank-swapping.

1. Have a melee dps with a taunt take the incinerate armor debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the dps receives the debuff.

2. Have the tank on Stormcaller taunt and take he debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the stormcaller tank gets the debuff.

 

I find either of these two strategies more efficient than tank-swapping.

This seems less efficient to me, for several reasons.

Both of these methods require more coordination than tank swapping because you have to taunt before incinerate armor begins casting. If you accidentally wait too long, you're screwed, and you'll have to swap anyway.

Both guardians and vanguards get bonuses for using their leaps. Guardians get focus, and vanguards get two free explosive surges, both of which improve their DPS.

Tank swapping improves threat generation on both tanks, since taunts give you 130% of the current highest threat.

I disagree.

1. It takes minimal coordination to tell the dps to taunt a few seconds after DD.

2. By the time incinerate armor casts the first time, threat is not going to be an issue for the tanks.

As many know, on the Firebrand and Stormcaller fight, firebrand will cast a spell called "incinerate armor" which will greatly increase the amount of damage the tank on Firebrand takes. This armor debuff can be healed through rather easily on SM but it cannot be healed through on HM. Most guilds employ a tank strategy to get passed this mechanic. However, it is actually unnecessary. There are two other ways to avoid the armor debuff without tank swapping:

 

1. Have a melee dps with a taunt take the incinerate armor debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the dps receives the debuff.

2. Have the tank on Stormcaller taunt and take he debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the stormcaller tank gets the debuff.

 

I find either of these two strategies more efficient than tank-swapping.

We've been using the first method for many weeks now and it's worked perfectly for us. We usually have one if not two PT dps in our raids with one being assigned the job to taunt as soon as the Incinerate Armor starts casting. He does just about the same thing, positioning wise, that the Double Destruction soakers do, which is jump in front of the tank. As soon as the the Incinerate Armor debuff is cast on our PT dps taunter, the FB tank taunts back and the taunter goes back to his position with the rest of the dps on FB's side.

Really the only thing to worry about is if the tank taunts back fast enough from the dps taunter. Because while casting Incinerate Armor, the taunter takes at least one hit, which is fine, but taking a second after the debuff goes off is a one shot. So as long as you have speedy taunters, that are quick on their feet, it's a very easy and simply solution to get around tank swapping.

There are no such thing as "spells" in swtor...

Other then that, I think the tank swap is only useful when storm caller has DD, on tank, if DPS didn't jump I the way fast enough.

1. It takes minimal coordination to tell the dps to taunt a few seconds after DD.

Minimal is still greater than zero, but I suppose the difference is negligible.

I still prefer switching for the increased damage, since there are no benefits to avoiding the switch.

Minimal is still greater than zero, but I suppose the difference is negligible.

 

I still prefer switching for the increased damage, since there are no benefits to avoiding the switch.

I think the reason people avoid the switch is due to the fact that if there is a mess up whether it be due to quickness of tanks, tab targeting, or whatever it may be, there is a greater risk of wiping the raid, mainly from cleaves. But I can also see how that wouldn't be something to worry about if your groups stand on the outsides of the tanks.

Our groups stand on the inside for ease of cross healing for the DD soakers and the few people on the ground. It might be better for your group to tank swap. For others, dps taunt. As long as it's killed at the end of the night, right?

There are no such thing as "spells" in swtor...

 

Other then that, I think the tank swap is only useful when storm caller has DD, on tank, if DPS didn't jump I the way fast enough.

just my opinion here but your Lazy:D tank should move DD on to the dps that way there is no excuses and your dps just dps's

just my opinion here but your Lazy:D tank should move DD on to the dps that way there is no excuses and your dps just dps's

I don't agree with this, your dps should move in front of the tank, that way it ensures that the correct dps get the DD, rather than the tank move it in front of the group and risk a healer getting it or something. That also removes the concerns of your tank not turning SC back into place fast enough and risk cleaving the raid.

As many know, on the Firebrand and Stormcaller fight, firebrand will cast a spell called "incinerate armor" which will greatly increase the amount of damage the tank on Firebrand takes. This armor debuff can be healed through rather easily on SM but it cannot be healed through on HM. Most guilds employ a tank strategy to get passed this mechanic. However, it is actually unnecessary. There are two other ways to avoid the armor debuff without tank swapping:

 

1. Have a melee dps with a taunt take the incinerate armor debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the dps receives the debuff.

2. Have the tank on Stormcaller taunt and take he debuff and have the firebrand tank taunt when the stormcaller tank gets the debuff.

 

I find either of these two strategies more efficient than tank-swapping.

We've always done it wih a dps / off tank taking the IA. All you have to do is focus target the other tank and wait for him to finish casting DD.

Minimal is still greater than zero, but I suppose the difference is negligible.

 

I still prefer switching for the increased damage, since there are no benefits to avoiding the switch.

Greater risk of cleaving the raid with a bad switch. Worst case onthe dps taunt is you have to heal through an IA.

We've always done it wih a dps / off tank taking the IA. All you have to do is focus target the other tank and wait for him to finish casting DD.

You can make it even easier. Once DD gets called out Firebrand will turn and face his guns up, the DPS or Off-tank just taunts then because he casts IA immediately after that.

For the person who thinks this requires more coordination than tank swapping... wow, I'm glad I don't have to raid with you. Also, if your tanks are having trouble holding threat that far into the fight, your tanks are awful.

We just have a shadow tank Firebrand >.>

Shadow vanishes for the first, third and fifth Incinerates and taunts back after the cast onto a DPS, uses resilience and deflection on the second and fourth Incinerates. (actually I think our other shadow tank just uses resilience for all of them).

No off taunting required, no tank swapping required. Yes I'm talking about Hard Mode.

I don't agree with this, your dps should move in front of the tank, that way it ensures that the correct dps get the DD, rather than the tank move it in front of the group and risk a healer getting it or something. That also removes the concerns of your tank not turning SC back into place fast enough and risk cleaving the raid.

We have done it both ways and I myself prefer to move as a tank. Sometimes the dps are so focused on their rotations that they simply make me take half of it which is hazardous to my health. So I let them dps do their thing and I move behind them. It was worked fine we never wiped because of this.

We have done it both ways and I myself prefer to move as a tank. Sometimes the dps are so focused on their rotations that they simply make me take half of it which is hazardous to my health. So I let them dps do their thing and I move behind them. It was worked fine we never wiped because of this.

Meh, you have no principles man. Give the DPS some responsibilities! It is an uplifting, educating experience for all.

Greater risk of cleaving the raid with a bad switch. Worst case onthe dps taunt is you have to heal through an IA.

There is no risk of a cleave. No one should be standing in between the tanks. Even if you didn't switch, they should be standing on the outside anyway because it is closer to where the shield generators spawn.

For the person who thinks this requires more coordination than tank swapping... wow, I'm glad I don't have to raid with you. Also, if your tanks are having trouble holding threat that far into the fight, your tanks are awful.

Could you actually provide reasons why your method is superior, rather than insulting me like a child? I never said that threat was an issue, I just said that threat generation was better. Also, what is so complicated about tab+taunt+leap? It requires no communication, and requires a fraction of a second to execute.

Could you actually provide reasons why your method is superior, rather than insulting me like a child?

Yes, I could. See below for some...

I never said that threat was an issue, I just said that threat generation was better.

You justify your strategy choice because it has higher threat generation and then admit threat is not an issue. Ummm... okay.

Also, what is so complicated about tab+taunt+leap? It requires no communication, and requires a fraction of a second to execute.

Nothing is complicated about that but some of us (yourself not included obviously) know that 1/3 of the tanking classes in the game do not have a leap. Also, you seem to fail at simple addition. The global cooldown is 1.5 seconds and you described two abilities on the global cooldown. Last I checked 3 seconds is greater than "a fraction of a second".

By the way, you could have just said: "We only use PT/Jugg tanks and have never done 16-EC HM so tank swapping works better for us in 8-Ops when we can't rely on always having a DPS with a taunt." Tank swapping is a perfectly viable strategy in that situation. You would have seemed quite sensible and not unintelligent had you simply said that. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

We just have a shadow tank Firebrand >.>

 

Shadow vanishes for the first, third and fifth Incinerates and taunts back after the cast onto a DPS, uses resilience and deflection on the second and fourth Incinerates. (actually I think our other shadow tank just uses resilience for all of them).

 

No off taunting required, no tank swapping required. Yes I'm talking about Hard Mode.

That's dangerous if not timed properly. Much better to control who he is going to turn to.

There is no risk of a cleave. No one should be standing in between the tanks. Even if you didn't switch, they should be standing on the outside anyway because it is closer to where the shield generators spawn.

 

Could you actually provide reasons why your method is superior, rather than insulting me like a child? I never said that threat was an issue, I just said that threat generation was better. Also, what is so complicated about tab+taunt+leap? It requires no communication, and requires a fraction of a second to execute.

We have tanks on the outside.