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General Set Bonuses and Tactical Items


EricMusco

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Hey folks,

 

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. This thread is going to be about a lot of new things, because this is about special effects for everyone. As a reminder, our goal in Onslaught is to introduce new Set Bonuses along with Tactical Items that can help you to play the way you want! For Disciplines, this is a bit easier as you pick your favorite part of that class and then try to do more of it. But when it comes to “everyone” that becomes a bit trickier as any set bonus or tactical has to be usable by everyone. That likely means that it can only affect a few different things:

  • Travel
  • Crafting
  • Harvesting
  • "Flurry” attacks
  • Rest and recharge skills
  • etc

For context:

  • Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  • Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.

 

Please use this thread to brainstorm any ideas that you have around what general set bonuses and tactical items you would like to see in the game. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

 

-eric

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So this isn't entirely for everyone, but does apply to a lot of specs, specifically dot specs. As a tactical item, I would love an ability (could just be an entirely separate ability), that instantly does all of the dot damage on all targets at once. For example, if I applied a scorch to a target and used this ability, all remaining ticks of scorch that would have hit the target over the next X seconds would be applied instantly and scorch would be removed from the target. I would really make dotspread classes pressure with aoe too. If a madness sorc dotspread with deathfield and then immediately consumed every dot on all the targets that they spread to, it would apply immense pressure and would create some very interesting gameplay.

 

For balancing purposes, it might be worth making it so the ticks consumed with that ability cannot crit, so you'd be trading off overall damage for more burst and to prevent too high of damage hits (imagine if an entire scorch crit all at once). Also making the cooldown of this ability decently long, maybe like 1.5 minutes to make using it feel more satisfying and not just a rotational ability but still often enough where it doesn't feel like a 1 time ability like adrenals, kind of like recklessness. You'd want to use it as much as possible, but you'd want to time it correctly.

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Give sorcs reflect plz

 

I agree they need help defensively, but please no more reflects. That used to be my guardians thing. You know before another certain class took our identifying move.

 

no I'm not still bitter!

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Hey folks,

 

 

  • Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  • Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.

 

-eric

 

I'm still unclear on what a Tactical Item looks like.

Is it a mod that I add to a piece of armor ?

Is it a consumable ?

Is it a 15th piece of gear ?

Does it have a cooldown ?

 

I'm also fuzzy on how these are different than the Utility system already in place.

 

Clarifications welcome!

Thanks,

Brian

Edited by Rockula
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Hey folks,

 

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. This thread is going to be about a lot of new things, because this is about special effects for everyone. As a reminder, our goal in Onslaught is to introduce new Set Bonuses along with Tactical Items that can help you to play the way you want! For Disciplines, this is a bit easier as you pick your favorite part of that class and then try to do more of it. But when it comes to “everyone” that becomes a bit trickier as any set bonus or tactical has to be usable by everyone. That likely means that it can only affect a few different things:

  • Travel
  • Crafting
  • Harvesting
  • "Flurry” attacks
  • Rest and recharge skills
  • etc

For context:

  • Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  • Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.

 

Please use this thread to brainstorm any ideas that you have around what general set bonuses and tactical items you would like to see in the game. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

 

-eric

 

Well, i was kind of expecting a little more than that. What you have described for tactical items, it looks just too close to some of the options we already have with some of utilities. Tactical items is probably taking a lot of work to the dev team and it seems a complete waste if the effect is something so minor as what is described (changing ONE skill).

My hopes for tactical items were more close to this:

* A considerable buff to one aspect in general(not limited to a single skill): Defensives / Single target Damage / AoE dmg / Healing / Range / Movility

 

About general bonus set, from those options i would say that one for Crafting/Harvesting sounds very interesting for me.

 

Now, all these set bonus and items options do came with a caveat: inventory space. I know its difficult, but are there plans to increase the character inventory? An specific tab for gear would be nice :D

Edited by Balameb
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I'm still unclear on what a Tactical Item looks like.

Is it a mod that I add to a piece of armor ?

Is it a consumable ?

Is it a 15th piece of gear ?

Does it have a cooldown ?

 

I'm also fuzzy on how these are different than the Utility system already in place.

 

Clarifications welcome!

Thanks,

Brian

 

It's kind of clear in their post:

"One of the ways that we’re adding this depth is with an entirely new type of gear slot – Tactical items"

 

It is a 15th piece of gear. It is not a mod, doesn't have a cooldown (unless they work stuff in like clickable relics), it is not a consumable. It is in a way kind of like the utility system. However, utilities are not "build defining", these items will be. They modify how an ability works. Utilities buff some abilities, but don't (in nearly all cases) redefine how they work and when they are used. In essence though, I guess those items will be some kind of ultra-meaningful utility.

 

Another main difference is since it's gear, you got to obtain it (and utilities are just there to be selected).

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I'm still unclear on what a Tactical Item looks like.

Is it a mod that I add to a piece of armor ?

Is it a consumable ?

Is it a 15th piece of gear ?

Does it have a cooldown ?

 

I'm also fuzzy on how these are different than the Utility system already in place.

 

Clarifications welcome!

Thanks,

Brian

 

I too am unclear on these. I think I need a specific example of something the devs have in mind.

 

As for set bonuses, I'd like to see some pvp vs operations set bonus. Or perhaps even piloting set bonuses for people that like solo space missions (lol) and starfighter.

 

For tactical item, I'll take a shot in the dark: how about some buff to energy regen, or perhaps the Tac item raises my energy limit to 110 (instead of the standard 100 ceiling)? For example, when I play Scrapper, that spec is extremely energy hungry, particularly when fighting multiple targets. I'd love to have more energy to Sucker Punch the bad buys. Punching bad guys is music to the ears.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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I would love a set which would increase chance to harvest resources and as a 6pc bonus it would add a Stealth skill to any class. Just a simple stealth similar to the one on Iokath (so non-stealth classes run noticeably slower and have lower stealth level). This set should otherwise add nothing for combat, so it would not be usable for pvp.

It would be much easier to do all the gathering of mats on a non-stealth class (running through group of mobs instead of running a big circle around them) and also would allow for some mob skipping, but it should be clearly worse than any combat-oriented set, so it would not be a "main" set on character, but just an utility one.

 

I would love a Tactical item that would allow me to move decorations at least 30 points in each direction in stronghold :p

 

For a tank - not sure if it is possible - it would be nice to have a tactical item that would use his Defense instead of his Power and his Power as Defense when calculating damage againts PvE targets (not sure what implication it would have in PvP, so PvE only item). So tanks could go all out on defense in PvE (which is quite useless when it is higher than 3k now anyway) and just equip a tactical item when doing solo PvE or something easy as Story/Vet mode FP to increase their dps, without having to carry around a full dps set.

 

For a dps - tactical item that boosts damage when player is lower on health. It could be something like 5% when under 90%, 10% under 60% and 15% under 30% health. They like to stand in red circles anyway, so they might as well get a bonus for it :D

 

For a healer - if it would be possible to restrict to a spec - tactical item that boosts Presence and Accuracy. When soloing as healer, unless I feel like switching to dps spec, the mobs are killed by a companion and I just tickle them with my fluffy attacks, which miss most of the time anyway. So just something that would make my fluffy attack actually hit and the companion to mop up the mobs faster.

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So Im not sure if I have understood it correctly but here goes with my ideas

 

Tactical Items - Healer: For PVP Below 30% health you can perhaps make two different items where you can choose between outputting more healing to yourself or raising your endurance or shields... In PvE, it could be that if you are generating more threat you could have the same options as above...

 

Tactical Items - DPS: For DpS it could be that you have an instant cooldown of your hardest hitting ability (for example ambush on a sniper) if and once you get out of stun or get white-barred. It could also be something that for example could reward knowing when to stun break in PvP (so if you stun break and are whitebarred your alacrity or crit is increased for a certain amount of time... DPS there are a lot of possibilities tbh but I think these two are a start. If people want more then ask and I'll think of more examples.

 

Tactical Items - Tank: For a tank these would evolve around threat generation, taunt and guards imo. So for example if a tank lowers threat via a guard from a certain target in an ops or PvP they have increased shield or absorb rating for 20 seconds. Or when a tank taunts for 5 seconds they are immune to knockbacks or stuns based off the tactical items. Another idea could be that when a tank hits their phase walk they generate more threat (just for people that have this item).

 

Warning - MY IMPRESSION FROM THE ABOVE IS THAT PEOPLE WOULD NEED TO PICK BETWEEN A FEW TACTICAL ITEM OPTIONS FOR THEIR PLAYSTYLE/NEEDS AND WORK FROM THERE. A LOT OF THE CONCEPTS ABOVE EXIST IN GAME BUT NOT IN A WAY THAT YOU HAVE TO PICK BETWEEN A FEW.

 

Now in regards to set bonuses I would say that it should go back to PvE and PvP gear 100%. I think I liked the game almost 1000000000000000000000 x more with two gears (even tho I grind to grind both). So I am asking if Eric reads this that he thinks about making some different ones for PvP and for PvE. Also, it would be nice if we could have two equipped at the same time so that if we needed to switch between two we could do so with a click of a button. Kinda the way the outfit designer works now where you can have a few armor styles and click which one you want for when. So when you need to PvE just quickly equip it would be cool and for PVP a quick switch back would also be good.

 

For Set bonuses - We could have one that increases conquest points achieved form conquest content. You already mentioned the crafting one which is really good. I would add the PvP and PvE ones for each type of class with maybe 3 or four options per field. SO three for DPS, Three for Healers and three for tanks. Dps could have a choice between faster cast times on certain abilities, Increased damage on successful kills maybe (so kind of like a kill streak (for pve on bosses it could be increased damage per damage hit over like 20k). FOr healers could also do the cast time one but perhaps could try some funky ones like for every teammate in a raid below 50% health you have increased healing or in PvP for every teammate killed within 30 meters you have increased healing for like 20 seconds. For tanks, it is a tad more tricky on set bonuses imo to make them a bit different since the tanks playstyle is generally similar on certain raid bosses. What you could try is to allow tanks increased damage or threat (depending on the set chosen) although it may create a problem for pvp with scank tanks. Which imo then you should definitely have 2 sets of gear and make the gear that is good for pve not really work in pve (and vice versa so you kinda have separate pvp and pve gear).

 

THANK YOU ALL FOR READING AND IF ANYONE THAT IS READING FROM BIOWARE OR ERIC AND WANTS TO GET MORE IDEAS FROM ME (just because I only put a few down here so you can start with those but if you want even more detailed ones I would be happy to help come up with more and even more descriptive ones) PLEASE JUST CONTACT ME VIA IN-GAME MAIL ON THE DARTH MALGUS SERVER. PLAYER NAME UmHeySnip or UmChokeThere. Looking forward to any feedback on my ideas

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Please use this thread to brainstorm any ideas that you have around what general set bonuses and tactical items you would like to see in the game. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

-eric

 

I think you still don't understand two fundamental things when it comes to class balance.

 

1. Regular warzones, Ranked Arenas and PVE content needs different utilities and most importantly: set bonuses.

 

2. Each advanced class should be forced to choose 3 or 4 from the following features (and not give almost all of those like you do now to certain ranged classes):

(i) Ranged damage (instead of being melee by default)

(ii) Single Target Damage Boost

(iii) AOE/DOT damage Boost

(iv) Survavibility (damage mitigation)

(v) Self-heal

(vi) Mobility

(vii) Stealth

(viii) Team utilities (AOE slows, group heals, mass taunt, minor buffs, etc.)

 

 

So acutally your general idea of class tweeking is fundamentally wrong. The choices made should be always a leaf picked in a tree as it is done in GSF.

Edited by varietasplus
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Okay, I have a few wild ideas. Assuming these ideas are used at all, I'd assume that they would not be allowed in PvP or group content (such as FPs or ops).

 

First, a tactical item allowing dual-stances for companions. Paxton Rall can do his healing moves and dps moves at the same time? That would be rad!

 

Second, something similar to Satele Shan's "Battle Meditation" from the solo Revan fight on Yavin 4. It massively buffs Mastery and Endurance and resources. (If I remember correctly, my sorcerer went up to 800 Force from 600? Whereas my PT went up to 200 or 300 heat capacity. Etc.) Mastery and Endurance buffs would be kinda useless with level sync, so maybe just a straight buff to health and/or Power, Alacrity, and/or Crit?

 

This "Battle Meditation" could potentially be companion based too, that is, a companion has to be active and channeling Battle Meditation indefinitely (until you click it off) to do so. (Of course, if the companion isn't doing anything else, I'd hope his battle meditation includes healing.)

 

Thirdly, an even wilder idea. Something that lets you use a move from another class. I know that I would love to have Force Choke on my sorcerer. (Even more so if it hits 3 or more targets at once, but that's totally beyond the realm of plausibility, I'm sure, except as a warrior-specific tac item, I'm sure.)

 

Yeah, yeah, I know that last idea is totally crazy. I told you it was wild, and even if it was somehow accepted by the devs it would likely only be allowable in non-PvP, non-group content.

Edited by AlCiao
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a tactical item that lets the devs balance pve and pvp separately would be great.

 

i think your context is limiting... there may be some way to turn anyones auto attack into something, or if they try to use their recharge ability in a fight it turns into another ability or something.

 

other ideas:

reduce cd of set bonus

reduce cd of relics

make matrix shard relic useful

companion buff

aoe buff

turn some attack into execute ability with buffed damage (to make execute rotation more fun and more effective)

sustain centric on use

burst centric on use

cool abilities like those found in jedi academy (acrobatics and stuff)... remember tumult?

reflect ability

stealth ability... like the stealth belt from kotor

historic relics with cool abilities or effects

undead buff, rhak buff, planet buff, solo space buff etc.

anything that can change the rotation just a little bit and give more damage/heals

maybe something that opens up more conversation choices... everyone hits on you, everyone hates you etc.

fake dark side looks

fake plauge looks

elemental skins... fire ice lightning stone water etc.

synergy ones that if each member of your group has different ones they combine like voltron buff or something (captain planet idea from last idea)

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I want a "peace and quiet" tactical item that shuts up the ship droid.

 

Ok, I'm joking... sort of.

 

How about an item that changes stealth detection into stealth prevention? I'm thinking PvP here. I play almost all stealth classes, so I understand how super annoying this would be for me - but I'm also super annoyed that I can just once in a while stop that other guy/gal from escaping. Sure, I can guess which direction they are running and try an aoe or stealth scan, but I wouldn't mind a more reliable way to foil their plans.

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How about a Tactical Item that lets you use the rest & recharge ability of another class i.e. Seethe on a Sith Warrior.

 

I kinda like that idea, but it sounds like an emote, or similar to the other rest-n-recharge variations that the CM offers?

 

How about one that allows a limited rest-n-recharge while still in combat? As long as you are not actually hit or interrupted?

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I kinda like that idea, but it sounds like an emote, or similar to the other rest-n-recharge variations that the CM offers?

 

How about one that allows a limited rest-n-recharge while still in combat? As long as you are not actually hit or interrupted?

 

Emotes don't regen your health & resource pool and none of the rest-n-recharge toys on the CM or anywhere else in the game allow you to use the rest-n-recharge ability of another class. I'm suggesting a Tactical Item or 8 of them one for each class that you could slot on another class and it would transform the rest-n-recharge ability to match the Tactical Item.

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Regarding tactical items. Before I can give constructive feed back, I need to know a little more info than you’ve provided.

Can you elaborate a little more on how they will be set up up on your gear. Ie, how many tactical items can we equip?

 

Currently the set bonuses usually affect a number of “specific” abilities. So I am assuming we will be able to equip enough tactical items to cover the same number of abilities that are currently covered under the set bonuses.

 

Also, will this be like an “inscription” or “augment” type slot that you put the tactical item into your gear. If so, will this slot be standard on all gear or will we have to buy, add, craft it to place into the gear.

 

How will we get the tactical item? Is it something we buy, earn or craft? Do we need to be a certain lvl to use them? ie are they only usable at lvl 75 or can we start changing things earlier as we lvl (like adding augment kits).

 

Here are some of the questions I think need to be answered before we can give proper feed back.

 

1. How many tactical items can be used at once.

 

2. Will we get enough tactical items to make up for the loss of our current set bonus systems.

 

3. How will the tactical items be equiped

 

4. How will they be obtained and how quickly will they be obtained

 

5. Will they be usable before lvl 75 (like augment kits)

 

6. Are they locked like Augments and require a cost to remove or add them

 

7. Will they be locked in like utility points.

 

8. Will swapping one gear item change a talent point or do we need to swap multiple items.

 

9. Do we have to make a choice of A. or B. or C. tactical item, per set?

(ie say we can have 3 tactical items, but you can’t have A and B and C in the same set. You can only have A or B or C in the set. Then you have to choose from D or E or F for the second tactical item).

There are probably other questions we need answered too, but I can’t think of any.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Similar to the chain lightning example already posted, I'd like a tactical that would change aoe abilities into single target abilities.

 

Ex. Force Storm would turn into something like the focused storm Thanaton uses against the SI in the final confrontation.

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So according to what I'm reading here, I'm assuming non-class specific Tactical Items alter the function of any "general" abilities, which also includes non-combat abilities. Given the way Discipline-specific abilities seem to be bestowed and removed, and the existence of Temporary Abilities, I'm also assuming it will be reasonably plausible to design specific Tactical Items which bestow entirely new abilities while equipped, and remove those specific abilities when unequipped. While this alternative approach is probably not ideal for actual Advanced Class/Disciple abilities, I can see this being a great deal more viable when designing Tactical Items for "general" abilities.

 

With all that in mind, here's a list of possible Tactical Item effects I thought up:

 

  • Area-of-Effect Harvesting (Ability Modification): When harvesting a resource, simultaneously harvest any other resource nodes also within range of the player. This may not be as useful when harvesting standard resource nodes, but for Bioanalysis and Scavenging? After clearing a large group of biological or mechanical mobs, this could save a decent bit of time.
  • Area-of-Effect "Flurry" (Ability Modification): When using the standard "Flurry" ability each class possesses, damage is now split between up to three targets in a small radius centered around the selected target, with the base damage of the ability lowered to compensate. Damage is still split across several attacks. This effect is also overwritten by any Utilities which directly alter the "Flurry" ability (such as the one available to the Jedi Sage/Sith Sorcerer Advanced Class).
  • Single-hit "Flurry" (Ability Modification): When using the standard "Flurry" ability each class possesses, damage is now dealt by a single attack instead of several, with an animation change to reflect this. This effect is also overwritten by any Utilities which directly alter the "Flurry" ability (such as the one available to the Jedi Sage/Sith Sorcerer Advanced Class).
  • Area-of-Effect Recuperate (Ability Modification): When using any rest and recharge ability, whether class-specific or originating from the Cartel Market, everyone within a small radius is also affected.
  • Shared Travel (Ability Modification): When using the standard travel ability while on a planet, anyone who is within a specific radius and in the same group receives an option to travel with them without incurring a cooldown.
  • Player Revive Cooldown Reduction (Ability Modification): Lowers the player reviving ability cooldown by a certain percentage. This naturally does not benefit any Advanced Class with a passive ability eliminating said cooldown.

 

As for Set Bonuses, here are some ideas:

 

  • Crafting Mastery: Slightly increases critical chance or decreases time required to craft items for a specified profession, of a specific tier (ie. 1-50, 51-100, 101-150...).
  • Mission Mastery: Slightly increases critical chance or decreases time required for missions of a specified profession, of a specific tier (ie. 1-50, 51-100, 101-150...).
  • Gathering Mastery: Slightly increases critical chance or decreases time required for gathering skills of a specified profession, of a specific tier (ie. 1-50, 51-100, 101-150...). This only comes into effect for the "mission" style gathering, not when harvesting resource nodes.
  • Minor Experience Bonus: Provides a minor bonus for any experience gained from a particular source, using similar mechanics as Legacy bonuses.
  • Warzone Damage Bonus: Provides a percentage bonus to all damage done to other players inside of a Warzone or Arena, but decreases healing done to other players by a percentage equal to half of the damage bonus.
  • Warzone Defense Bonus: Provides a percentage reduction to all damage received from other players inside of a Warzone or Arena, but decreases damage done to other players by a percentage equal to half of the damage bonus.
  • Warzone Healing Bonus: Provides a percentage bonus to all healing done to other players inside of a Warzone or Arena, but increases damage received from other players by a percentage equal to half of the healing bonus.

 

I may think of others later, but I do see some good potential when it comes to Tactical Items and "general" Set Bonuses.

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