I am staying on topic.

 

Your Advanced Class choice is a sub-stage of specialisation, I suspect put in place to segregate the core abilities of Healers and Tanks that sit on the AC list of abilities rather than those found on the Specialisation itself, that has no bearing on any of the meaningful identifiers of your class. (At most it determines weapon type, which has always been a weird and slightly PvP centric decision that doesn't really mesh in my mind with the game setting). All it allows you to do is modify your choice of roles, something that specialisation already allows you to do.

 

The choice to limit the roles of certain classes across the ACs (Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior have no Healers, Smuggler/Imperial Agent have no Tanks) was a mistake in my opinion. As was restricting weapon usage to specific ACs (there are plenty of threads through out the history of the game asking for greater weapon choice). Or, fixing the animations so firmly between the mirror classes (again, there are threads out there requesting the ability for Dark side jedi to fling lightning). Not to mention the thought of some sort of faction swap (the fall to the dark side and redemption is the core theme of Star Wars afterall).

 

Now, the game is too far along to really upend the character design process and the progression through the levels. But, I would hope that the Devs could see that expanding the range of ACs across the Classes and placing in an AC swap feature goes some way to address the above issues. Without actually needing to reach into the guts of the established balancing of abilities.

You are definitely for it. I understand that. You don't have to explain yourself more Vhaegrant. I can see why you want it though. I have already stated why I don't want it and stick to it.

So, you're anti-AC swapping and don't want to see it in the game ever.

It would seem neither of us wants it in the game. You've gone on record saying it in the past.

So, you're anti-AC swapping and don't want to see it in the game ever.

Yes, I am anti-AC swapping and don't want to see it in the game ever.

Also, in that case. Let's not make any difficulty settings for any Operations. Let's make an instant level 55 in the Cartel Market. Make it so you don't have to pay any credits while stripping out mods in gear. If it's purely for entertainment value make it so you can instantly change to any class you want like Eden Eternal. Make it so you can use blasters, sabers, pistols, vibroknives, vibroblades and everything so we can just have fun. They can also take out the leveling system because sometimes for some folks, it's not that fun leveling through some brackets. Make repairs cost nothing, make speeders at level 1 so everybody can be happy about getting around. If it's just used by some for strictly entertainment value, then you would welcome these additions!

 

But games aren't made for strict entertainment value. Everything we do, including games, must have at least somewhat of a challenge, choices and consequences to those actions then you find out how you deal with it as you grow as a person within the game. Some games have helped me understand things in real life because of the challenges, dialogue, choices and outcomes (good or bad). People don't necessarily use games as a way of keeping on challenging themselves in real life. I am merely stating that it is good to have choices that have an effect on you in every aspect of what it is you choose to do in the world so in a way, it makes you grow more because you keep that aspect in your life through everything you do. Everything begins with choice. Yes, that also means entertainment in this case mmorpgs in this case SWTOR.

- There are already 3 difficulty setting for Operations - Story mode, Hard Mode and Nightmare Mode.

- I never suggested insta leveling to 55, but I don't see it being an unreal thing since WoW now has it. I don't support that, but I understand why it would be valuable to some players.

- I would LOVE to see all mod costs for extracting them removed because I could then invest in CM armors without breaking myself to switch out my chest piece for a mere cosmetic change.

- People have been asking for more weapon diversity for ages and I would support that as well. My Commando's 1st weapon is a Blaster Rifle, but somewhere after picking an AC, I forgot how to use it effectively it seems. Variety here would be a great thing imo! It would need to be practical (melee weapons to melee and ranged to ranged), but I'd surely support that as well.

- Until the last patch (I believe), players did have speeders at level 1...I'm fine with that. Not having them seems like a silly attempt to make the starter planets larger than they are.

Games are made to make the Developer money. The way they accomplish that is by making them entertaining and fun to play. I'm fine with challenges and consequences, but I don't believe that something as trivial as my AC should be anything permanent. In my opinion, it's no different than growing tired of the look you have, where you change race, hair color, armor, whatever, to spruce up your character and make them feel "fresh" again. My AC choice has ZERO impact on you. Whether I log on my Mando or my VG, what difference does it make in your gameplay? To me though, it's a big enough difference that it keeps me playing and keeps the game "fresh" for me. Does it really matter to YOU if I pick my Commando over my Vanguard to play or just swap my AC to the other?

Again, I'm fine with the choices I've made, but I also believe in making it as easy as possible for the PLAYERS who didn't pick right at level 10, to play something that might keep them entertained and subbed to THIS game. If that means swapping something as meaningless as AC, I'm all for it. What possible harm comes from allowing this?

- There are already 3 difficulty setting for Operations - Story mode, Hard Mode and Nightmare Mode.

- I never suggested insta leveling to 55, but I don't see it being an unreal thing since WoW now has it. I don't support that, but I understand why it would be valuable to some players.

- I would LOVE to see all mod costs for extracting them removed because I could then invest in CM armors without breaking myself to switch out my chest piece for a mere cosmetic change.

- People have been asking for more weapon diversity for ages and I would support that as well. My Commando's 1st weapon is a Blaster Rifle, but somewhere after picking an AC, I forgot how to use it effectively it seems. Variety here would be a great thing imo! It would need to be practical (melee weapons to melee and ranged to ranged), but I'd surely support that as well.

- Until the last patch (I believe), players did have speeders at level 1...I'm fine with that. Not having them seems like a silly attempt to make the starter planets larger than they are.

 

Games are made to make the Developer money. The way they accomplish that is by making them entertaining and fun to play. I'm fine with challenges and consequences, but I don't believe that something as trivial as my AC should be anything permanent. In my opinion, it's no different than growing tired of the look you have, where you change race, hair color, armor, whatever, to spruce up your character and make them feel "fresh" again. My AC choice has ZERO impact on you. Whether I log on my Mando or my VG, what difference does it make in your gameplay? To me though, it's a big enough difference that it keeps me playing and keeps the game "fresh" for me. Does it really matter to YOU if I pick my Commando over my Vanguard to play or just swap my AC to the other?

 

Again, I'm fine with the choices I've made, but I also believe in making it as easy as possible for the PLAYERS who didn't pick right at level 10, to play something that might keep them entertained and subbed to THIS game. If that means swapping something as meaningless as AC, I'm all for it. What possible harm comes from allowing this?

So it seems you are in favor of all that stuff I said. Interesting. I got your viewpoint now from that TUXs and understand why you say the stuff you do now.

To reiterate. Yes, I am anti AC change at any time at all in this game, period. Don't expect to see it anytime soon.

So it seems you are in favor of all that stuff I said. Interesting. I got your viewpoint now from that TUXs and understand why you say the stuff you do now.

 

To reiterate. Yes, I am anti AC change at any time at all in this game, period. Don't expect to see it anytime soon.

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from Sarfux...I completely agree with you when you say you like to have consequences (for a lack of a better word) for actions in the game...I totally get that and I agree with you. However, I also feel that when it comes to MMOs, "consequences" need to be adjustable to keep players interested (variety keeps players going).

My only hope in AC swaps being a reality is regaining (or retaining) players who aren't happy with what they picked, or to help players who would switch roles to fill a need that they see (such as a tank). My desire for this is because I honestly believe it would be good for the GAME...not me, I won't use it, but I believe others would.

I'm not trying to trivialize anything anyone else has done, I'm simply trying to support something that I think could help retain players long term.

It would seem neither of us wants it in the game. You've gone on record saying it in the past.

I would be impressed if you could find a quote of mine in context that says I don't want to see the AC swap feature in game. I have said it may not have the highest priority, but I have always been for it being included at some point.

You on the other hand seem to have a reluctance to say directly that you are against it, instead relying on sarcasm and avoidance.

I would be impressed if you could find a quote of mine in context that says I don't want to see the AC swap feature in game. I have said it may not have the highest priority, but I have always been for it being included at some point.

 

You on the other hand seem to have a reluctance to say directly that you are against it, instead relying on sarcasm and avoidance.

I am against it. It is the LAST thing they should add before shutting down the servers.

I am against it. It is the LAST thing they should add before shutting down the servers.

There, that wasn't so hard now was it

I still don't understand the hostility to AC swapping. But I respect your right to disagree.

There, that wasn't so hard now was it

 

I still don't understand the hostility to AC swapping. But I respect your right to disagree.

It is not hostility Vhaegrant. It is an oppostion to something somebody else wants that said person doesn't want. It's just a disagreement. Not hostility. Very different.

It is not hostility Vhaegrant. It is an oppostion to something somebody else wants that said person doesn't want. It's just a disagreement. Not hostility. Very different.

That wasn't directed at you specifically (although ultimatums do carry a certain undertone with them ). I've been around this topic for awhile now and you would be surprised at how strongly opposed some of the posters have been, and how personally they seem to have taken the argument.

I started off interested in the topic as it seemed to offer up the potential to integrate a wider range of customisation into the hands of the player at no appreciable risk of unbalancing the mechanics behind the game.

Some of my wilder speculations have been to expand the AC swap into a larger framework by giving players the sort of weapon choice and animation choice that several other MMOs already offer.

Player housing would suggest to me that the Devs are starting to understand that players want more control over their SWTOR experience (of course a lot of that depends on the level of creative input the players will have) and will spend more time in game with a character they feel attached to.

There, that wasn't so hard now was it

 

I still don't understand the hostility to AC swapping. But I respect your right to disagree.

No hostility. Just dislike of the option.

I just wish I had made my SI a sorc instead of an assassin and ny JC a shadow instead of a sage and don't want to lose everything I have on them by re rolling. It's no different than faction changing in WoW if I want to pay for it what does it matter to everyone against it.

I had a similar situation a couple months after the game launched. I often wished that my Sorcerer had been an Assassin, so when the time came - I rolled a Shadow. I enjoyed Shadow quite a bit and as a direct result, I rolled an Assassin immediately after finishing Shadow. I can't, however, think of a single thing that I "lost" on my Sorcerer by rolling an Assassin. But what I gained was another Tank on the Imperial side, and the experience of playing Inquisitor from a different angle. I didn't loose anything, except maybe some in-game time that I would have spent ... wait for it .... in-game to begin with ... so yeah, no loss there either.

While I cannot speak for everyone, the reason *I* am opposed is because I believe the Dev time should be spent on more important issues. For the entire lifetime of this very thread, up until the most recent patch, players would habitually crash at the end of certain Flashpoints. But for the longest time, reskinning ugly armor to sell on the CM was more important to the Devs than to fix an issue with their code that caused people to crash at the end of certain content.

That is one way that it directly impacts me personally, for the "pro-AC swap" crowd to get what they want, the rest of the community is forced to suffer through known/new bugs for that much longer.

While I cannot speak for everyone, the reason *I* am opposed is because I believe the Dev time should be spent on more important issues. For the entire lifetime of this very thread, up until the most recent patch, players would habitually crash at the end of certain Flashpoints. But for the longest time, reskinning ugly armor to sell on the CM was more important to the Devs than to fix an issue with their code that caused people to crash at the end of certain content.

I thought it had long been established that there is not ONE singular dev entity that is responsible for the development of the game but many teams each with their own focus... Combat team, Cartel Market Team, New Content Team, Bug Hunting Team, Engine Optimisation Team.

There is no reason to assume the time spent on Cartel Market has any impact on any other aspects of the game, just as there is no reason to assume the team responsible for Quality of Life features is the same team that hunts down and eliminates bugs.

That is one way that it directly impacts me personally, for the "pro-AC swap" crowd to get what they want, the rest of the community is forced to suffer through known/new bugs for that much longer.

Only Bioware have the metrics that would suggest which of these populations is the larger. I know I've played through 'Black Talon' and 'Esseles' a few dozen times and have only crashed out of it a couple of times, and on logging back in the quest was successfully updated so my time inside the FP was not lost. Of course, those affected by the bug are going to come to the forums and complain making them seem a far larger part of the community. Just as those with an interest in a feature who repeatedly post on a subject can inflate it into a seemingly 'huge issue of epic scope'.

I thought it had long been established that there is not ONE singular dev entity that is responsible for the development of the game but many teams each with their own focus... Combat team, Cartel Market Team, New Content Team, Bug Hunting Team, Engine Optimisation Team.

There is no reason to assume the time spent on Cartel Market has any impact on any other aspects of the game, just as there is no reason to assume the team responsible for Quality of Life features is the same team that hunts down and eliminates bugs.

I'd like to see where this long established knowledge comes from. Furthermore, if that *is* the case then the bug hunting team needs to be fired. Next, the senior staff ought to be fired for placing CM reskins on parity with bug fixes.

Only Bioware have the metrics that would suggest which of these populations is the larger. I know I've played through 'Black Talon' and 'Esseles' a few dozen times and have only crashed out of it a couple of times, and on logging back in the quest was successfully updated so my time inside the FP was not lost. Of course, those affected by the bug are going to come to the forums and complain making them seem a far larger part of the community. Just as those with an interest in a feature who repeatedly post on a subject can inflate it into a seemingly 'huge issue of epic scope'.

Not sure if you mean to be so ironic.

I'd like to see where this long established knowledge comes from. Furthermore, if that *is* the case then the bug hunting team needs to be fired. Next, the senior staff ought to be fired for placing CM reskins on parity with bug fixes.

It's a standard working practice of pretty much any development house of size.

Bug hunting is no different than any other aspect in that it has priorities. I've been affected by the Black Talon/Esseles crash a couple of times, it was not consistent (makes it a lot harder to track back to cause) and did not prevent me from advancing (aside from the slight inconvenience of restarting the client I didn't lose the quest reward) so I would place it at a lower priority.

Bug Hunting can be a much trickier beast on the PC as unlike the console market there is no gold standard for PC setups.

Again, the Cartel Market team is separate from the bug fixes. I'm not sure how useful placing a 'modelling artist' into a coding team would be.

Not sure if you mean to be so ironic.

Where did I exclude myself from that comment? Of course I know I inflate this subject as much as anyone else.

Where did I exclude myself from that comment? Of course I know I inflate this subject more than anyone else.

Fixed that for you. Were you not responding to every post, this thread would still be dead on page 3, and making its way to 300. You and Zahirs seem to be the only two people left in the forum who actually want this change. The number of views on the thread is likely just us and the lurkers hittin F5 to see if anything new has been said. They should just remove the AC and drop all 5 trees under the main class.

I don't see a problem with adding an advanced class change, the people on this forum are just screaming and crying about nothing. If someone wants to be fotm, they can just reroll. Bioware would make extra money with this option for people that simply would rather not spend the time to reroll. And it's not really a gamebreaking thing imo. I hope to see it happening.

By forcing someone to roll another character, they are now locking that person into another 40+ hours of game time, more CM items, and extension of a sub to allow for multiple active characters. Allowing people to put everything under one character actually reduces the amount of playtime and CM items purchased, in some cases. There is a good chance MOST of the ideas we represent will never be implemented as in some form, or another, they will actually cost BW more than they will make them.

Fixed that for you. Were you not responding to every post, this thread would still be dead on page 3, and making its way to 300. You and Zahirs seem to be the only two people left in the forum who actually want this change. The number of views on the thread is likely just us and the lurkers hittin F5 to see if anything new has been said. They should just remove the AC and drop all 5 trees under the main class.

Someone quoted me, I was respectful and responded to clarify my point. And, I didn't need to alter their post to make that point. I'm well aware of how often I post in this thread... as long as I'm on topic and respectful I didn't realise that was an issue.

I find it funny that your solution to keeping this thread off page one is to respond to every post I put up in kind. If you really wanted to see the thread fade from existence why are you so keen to respond?

But, not quite as funny as your suggested fix. Dropping the ACs and merging all the specs under one class is a terrible solution that would affect every player whether they wanted to use the feature or not and introduce balance issues between the specs (as certain specs would have access to core AC abilities, Tanks with self-heals for example).

By forcing someone to roll another character, they are now locking that person into another 40+ hours of game time, more CM items, and extension of a sub to allow for multiple active characters. Allowing people to put everything under one character actually reduces the amount of playtime and CM items purchased, in some cases. There is a good chance MOST of the ideas we represent will never be implemented as in some form, or another, they will actually cost BW more than they will make them.

No, they aren't. For some that works. For others that derails their zone - they break away from friends, pvp, ops (to level a new character with a new name), they get bored doing the same class quests, they see how non-special and unique their other character really was, breaking the magic, and they leave the game after 15-30 hours where they otherwise wouldn't have. See how that works? No one is "locked in" to anything just because they are "forced" to start a new character.

I never said it wasn't content. I said it was unimportant content to people like me and the wookie there. We both feel there are TONS of better features and content which should be implemented before they waste time and resources adding AC Swapping. Just my opinion of course. I have no influence with BW.

So your opposition is based on "I don't like it." That's fine as that is the only rational reason to oppose AC change.