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Kaggath Tournament - Revan vs Xizor


Beniboybling

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“No game of dejarik can be won without pawns...”

Bonus Round:

Darth Revan vs Prince Xizor

Welcome to the bonus round of the Kaggath Tournament Semi-Finals. A competition pitting the power bases of the iconic Star Wars characters seen in the ‘Kaggath vs Series’ against each other in an epic tournament-style extravaganza.

 

The last battle, Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun, was as fierce and as unpredictable as its predecessor. But the odds swung in Traya’s favour, Kun was trapped in a ploy of her devising, and although Xizor managed to evade Kun’s apprentice, he too fell to Traya’s shadow tactics. But onto the bonus round, which will decide who claims 3rd Place in the tournament.

 

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

 

Before we begin, let’s set out the ground rules for the Semi-Finals.

 

 

  • The arena: the known galaxy.
  • No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or any other prominent powers i.e. Darth Malak, HK-47, Guri.
  • No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  • No surrender, fight to the death!
  • No alliances, combatants cannot ally themselves for any period of time with other powers (excluding non-mutual tactical ceasefires)
  • Combatants can wait their opponents out, but not if only one remains.
  • No superweapons, e.g. the Star Forge.
  • Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  • Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.

 

So, the combatants: Darth Revan was a powerful Sith Lord. He was exceptionally strong in the Force and a highly skilled swordsman, as well as a brilliant strategist and tactician. And Prince Xizor was a charismatic, cold and patient criminal mastermind; he was an expert in martial arts and an excellent marksman.

 

Revan commanded a powerful empire of Star Forged battlecruisers and an army of fanatically loyal troopers, dark Jedi and Sith assassins. While Xizor has the assets, reach, influence and wealth of the Black Sun – the most infamous crime syndicate in the galaxy – at his disposal. As well as a vast amount of intelligence, surpassing that of the Galactic Empire. But who is more powerful? And empire of shadows or an empire of warriors? Who will win?

 

Let the Kaggath begin!

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The last battle, Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun, was as fierce and as unpredictable as its predecessor. But the odds swung in Traya’s favour, Kun was trapped in a ploy of her devising, and although Xizor managed to evade Kun’s apprentice, he too fell to Traya’s shadow tactics.

 

Um... okay then.

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Um... okay then.

 

Ya..am not too sure of that either...but anyway..

 

Revan's forces were just some defected Republic forces along with Mandos right? Not too well versed with Revan's army. Though wait, if Revan can't have the Starforge then how does he have Starforge made battlecruisers? :p

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Ya..am not too sure of that either...but anyway..

 

Revan's forces were just some defected Republic forces along with Mandos right? Not too well versed with Revan's army. Though wait, if Revan can't have the Starforge then how does he have Starforge made battlecruisers? :p

 

Revan doesn't have the Star Forge, but he does have everything the Star Forge made. And something that I should have brought up in the Grievous vs. Revan battle was that a good portion of the capital ships produced by the Star Forge were Derriphan-class battleships that were used by Naga Sadow. These ships are not very good compared to what Xizor can bring. They are essentially useless here.

Edited by Aurbere
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Ya..am not too sure of that either...but anyway..

 

Revan's forces were just some defected Republic forces along with Mandos right? Not too well versed with Revan's army. Though wait, if Revan can't have the Starforge then how does he have Starforge made battlecruisers? :p

 

Revans forces were actually a TON of defected Republic forces (he was very persuasive) and many Dark Jedi/Sith. I don't actually know if he had ANY Mando's in his Force

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Revan doesn't have the Star Forge, but he does have everything the Star Forge made. And something that I should have brought up in the Grievous vs. Revan battle was that a good portion of the capital ships produced by the Star Forge were Derriphan-class battleships that were used by Naga Sadow. These ships are not very good compared to what Xizor can bring. They are essentially useless here.

 

Wow that is a terrible ship...no shielding? A class 4.0 hyperdrive with a backup 12.0? The only thing good about it, is the concussion missiles but even then, Xizor's ships can be outfitted with point defense laser cannons(in fact some of them already come with those). If thats what a good portion of Revan's fleet is then...wow.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Wow that is a terrible ship...no shielding? A class 4.0 hyperdrive with a backup 12.0? The only thing good about it, is the concussion missiles but even then, Xizor's ships can be outfitted with point defense laser cannons(in fact some of them already come with those). If thats what a good portion of Revan's fleet is then...wow.

 

Well he does have the stolen vessels. Such as the Centurion and Interdictors, but that really doesn't matter when you have a good chunk of your navy being categorized as cannon fodder. Which is essentially what the Derriphan has become.

 

During Naga Sadow's time, the Derriphan was akin to the Star Destroyer. But now that technology has advanced so far, it can barely fulfill the role of light frigate. It's really not that good anymore.

Edited by Aurbere
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Well he does have the stolen vessels. Such as the Centurion and Interdictors, but that really doesn't matter when you have a good chunk of your navy being categorized as cannon fodder. Which is essentially what the Derriphan has become.

 

During Naga Sadow's time, the Derriphan was akin to the Star Destroyer. But now that technology has advanced so far, it can barely fulfill the role of light frigate. It's really not that good anymore.

 

Of course back then it would be, but way back when the ships weren't decked out with tons of firepower and having all the bells and whistles. I mean the Derriphan has autoblasters...no, not turbolasers...AUTOBLASTERS which are ancient in design, and not too accurate either.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Traya, turning her attention to Xizor, supplies his forces with false information, eventually leading them to believe that both Kun and Traya have perished in mutual destruction. Finding Yavin IV and Malachor V abandoned, Xizor eventually accepts this is the case and returns to Coruscant to celebrate. Traya however has dispatched Darth Sion and a group of Sith assassins in a shuttle to Coruscant. The ship goes undetected in the mass thoroughfare of the planet and lands in the Palace District, close to Xizor’s Palace. Sion has his assassins infiltrate the palace and disable any starships inside, cutting off any chance of escape. They then disable the Palace’s defences and Sion storms the Palace. Xizor attempts to make a hasty escape, sending Guri to confront Sion and buy him time. But Sion makes short work of Guri and pursues his quarry, quickly catching up with Xizor in his private hangar. In desperation Xizor fires a few harmless bolts and Sion bats them aside with his lightsaber and then proceeds to decapitate the Prince. Sion returns to Traya and informs her of his success.

 

I'm sorry, when was this debated?

 

It's completely unfair to bring up a new argument and not allow anyone to counter it because you think it would happen. Your scenario makes sense up until this point. This part of the scenario had never been debated or even addressed, so it's wrong to assume it would happen this way. If you plan on having one get eliminated, at some point you should have told us that so we could focus on a scenario between the two survivors.

 

I'm tempted to call out personal bias here, seeing as you basically have Xizor and Kun getting destroyed through your entire scenario, then pull a "AH HA! Here's how Traya WILL kill Xizor, no doubt!" argument.

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I'm sorry, when was this debated?

 

It's completely unfair to bring up a new argument and not allow anyone to counter it because you think it would happen. Your scenario makes sense up until this point. This part of the scenario had never been debated or even addressed, so it's wrong to assume it would happen this way. If you plan on having one get eliminated, at some point you should have told us that so we could focus on a scenario between the two survivors.

 

I'm tempted to call out personal bias here, seeing as you basically have Xizor and Kun getting destroyed through your entire scenario, then pull a "AH HA! Here's how Traya WILL kill Xizor, no doubt!" argument.

 

Well it cant really be biased since he just comes up with a scenario based on the people that participate in his debate's points and the number of people that support one side. If the people had brought up more points in Exar Kun's favor or more people favored Exar Kun then Beni would just write a scenario where Kun won, so there really is no bias on his part.

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Of course back then it would be, but way back when the ships weren't decked out with tons of firepower and having all the bells and whistles. I mean the Derriphan has autoblasters...no, not turbolasers...AUTOBLASTERS which are ancient in design, and not too accurate either.

 

Yeah. The Derriphan is not that great. It's not even good. It's just plain bad. Thinking back on it, I should have brought this up in the Revan vs. Grievous vs. G0-T0 thread, but I forgot about it :o. Because, really, the Derriphan is not good. Oh well, just bring it up here, I guess.

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Yeah. The Derriphan is not that great. It's not even good. It's just plain bad. Thinking back on it, I should have brought this up in the Revan vs. Grievous vs. G0-T0 thread, but I forgot about it :o. Because, really, the Derriphan is not good. Oh well, just bring it up here, I guess.

 

Difference is that G0-T0 took out the survivor of the Revan vs. Grievous almost immediately after one of them killed the other. Ben's Traya scenario involves a much larger window of time for Xizor to react, but G0-T0 went for eliminating two enemies essentially at the same time.

 

In this Revan vs. Xizor, things become interesting... Revan has the raw military might, and Xizor has a base of operations that grounded on a planet... Both sides have assassins, though Xizor would have the bounty hunters for the most part.

 

The Starfighters at Xizor's disposal had shields, Sith Fighters generally had no shields, so from a starfighter standpoint Xizor has the edge.

 

The capital ships Xizor could in theory have or obtain would probably have above standard military tech as well, as long as Xizor can evade Revan's assassins, and keep from confronting Revan in a one on one fight, this may favor Xizor.

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This. I mean, I'm happy for Traya, but I don't know. Beni, would you mind showing the tally points on this one? It just strike me as odd( I supported Traya though).

Really? Curious, what outcome did you expect? (A question to everyone.) I didn't do a tally for this one, and only managed to do half a tally for the last one. Simply because the tri-battle format meant that combatants didn't fight each other on the same terms head to head. It was all about scenarios, which can't really be counted. If I had done a tally it likely would have given an 'incorrect' outcome.

I'm sorry, when was this debated?

 

It's completely unfair to bring up a new argument and not allow anyone to counter it because you think it would happen. Your scenario makes sense up until this point. This part of the scenario had never been debated or even addressed, so it's wrong to assume it would happen this way. If you plan on having one get eliminated, at some point you should have told us that so we could focus on a scenario between the two survivors.

 

I'm tempted to call out personal bias here, seeing as you basically have Xizor and Kun getting destroyed through your entire scenario, then pull a "AH HA! Here's how Traya WILL kill Xizor, no doubt!" argument.

It wasn't, which is the point. Nobody came up with any arguments for Xizor defeating Traya, despite me raising the point on several occassions. Admittedly I didn't mention this point during the debate (although I did ask what would happen if if Traya beat Kun and Traya supplied Xizor with false information about her death), but I only really had to 'invent it' at the end because nobody put forward arguments for Traya's defeat. And I don't decide who gets eliminated until the very end, when I call the winner. And like Darkondo said, the scenarios are just based on the arguments everyone made. Its basically an expression of what would be a tally, if I had managed to make a tally instead, the result would be the same. This is just a 'fun' scenario to put it into perspective.

 

P.S. Just a query here Aurbere, but what evidence suggests that the Derriphans made up a substantial portion of Revan's fleet? They are obviously not that good so I don't see why Revan would use many of them. And we only see Interdictors in KOTOR - which would suggest these vessels are rare.

Edited by Beniboybling
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Really? Curious, what outcome did you expect? (A question to everyone.) I didn't do a tally for this one, and only managed to do half a tally for the last one. Simply because the tri-battle format meant that combatants didn't fight each other on the same terms head to head. It was all about scenarios, which can't really be counted. If I had done a tally it likely would have given an 'incorrect' outcome.

 

Well, we had scenarios in which Traya won, we had scenarios in which Kun won and we had scenarios in which Xizor won. Some scenarios were more likely, others were less likely. So you could give points to scenarios based on how likely they are.

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Well, we had scenarios in which Traya won, we had scenarios in which Kun won and we had scenarios in which Xizor won. Some scenarios were more likely, others were less likely. So you could give points to scenarios based on how likely they are.
True, I might go back and do that to satifisy some of our disgruntled competitors :p. But I guess I basically did that in my head.
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It wasn't, which is the point. Nobody came up with any arguments for Xizor defeating Traya, despite me raising the point on several occassions. Admittedly I didn't mention this point during the debate (although I did ask what would happen if if Traya beat Kun and Traya supplied Xizor with false information about her death), but I only really had to 'invent it' at the end because nobody put forward arguments for Traya's defeat.

 

My point is that no one made an argument about how Traya would beat Xizor either. That wasn't an argument made by someone else, it was an argument made by you. By that same logic, Xizor auto-wins against Traya, because no one, including you, made any scenarios in which Traya killed Xizor (until they very end when it could not be refuted).

 

I've never been -really- unhappy with an outcome before, but I feel like your senario was an excuse for you to carry Traya into the finals. A Traya vs. Xizor battle after Kun was dead could have ended MANY other ways than what you decided was correct.

 

But oh well.

 

I'm looking forward to the G0-T0 vs. Traya battle. What's gonna happen with the allies, seeing as Hanharr and The Exile are both kinda cross-teamed?

Edited by Warren-Stride
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P.S. Just a query here Aurbere, but what evidence suggests that the Derriphans made up a substantial portion of Revan's fleet? They are obviously not that good so I don't see why Revan would use many of them. And we only see Interdictors in KOTOR - which would suggest these vessels are rare.

 

Following Kun's defeat, the Sith Empire under Lords Darth Revan and Darth Malak discovered the design's blueprints and produced more of them, using the massive Star Forge. They were effective against the Republic's frigates, but suffered massive casualties due to having no shields.[2]
-Wookieepedia

 

Navy

■Interdictor-class Cruisers such as the Leviathan were among the finest Republic vessels of the time period.

■Centurion-class battlecruisers exemplified by the Ravager.

■Derriphan-class battleships

■Sith interceptors were a hybrid of Republic and Rakatan technologies mass produced by the Star Forge.

■KT-400 military droid carriers

■Herald-class shuttles

-Wookieepedia

 

That's what I have for now. The Derriphans were one of the Star Forge's main naval products along with the Sith interceptors. The majority of the remaining naval forces came from stolen Republic vessels like the Interdictor and the Centurion.

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My point is that no one made an argument about how Traya would beat Xizor either. That wasn't an argument made by someone else, it was an argument made by you. By that same logic, Xizor auto-wins against Traya, because no one, including you, made any scenarios in which Traya killed Xizor (until they very end when it could not be refuted).

 

I've never been -really- unhappy with an outcome before, but I feel like your senario was an excuse for you to carry Traya into the finals. A Traya vs. Xizor battle after Kun was dead could have ended MANY other ways than what you decided was correct.

 

But oh well.

 

I'm looking forward to the G0-T0 vs. Traya battle. What's gonna happen with the allies, seeing as Hanharr and The Exile are both kinda cross-teamed?

I understand, and I think I made a mistake in calling it that soon. But it was honestly just a mistake, I had already asked on multiple occasions what would happen between Traya vs Xizor and no arguments where forthcoming. I should have put it to the table again but I guess I was eager to wrap up the lengthy debate and didn't think to. Although I did consider what would happen personally, and couldn't think of any ways for Xizor to kill Traya who could easily just disappear.

 

And for the finals (and this round) - no allies. However I think I'll allow the Mass Shadow Generator, to make it fair for G0-T0.

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That's what I have for now. The Derriphans were one of the Star Forge's main naval products along with the Sith interceptors. The majority of the remaining naval forces came from stolen Republic vessels like the Interdictor and the Centurion.

That's what I mean. Based on this Revan could have between 3 and 300. 'More' is a very vague term.
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That's what I mean. Based on this Revan could have between 3 and 300. 'More' is a very vague term.

 

That's a good point. I'm trying to find more info on the number of ships produced by the Star Forge, but it should be noted that the Derriphans were enough to get Revan started.

 

Not that the number of Derriphans really matters as they are just cannon fodder. Really, a very small portion of Xizor's fleet (the one seen at Coruscant) could handle any number of Derriphans.

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True, I might go back and do that to satifisy some of our disgruntled competitors :p. But I guess I basically did that in my head.

 

I just skimmed over the arguments and did a quick attempt to count points. (Which might not hold much water.) I ended up with

 

Xizor: 26

Kun: 26

Traya: 22

 

This battle seems so close that we could also simply flip a three-sided coin to decide it :D (This way of thinking makes it easier for me to accept the outcome.)

Edited by Maaruin
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■Interdictor-class Cruisers such as the Leviathan were among the finest Republic vessels of the time period.

■Centurion-class battlecruisers exemplified by the Ravager.

■Derriphan-class battleships

■Sith interceptors were a hybrid of Republic and Rakatan technologies mass produced by the Star Forge.

■KT-400 military droid carriers

■Herald-class shuttles

 

This is Revan's Navy?....Wow....ya his navy is kinda...well anyway lets go through each of em.

=======

 

Centurion-Class battlecruisers

 

6 medium turbolasers

 

6 heavy ion cannons

 

6 light point defense laser cannons

 

Proton Torpedo launchers(lets just say 2)

======

 

This ship realistically, is the only ship that could last and even then thats a stretch.

==

 

Interdictor-class cruiser

 

6 medium turbolasers

 

6 point defense laser batteries

======

 

Derriphan battleships...ya we already went through these, POS.

======

 

Sith Fighters

 

Max Speed(atmosphere)= 1,250 km/h

 

Hull= Minimum Integrity

 

Armament: 2 laser cannons

======

 

Ok now lets look at what Xizor can bring to the table.

=====

 

Venator class Star Destroyer

 

Armament: 8 heavy dual DBY-827 tubolaser cannons, 2 medium dual turbolaser cannons, an unknown number of turbolasers(could be a modification in which Xizor would more then likely do.) 52 point defense laser cannons, 4 heavy proton torpedo tubes, 14 torpedos each.

===

 

Alpha-3 Nimbus-class starfighter

 

Max acceleration: 4,000 G

 

Max speed(atmosphere): 1,050 to 52,000 km/h(with deflector shields on)

 

Armament: 2 twin laser cannons, some were also equipped with flak guns and proton bombs.

===

 

Ya....Revan is seriously outclassed fleet wise here, was also gonna throw in the Mon Calamari ships and whatever else Xizor has but...nah.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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This is Revan's Navy?....Wow....ya his navy is kinda...well anyway lets go through each of em.

=======

 

Centurion-Class battlecruisers

 

6 medium turbolasers

 

6 heavy ion cannons

 

6 light point defense laser cannons

 

Proton Torpedo launchers(lets just say 2)

======

 

This ship realistically, is the only ship that could last and even then thats a stretch.

==

 

Interdictor-class cruiser

 

6 medium turbolasers

 

6 point defense laser batteries

======

 

Derriphan battleships...ya we already went through these, POS.

======

 

Sith Fighters

 

Max Speed(atmosphere)= 1,250 km/h

 

Hull= Minimum Integrity

 

Armament: 2 laser cannons

======

 

Ok now lets look at what Xizor can bring to the table.

=====

 

Venator class Star Destroyer

 

Armament: 8 heavy dual DVY-827 tubolaser cannons, 2 medium dual turbolaser cannons, an unknown number of turbolasers(could be a modification in which Xizor would more then likely do.) 52 point defense laser cannons, 4 heavy proton torpedo tubes, 14 torpedos each.

===

 

Alpha-3 Nimbus-class starfighter

 

Max acceleration: 4,000 G

 

Max speed(atmosphere): 1,050 to 52,000 km/h(with deflector shields on)

 

Armament: 2 twin laser cannons, some were also equipped with flak guns and proton bombs.

===

 

Ya....Revan is seriously outclassed fleet wise here, was also gonna throw in the Mon Calamari ships and whatever else Xizor has but...nah.

 

Now you know why I voted Grievous. :p

 

Seriously, Revan's navy is clearly outclassed. His capital ships are outclassed by any equivalent ships Xizor can bring in.

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