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Add variety and content. Stop the focus on gear


FourPawnBenoni

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Here's my main point. The way that game trending is going, it needs to be easy to jump in and play. People don't want to spend time grinding gear anymore than what 4.0 era had. All these things with tacticals and amplifiers are unnecessary.

 

When your content revolves around doing things to get gear then its not going to attract people. Even WOW is bleeding subs.

 

Worried that pvp is too stale? Then add a new class and class story. That will add variety to game as well as pve content. Doesn't that sound more fun than grinding stuff to find optimal amplifiers?

 

Then you can spend more time on creating better maps, better ranked ideas, better operations, balance, etc

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Worried that pvp is too stale? Then add a new class and class story. That will add variety to game as well as pve content. Doesn't that sound more fun than grinding stuff to find optimal amplifiers?

 

They can't just do that, lol.

Sure it might be grand, but it's simply not happening.

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People can get hours/weeks/months of enjoyment playing around with builds and gear sets (i.e. new class meta), but new content is old and stale after a week. This is also why I'm baffled they never added new classes, subclasses, or specs.

 

"Sure you've done X content 100 times, but have you done it on a Ninja???" <player creates a ninja and does X content 20 more times>

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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I play Story only. To me "Gear" is basically a Non Issue. Just doing the Heroics for the money is good enough on my typically casual rate. FlashPoints (especially the Older ones) is for the experience and sometimes associated Deco's. I really prefer the old flashpoints, they are longer and so many cut scenes/ dialog they're almost like mini stories in themselves; longer and more story then some of the planet expansions themselves. The GC to me is fluff, no importance at all. I do like to get better parts for my gear, but I'm certainly not going to spend any time more then I feel like grinding.
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The biggest problem i have with gear isn't the grind, but the runaway power creep that frankly isn't needed in this game. You got all these rated gears between 128 uncommon and 230 artifact that aren't being used any more and just keeps going, when 6.0 arrives, 230, 234, 236, 240, 244 and 248 will be written off and something like 256 is the new basic rating, it seems pointless to give it a higher number and keep advancing it.

 

If the developers readjusted the rating down to 134, 138, 140, 144, 148 and put some of those into legendary, changed the numbers but kept it all powerful. constant checks and balances wouldn't be needed and it would allow the developers to focus their efforts on other things, even new operations knowing what they know about the rating being static and could tailor their entire experience around it. It really doesn't need to increase or change as it is redundant idea beyond the illusion of something better.

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Actually the issue is there are no radiant quests and no evolving dungeons. Everything is the exact same every time you play it. Same mobs, same number of mobs, standing in the same spot, in the same room, using the same strategy as the last thousand times you played it. The most enjoyable mmos have quest generation and randomization features instead of the same quests on repeat.
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Gearing is an important part of an MMO, if people find it fun or not, if they can customize their builds, it's one of the most important deciding factor for most people on how long their gonna stay with this game, if the gearing not fun then they will leave.
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The focus on gear is absolutely necessary, IMHO. Ossus was a case-study in how to frustrate your current player-base, and it's up to Bioware to fix it and make good.

 

I am looking forward to being able to grind for and fine-tune gear to suit my playstyle. Ossus grind was off balance, and hope devs get a lot of feedback and data during PTS ... and ACTUALLY FIX things that are turning off the majority of testers before rolling out the expansion.

 

I also hope the expansion has a well acted, amazing story, gorgeous environment, and the new operation will keep raiders like me occupied for a long while. Then again I'm also keenly aware of how much more resource intensive story / environment development is vs. gearing and combat balance, and probably not going out on a wild limb assuming SWTOR's budget is an infinitessimal fraction of what it was during Vanilla development.

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Purposefully obtuse.

 

The Ossus gearing method is frustrating, but all other types of gearing are frustrating? No.

 

I'm pro-non-frustrating gearing.

 

Lol as someone who was so frustrated by the simple addition of gear to ossus I decided to not use it, I concur. I'm for non-frustrating gearing that doesn't change 15 times an expansion.

 

Itd be nice if they ended the gear-as-content model though.

Edited by KendraP
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You all need to chill. Seriously.

 

Gearing was painful in this game and they are working to fix it.

They are also working to make it more fun and customizable.

 

This isn't a bad thing.

 

I get this may not be what you guys want to know about, but they spelled out exactly the pattern they would be releasing information on and this was next up. There were no surprises.

 

They also said they wouldn't be commenting on story, preferring to leave that as a surprise for the expansion.

 

So I am not too sure what else you want to hear about the new expansion? It's pretty obvious that gearing is the number one change they are able to talk about and they need the most feedback on as well.

 

Whining about it isn't going to make them change direction as this is a badly needed change. It's happening. Get over it.

 

There will be some other things discussed over the summer that I am sure will more suit the tastes of people in this thread. Just wait for that.

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Personally I play for story as well, but I want stuff to do in between stories, because they take a lot of time to put out, I don't want to have to always grind gear, but I would like to have something to set a goal for. I like how Dantooine is giving me a reason to actually do dailies/weeklies because I want the companion lol. But as far as gear goes, I eventually get bored of that treadmill and quit playing again after a month or two of casual play. I would also like them to try new types of content.
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Not commenting on story at all is a mistake.

 

It's all story players care about. Gear etc doesn't effect us. Still only have one toon out of 84 with a full set of command t1 gear. The rest don't even have that. It's just not an important part of story play.

 

Play MY way is playing the STORY. This also includes repeating it on whichever characters I want at any time. They CAN discuss it without actually giving spoilers about the actual story.

 

IE:

Will the new content be repeatable at will like the chapters are? Which so far is the only repeatable story content on any toon.

 

Will LIs and existing companions play a role at all? Dates? Letters? Conversation?

 

Will the story for any of the previous flashpoints and Iokath ever be made repeatable?

 

For starters for those 3 questions the answers would give zero spoilers but would give story players more incentive to get excited about going forward. As it stands right now, I wont be doing it when it first comes out, I will wait to see if it's worth doing because they've given me nothing to look forward to or be excited about as a story player.

 

Story is important for my 'Play my own way. The rest has minimal impact on it. Without 1 and 3 how can I even play MY WAY to gear up anyways so why should I care about it or how its going to happen?

Edited by Suzsi
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I came to this game as a story player. We know that they're continuing the imp v pub bit rather than the kotfe/et approach. Beyond that, sure, we don't know much.

 

Given the wildly different and game changing direction they're taking, however, I welcome any discussion they are willing to have on gearing, provided they actually do what they say they will and listen to the feedback they receive.

 

Story should be a surprise and something I want to experience unspoiled. Gearing should be a path to a goal that is known and concrete.

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You all need to chill. Seriously.

 

Gearing was painful in this game and they are working to fix it.

They are also working to make it more fun and customizable.

 

This isn't a bad thing.

 

I get this may not be what you guys want to know about, but they spelled out exactly the pattern they would be releasing information on and this was next up. There were no surprises.

 

They also said they wouldn't be commenting on story, preferring to leave that as a surprise for the expansion.

 

So I am not too sure what else you want to hear about the new expansion? It's pretty obvious that gearing is the number one change they are able to talk about and they need the most feedback on as well.

 

Whining about it isn't going to make them change direction as this is a badly needed change. It's happening. Get over it.

 

There will be some other things discussed over the summer that I am sure will more suit the tastes of people in this thread. Just wait for that.

 

flaming isn't helping your case and neither is it relevant to the topic.

 

I came to this game as a story player. We know that they're continuing the imp v pub bit rather than the kotfe/et approach. Beyond that, sure, we don't know much.

 

Given the wildly different and game changing direction they're taking, however, I welcome any discussion they are willing to have on gearing, provided they actually do what they say they will and listen to the feedback they receive.

 

Story should be a surprise and something I want to experience unspoiled. Gearing should be a path to a goal that is known and concrete.

 

Indeed, the story should be left unchecked and i wouldn't want any person on this forum dragging datamined content from the game storyline into a reedit thread and linked here, or heck some gratuitously placed thread with some user trolling about it on purpose with specific spoilers in the thread title, for example "Jadus returns and kills Acina/Vowrawn in Mission 1!", something like that needs to be caught immediately.

 

while i have a problem with gear power creep going on, gearing for the most part really isn't my biggest concern as having a really good storyline is far more important.

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Not commenting on story at all is a mistake.

 

It's all story players care about. Gear etc doesn't effect us. Still only have one toon out of 84 with a full set of command t1 gear. The rest don't even have that. It's just not an important part of story play.

 

Play MY way is playing the STORY. This also includes repeating it on whichever characters I want at any time. They CAN discuss it without actually giving spoilers about the actual story.

 

IE:

Will the new content be repeatable at will like the chapters are? Which so far is the only repeatable story content on any toon.

 

Will LIs and existing companions play a role at all? Dates? Letters? Conversation?

 

Will the story for any of the previous flashpoints and Iokath ever be made repeatable?

 

For starters for those 3 questions the answers would give zero spoilers but would give story players more incentive to get excited about going forward. As it stands right now, I wont be doing it when it first comes out, I will wait to see if it's worth doing because they've given me nothing to look forward to or be excited about as a story player.

 

Story is important for my 'Play my own way. The rest has minimal impact on it. Without 1 and 3 how can I even play MY WAY to gear up anyways so why should I care about it or how its going to happen?

 

 

I agree.

 

I don't have anything against talking about gear but it should not be only thing they talk about. Gear is tool for me to do things i like, not main attraction. Talking about story content is not same thing than spoiling story content. What i would like at minimum to know:

  • Will there be lot of story content or very little?
  • What form the story comes in (is it on planetary way like in vanilla class stories, is it in chapters or flashpoints or as separate pieces (like hearts and minds was)?
  • Will old companions be involved?
  • Will there be new companions introduced?
  • Is story repeatable?

 

Hearing about things like this would really make waiting for expansion exiting for me. Lack of information on other hand gives this sinking feeling that story content is put on background and we will only get minimal amounts of it.

 

When it comes to OP suggestion of new class with new class story, it would be really fun for me and i would really welcome it. :)

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I understand the reasoning about Bioware talking about gearing first, after all it has been a tremendous mess in the past couple years. It's also something that is important in retaining endgame players.

 

That said i'm eagerly expecting anything related to story since it's what i play SWTOR for, my questions for them about it would be:

1. Is the new story replayable (like vanilla with the choices/class story) or repeatable (like kotet/kotfe)?

2. Are the companions more involved (like the main companion in vanilla), especially the LIs or just there as flavor?

3. Any semblance of class story in 6.0 ( i know a full class story is probably impossible, but maybe a few simple quests with class flavor here and there)?

 

I sincerely hope 6.0 will bring fresh air to SWTOR.

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Exactly.

 

There are plenty of discussion or comments they could make that's story related without spoiling the story.

 

The fact that they aren't or won't isn't filling me with a lot of hope for 6.0. At this point I may unsub and come back later *if* theres anything worth coming back for re: story.

 

If I knew there were things to look forward to then I would be spending my time happily working on getting more toons ready for the expansion. Characters that haven't even done kotef or KoTET yet. What's the point in investing that time now though when I haven't got something to look forward to for them? I'll just end up dissapointed if there isn't.

 

Players who are gear focused already know where to turn their attentions - to the characters they want geared first. Max gear now means they start getting the next level of gear right up with the new system.

 

Its not so clear with story players.

 

Where gearers may have one main character to focus gear on and a couple of alts after - story players often have many more.

 

Most story players have at least one of each class story.

 

On top of that many other story players have one of each romance, meaning multiples for some classes.

 

And on top of that some like myself even have multiples of our fav romances.

 

Without details where do we focus our attentions?

I don't even think it's been dev confirmed that Kira is returning in 6.0 even though we knew when the other comps were returning to be ready for them.

 

So should I be focusing on my fav romances first if all LIs are going to get some love?

Should I instead be focusing on my JKs for the return of their BFF?

Should I just be focusing on getting my Theron and Lanamancers upto date if they are the only ones going to get some love?

Should we be focusing solely on brand new characters for the next set of romances with new companions?

 

Without at least a little bone to chew on how do we know where to direct our play hours at without wasting time on the wrong characters? This is why zero info on story can be very frustrating.

 

Don't give us the exact details of the story, when, why, how mich, dialogue, plot etc that's not what we are asking for..

Just a little bone our way to know where to focus attention now to be ready for the best experience when 6.0 does launch.

Edited by Suzsi
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I have over 50 players across 3 servers incorporating at least one of every advanced class, and am anxiously awaiting the story too.

 

To me, my main (a jedi guardian) will always be the first through the story, whatever that story may be.

 

The point I was making is that:

What is important is different to everyone, and it is gear that has been creating the more consistent stink. Some people hated kotfe/et (like myself) and some liked it (as demonstrated by the adamant defenders in every thread asking them to renege the focus on "commander".

 

So just like them, I'm here to say I am glad they are trying to be more transparent with gearing, and wish for them to continue seeking feedback, and sincerly hope they account for that feedback in the product they deliver.

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Actually the issue is there are no radiant quests and no evolving dungeons. Everything is the exact same every time you play it. Same mobs, same number of mobs, standing in the same spot, in the same room, using the same strategy as the last thousand times you played it. The most enjoyable mmos have quest generation and randomization features instead of the same quests on repeat.

 

Interesting, which ones are these? Looking over at the second monitor right now, I have DDO, GW, GW 2, ESO and Neverwinter shortcuts up, and none of those do this, Rappelz didn't do it either. The only game that I played that had procedurally generated content was Diablo, and a NWN mod that I worked on that generated mobs on an OnEnter script that varied according to player level. All of my MMO experience is exactly the same as it is here. This would include games like Aion, and Runes of Magic off the top of my head.

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How is frustrating the player base absolutely necessary?

 

Look at WoW. The most frustraing times for WoW gearing was Vanilla and Burning Crusade. Guess which times saw the playerbase increase?

 

Vanilla and Burning Crusade.

 

Wrath of the Lich King saw slight player growth, and that was easier gearing, and from there every expansion it was easier and easier to gear and the player base dwindled and dwindled.

 

Now you have BFA, which has epic gear all over the place, literally given to you, there's no challenges, no community spirit, and people left it in droves.....and now everyone is talking WoW again, but not because of BFA, but because vanilla servers are opening up, and all that challenge and misery is drawing them back in.

 

People need elitism. They need goals, and they need those goals to be frustrating in order to be satisfying. Frustration is absolutely necessary for a good mmo.

 

You got a good one liner for that?

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