Name a single MMO that balance has not been an ongoing issue in, particularly class-based games. Your abilities will change over time, this is not only the nature of playing MMOs but basically the nature of playing any game online.

I completely agree that this is the nature of all MMO's. I get that. My problem however, is making changes so dramatically (that they require everyone to respec) and so frequently (60-90 day intervals) that players give up trying to enjoy the game.

So yes, this happens in every MMO however players are much MUCH less tolerant as a result.

I completely agree that this is the nature of all MMO's. I get that. My problem however, is making changes so dramatically (that they require everyone to respec) and so frequently (60-90 day intervals) that players give up trying to enjoy the game.

 

So yes, this happens in every MMO however players are much MUCH less tolerant as a result.

You're assuming that the changes are all severe, some of them could just be very minor but they've decided to give the free point refund anyway. I say that with a pinch of salt.

I completely agree that this is the nature of all MMO's. I get that. My problem however, is making changes so dramatically (that they require everyone to respec) and so frequently (60-90 day intervals) that players give up trying to enjoy the game.

 

So yes, this happens in every MMO however players are much MUCH less tolerant as a result.

I'll give them a pass to do a full balance pass once, especially because I do feel there are some significant issues with the balance between classes. However, if they don't have the balance "mostly" right, and we see another major revision in another 3-4 months, I will have to wonder what's going on.

As for SWG....they completely gutted their game and changed it. I doubt we'll see anything so major.

I completely agree that this is the nature of all MMO's. I get that. My problem however, is making changes so dramatically (that they require everyone to respec) and so frequently (60-90 day intervals) that players give up trying to enjoy the game.

 

So yes, this happens in every MMO however players are much MUCH less tolerant as a result.

GASP They are going to make me pick my talents again, and after that i only get 1 free one every 7 days to change it besides the fact that i could also just pay for it myself!!! THE HORROR!!!

Seriously, A) No one has said respec, its still rumor B) even if we have to "respec" if they change ONE talent in the tree, the whole tree needs to be reset for fairness to players. You act like having to respec is like walking through the desert on 1 canteen of water. C)Every 60-90 days? Man did i miss respecing again at the 2 month interval? Oh wait, no i havent because we havent had to yet. God forbid they try to balance up the underperfoming classes (pure DPS specs i'm looking @ you!) and make them have to respec since they're useless talents get replaced.

You guys DO realize, that even if they remove a single skill (or replace it) because of the whole tree system they'd HAVE to reset those players skill tree?

Not to mention the fact that resetting the tree isn't a big deal in this game. They already reset the cost to 0 when it's been 7 days (or more) since the last one. Heck, they could throw in an extra free reset every patch just for kicks and it really wouldn't be a big deal.

Quite a pickle BioWare is in. If they work extra long to make sure their content is solid, people complain. If BioWare puts out content without taking extra time to make sure the content is solid, people complain.

 

Actually I wouldn't call it a pickle. I'd call it a catch.

Truth.

No matter what Bioware does there will be complainers or people just not satisfied with what's going on with the game. We all have the same choices, play and enjoy the game as it is or go do something else.

I am shocked that BW released a game that requires a full skill reset within 4 months. I had much higher expectations for Bioware and the fact that this game was in development and beta testing for so long.

Rift had multiple skill resets for different classes within a shorter time period than this. It's better to have resets than to have to pay to reset for the change. The only thing I wish all of the MMO companies would do is let you see where your skills are prior to the reset so you have an idea of what you vs. what you need to change.

You're assuming that the changes are all severe, some of them could just be very minor but they've decided to give the free point refund anyway. I say that with a pinch of salt.

I truly hope you're right. Some of us SWG refugees have been so abused that we are extremely sensitive to this stuff.

GASP They are going to make me pick my talents again, and after that i only get 1 free one every 7 days to change it besides the fact that i could also just pay for it myself!!! THE HORROR!!!

 

Seriously, A) No one has said respec, its still rumor B) even if we have to "respec" if they change ONE talent in the tree, the whole tree needs to be reset for fairness to players. You act like having to respec is like walking through the desert on 1 canteen of water. C)Every 60-90 days? Man did i miss respecing again at the 2 month interval? Oh wait, no i havent because we havent had to yet. God forbid they try to balance up the underperfoming classes (pure DPS specs i'm looking @ you!) and make them have to respec since they're useless talents get replaced.

Changing classes around to the point where a respec is needed by all players is "horrible" to say the least. We invest both time and money into playing our characters based on the current rule set of the game. When that is changed so dramatically and so often it can sometimes negate your investment in the game.

"So go play something else" you say? Well that's exactly what me and 300,000 or so of my closest friends did over at SWG. Everyone left. Everyone.

I'll give them a pass to do a full balance pass once, especially because I do feel there are some significant issues with the balance between classes. However, if they don't have the balance "mostly" right, and we see another major revision in another 3-4 months, I will have to wonder what's going on.

 

As for SWG....they completely gutted their game and changed it. I doubt we'll see anything so major.

I understand where most are coming from with the frustration. My Jugg is my main... been waiting since launch to see how they approach balancing my favorite class. And Im sure smugg/agents are in a similar boat.

But one Pass? WoW almost completely redid their classes at least 2-3 times each. It never stopped people from griping (as well as giving constructive feedback mind you), and it never stopped the "balance" bandwagon. And people certainly didn't leave in "droves" either.

Personally I shudder at the word balance now. it sounds good, but I've seen far too many MMO's destroy the nature of the individual classes for the sake of "balance" make sure all classes are effective is good. but we have to be careful of balance...but that's off the subject.

I think so far they're doing a great job in response...those that feel like they are going to give Bio "one more chance" can certainly do so...those that leave because they are dissatisfied have that right. But I'm enjoying the game, and will continue to do so. And I highly doubt Bio will suddenly change the game just for those who feel that they can bully Bio into appeasing them.

you guys are really going off into your own little worlds.

he said there will be balance changes for all classes in 1.2

that was it, the end. no details, nothing.

...and people just went off on their own little stories and turned it into some dramatic thing.

you know last i checked every mmo game out there has class balance changes on pretty much every patch that comes out.

this is not something new and scary.

Hmm... I enjoy my characters classess now AND am excited to see the changes. From SWG, I think I see it more as the expertise type tweaks they were doing toward the end more than the complete system change of the CU and NGE.

Refreshing and updating a living breathing MMO is good. Gutting it completely; not so good.

This isn't a single-player game where you can just mothball it for a month until a big patch comes out to fix it; we're paying monthly subscriptions here and once we stop paying, we're not coming back.

Why not? I've been playing multiple mmorpgs in the same period of time for years now.

What until recently was my main game I got a lifetime sub for, atm I'm mainly playing SWTOR but will check back in that game when the next patch hits. A few months backs I reactivated my Rift sub for 2 months to check what had changed. Last year I even reactivated my FFXI sub that I hadn't played for 5 years or so.

I don't see why a game needs to be single player to mothball it. The stuff you might have "missed" during you absence in an mmorpg is usually caught up with a week or 2 anyways.

I wouldn't call it either. I'd call it 100% par for the course with the MMORPG player crowd and proof of Lincoln's famous "you can please some of the people all the time and yuo can please all the people some of the time, but you can't lpeaase all the people all the time." The corollary to all of that, of course, is that some people can never be pleased. EVER. And THEY will be the most vocal of all because they view the world as against them and live in a constant victimhood echo chamber bubble where every single little slight theyfeel to their wants and desires is another confirmation that everyone and everything is out to screw them.

LOL, this post should be stickied because it sums up the attitude of so many that come to the forums and post.

Great post... I agree 100%

you guys are really going off into your own little worlds.

 

he said there will be balance changes for all classes in 1.2

 

that was it, the end. no details, nothing.

 

...and people just went off on their own little stories and turned it into some dramatic thing.

 

 

 

you know last i checked every mmo game out there has class balance changes on pretty much every patch that comes out.

 

this is not something new and scary.

There were two separate quotes actually. The one in this thread and then this one here...

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3274813#edit3274813

We have some changes coming for all classes. Enough that we're granting everyone a free respec. What constitutes a nerf and what is a buff is in the eye of the beholder....

So if they are changing "all class" to the point where they are "granting everyone a free respec" just a few months into the game it makes some of us a little nervous given our experience with SWG and previous MMO's.

 

So if they are changing "all class" to the point where they are "granting everyone a free respec" just a few months into the game it makes some of us a little nervous given our experience with SWG and previous MMO's.

Not to mention the nerf they did to Scoundrel/Scrapper shortly after the game launched. Or the rebalancing of Surge. All of it has made me a little nervous, when it seems like many of these things should have been ironed out during the lengthy beta testing.

There were two separate quotes actually. The one in this thread and then this one here...

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3274813#edit3274813

 

 

 

So if they are changing "all class" to the point where they are "granting everyone a free respec" just a few months into the game it makes some of us a little nervous given our experience with SWG and previous MMO's.

As previously noted, this absolutely does NOT indicate that every class is getting a major overhaul.

As previously noted, this absolutely does NOT indicate that every class is getting a major overhaul.

I really really hope that's the case. I really do. The fact that they're making changes to "all" classes and they are handing out a "free respec" to everyone is the part that makes me nervous.

I don't want to spend months getting my characters to the point where I enjoy playing them only to have to the carpet pulled out from under me and have to learn to play again.

I really really hope that's the case. I really do. The fact that they're making changes to "all" classes and they are handing out a "free respec" to everyone is the part that makes me nervous.

 

I don't want to spend months getting my characters to the point where I enjoy playing them only to have to the carpet pulled out from under me and have to learn to play again.

In all likelyhood, the changes to most classes will probably be more minor. Maybe some skill trees will be moved around, maybe some skills adjusted in terms of power or energy costs.

Probably though, we're going to see something done about Tracer Missile. Not nerfed so much, but maybe some benefits given to Tracer Missile moved to other skills instead. But that is just speculation. Maybe they'll just move all the BH abilities into tracer missile, and it will become truly a one button class.

In all likelyhood, the changes to most classes will probably be more minor. Maybe some skill trees will be moved around, maybe some skills adjusted in terms of power or energy costs.

 

Probably though, we're going to see something done about Tracer Missile. Not nerfed so much, but maybe some benefits given to Tracer Missile moved to other skills instead. But that is just speculation. Maybe they'll just move all the BH abilities into tracer missile, and it will become truly a one button class.

I would be happy if they just changed the animation. Right now it borders on obscene. I always wonder what exactly my character is doing when he bends over and starts fiddling around and stuff.

I would be happy if they just changed the animation. Right now it borders on obscene. I always wonder what exactly my character is doing when he bends over and starts fiddling around and stuff.

You've just got to worry when bent over if a Hutt asks you to squeal like an Ugnaught.

There are balance adjustments to all classes in Game Update 1.2.

 

Details should be available as soon as 1.2 hits the Public Test Server.

 

I will abstain from discussing details before that happens for the simple fact that without having the big picture (e.g. the sum of all changes), discussion is moot.

 

-- Georg

When will it be on the PTS?

You've just got to worry when bent over if a Hutt asks you to squeal like an Ugnaught.

Well I do have a pretty mouth. I mean... my character does. Wait... am I on the wrong forum?