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Luke (post-GrandMaster) vs Revan (post-KotOR)


LordFailstrom

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I'm sure this has been brought up before...but I've not seen it so I'm making on myself to get some other opinons

 

To start with:

 

Revan was presumably trained from young childhood and has been through his share of all out Jedi- and Sith-style wars, had some insanely bad mofo moments, had the full Sith experience (took apprentice, betrayed by apprentice, killed apprentice) and so on and so forth

 

Luke has the full legacy of force power from his father and also has had a few bad mofo moments, experienced war more from a non force-user perspective as well as among other force users, and was betrayed by his own apprentices a couple times.

 

Both have touched both light and dark sides, both have been idolized as legendary leaders, both have redefined what it means to be a Jedi, both have learned from ancient secrets, both have encountered/fought evils older than themselves, both have seen enough crap to make any mere mortal cower in insanity and fear.

 

So let's make them do the timewarp and end up on an isolated planet...Would they work together or fight and if fighting, who would win?

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If Revan isn't on one of his craizer days, he'll be very smart and work with the Grand Master, otherwise he loses instantly, as he is frozen in place, just as Master Skywalker did to Darth Caedus who is waaaaay above Revan on the power scale.
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Yeah.. if Revan is mentally stable he would work with Luke at all costs if he doesn't want to be decimated. Luke is the Superman of Star Wars at this point isnt he? Well, that could be changed I guess.. Edited by Airmo
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GrandMaster Luke > Pretty much any Sith/Jedi, except for Palpatine. But then...this is post-Kotor Revan, if you don't go all the way to where he went to go fight the Emperor...then he would probably be stable and not be stupid to pick a fight. However...if you go far, to the point where he is unstable then ya he is gonna die...very quickly. Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Grandmaster Luke would spend a considerable amount of time trying to "save" revan. B4 it came to a fight. But if it was a fight, my money's on Luke. I don't think ole Palpatine could have stood against the Grandmaster.

 

He did, Palpatine's only equal is Luke. Of course unless you mean Old Palps.

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See, I've always felt that Palpatine wasn't any greater than Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd or Tulak Hord or whoever else of the "great" ancient sith lords...and Revan was better than many of those...call me a fanboy of the original KotOR if you wish, but Revan seemed to be the best of the best for the time period and it seems that force users were generally far more powerful in Old Republic era than in New Republic era...

 

then again, didn't Luke rip a Star Destroyer out of the sky or something like that? I suppose that would put you up a bit on the rankings...

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See, I've always felt that Palpatine wasn't any greater than Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd or Tulak Hord or whoever else of the "great" ancient sith lords

 

Darth Sidious is, and always will be, the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist.

 

...and Revan was better than many of those...call me a fanboy of the original KotOR if you wish, but Revan seemed to be the best of the best

 

Not really. He's up there in that time period, but other Force users during that time period (Great Sith War-post KOTOR) are superior.

 

for the time period and it seems that force users were generally far more powerful in Old Republic era than in New Republic era...

 

Incorrect.

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See, I've always felt that Palpatine wasn't any greater than Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd or Tulak Hord or whoever else of the "great" ancient sith lords...and Revan was better than many of those...call me a fanboy of the original KotOR if you wish, but Revan seemed to be the best of the best for the time period and it seems that force users were generally far more powerful in Old Republic era than in New Republic era...

 

then again, didn't Luke rip a Star Destroyer out of the sky or something like that? I suppose that would put you up a bit on the rankings...

 

Palpatine was greater then any before him, multiple sources state that he is the greatest Sith Lord to ever live(also having the feats to back it). Revan was one of the best of his time period, not THE best and he is still outclassed though by the likes of Luke and Sidious and others.

 

No Luke hasn't, but with his power there is no doubt that he could. But here is a list of things that he has done...

 

- Rooted himself with the force, so strong that he became an inmoveable object that not even the Black Hole at the center of the galaxy could move him.

 

- Been noted to seem to be wielding 10 or 20 lightsabers.

 

- Absorbing shots from an AT-AT and then knocking it down with a Force Push.

 

- Rebuilt Vader's fortress on Courscant and then destroy it.

 

- He froze everything during a food fight, every morsel, drop and item as if it was all trapped in time.

 

- He merged with The Force to such a degree, that he wasn't even there physically or as an individual personality, and nothing could stand in his wake.

 

I can post more and with detail, but this seems good enough.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Let's come back to this debate after Episode VII has come out, hopefully erasing all the disgusting drivel of the early EU that elevated Luke and Palpatine to the status of demi-gods. It's outrageous and even Lucas hates it. Once the likes of Dark Empire have been overwritten, some reason will be restored to that era.

 

I've never cottoned on to the absurdities of Palpatine's cloning and invincible levels of power. He was not introduced this way, and a great deal of the post-RotJ EU is laughably written.

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Let's come back to this debate after Episode VII has come out, hopefully erasing all the disgusting drivel of the early EU that elevated Luke and Palpatine to the status of demi-gods. It's outrageous and even Lucas hates it. Once the likes of Dark Empire have been overwritten, some reason will be restored to that era.

 

I've never cottoned on to the absurdities of Palpatine's cloning and invincible levels of power. He was not introduced this way, and a great deal of the post-RotJ EU is laughably written.

 

Where has Lucas said he hates it? All I recall him saying, is that he doesn't keep up with it. Though I don't see, why you think its so ridiculous for Force Users to have such degrees of power...even when its only 2, and even its stated that The Force is pretty much all powerful by the 1st movie shown.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Let's come back to this debate after Episode VII has come out, hopefully erasing all the disgusting drivel of the early EU that elevated Luke and Palpatine to the status of demi-gods. It's outrageous and even Lucas hates it. Once the likes of Dark Empire have been overwritten, some reason will be restored to that era.

 

I've never cottoned on to the absurdities of Palpatine's cloning and invincible levels of power. He was not introduced this way, and a great deal of the post-RotJ EU is laughably written.

Well regardless Palpatine will remain the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived, if he can wield force storms or not.

 

But I agree with you, reading the abilities that some people have posted her just makes me cringe. Wielding 20 lightsabers at a time? Turning into an invisble demi-god? Batting down AT-ATs? Yeah the Force is powerful, but making characters overpowered makes them boring and frankly, a joke.

 

But yeah, Revan would have his butt handed to him by Luke. As would anyone going against the post-ROTJ juggernauts /sigh

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Well regardless Palpatine will remain the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived, if he can wield force storms or not.

 

But I agree with you, reading the abilities that some people have posted her just makes me cringe. Wielding 20 lightsabers at a time? Turning into an invisble demi-god? Batting down AT-ATs? Yeah the Force is powerful, but making characters overpowered makes them boring and frankly, a joke.

 

But yeah, Revan would have his butt handed to him by Luke. As would anyone going against the post-ROTJ juggernauts /sigh

 

Note: Appearing to wield 10 to 20 sabers, not actually wielding that many. :p Think of afterimages....I still don't see what is the problem though, it is only 2 characters out of all the others that can do this sort of stuff. It isn't like everyone post-ROTJ could.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Darth Sidious is, and always will be, the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist.

 

 

 

Not really. He's up there in that time period, but other Force users during that time period (Great Sith War-post KOTOR) are superior.

 

 

 

Incorrect.

 

As one of the Ewoks said in RotJ, when C-3PO spoke...This guy's wise. Yub yub. :D

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Note: Appearing to wield 10 to 20 sabers, not actually wielding that many. :p Think of afterimages....I still don't see what is the problem though, it is only 2 characters out of all the others that can do this sort of stuff, using something that was described as more powerful then destroying a planet in the 1st movie(as in ANH).

 

The whole "appearing to wield 20 sabers" bit is just from the perspective of another character. This would be true in any fast-faced, Force-fueled duel.

 

My point is that in the earlier days of the EU the authors went overboard and it just became patently ridiculous. And George is on record as saying that he feels that Palpatine was never cloned, Luke never married, etc. So it's reasonable to expect a serious reworking of this era of the EU in Episode VII, bringing things back into perspective with the rest of the Star Wars universe.

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The whole "appearing to wield 20 sabers" bit is just from the perspective of another character. This would be true in any fast-faced, Force-fueled duel.

 

My point is that in the earlier days of the EU the authors went overboard and it just became patently ridiculous. And George is on record as saying that he feels that Palpatine was never cloned, Luke never married, etc. So it's reasonable to expect a serious reworking of this era of the EU in Episode VII, bringing things back into perspective with the rest of the Star Wars universe.

 

While right to him it ended with ROTJ, everything post is just in a separate universe however still is tied with the movies in some form or another. It just isn't seen by George as G-canon, so hence we have C, T, S and so on so forth canon...at least it isn't like Star Trek where everything was all over the place(unless that has changed.)

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Note: Appearing to wield 10 to 20 sabers, not actually wielding that many. :p Think of afterimages....I still don't see what is the problem though, it is only 2 characters out of all the others that can do this sort of stuff. It isn't like everyone post-ROTJ could.
Does it matter, the fact is, IMO, overpowering characters ruins those characters. So if you take 2 of the most important characters in Star Wars and overpower them, then suckiness ensues. Especially if half the post-ROTJ revolves around a conflict between these two. E.g. Luke is flying about, minding his own business and them BAM! Sidious teleports him by summoning a massive Force storm of darkside energy ripping a hyperspace wormhole in space, because that's how Star Wars works these days...
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While right to him it ended with ROTJ, everything post is just in a separate universe however still is tied with the movies in some form or another. It just isn't seen by George as G-canon, so hence we have C, T, S and so on so forth canon...at least it isn't like Star Trek where everything was all over the place(unless that has changed.)
Sure its not all over the place, but its completely out of touch with Star Wars in too many ways to count. And I don't think Lucas will have any qualms over changing it. And I won't shed a tear if he does.
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Does it matter, the fact is, IMO, overpowering characters ruins those characters. So if you take 2 of the most important characters in Star Wars and overpower them, then suckiness ensues. Especially if half the post-ROTJ revolves around a conflict between these two. E.g. Luke is flying about, minding his own business and them BAM! Sidious teleports him by summoning a massive Force storm of darkside energy ripping a hyperspace wormhole in space, because that's how Star Wars works these days...

 

I'm still just not seeing it....I guess other comic characters have shown far bigger stuff, to the point comparing these two just makes it seem ok. There would be a point, if at some point The Force was shown a limit somewhere...but there has been no limit shown with what one could do using The Force.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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The whole "appearing to wield 20 sabers" bit is just from the perspective of another character. This would be true in any fast-faced, Force-fueled duel.

 

My point is that in the earlier days of the EU the authors went overboard and it just became patently ridiculous. And George is on record as saying that he feels that Palpatine was never cloned, Luke never married, etc. So it's reasonable to expect a serious reworking of this era of the EU in Episode VII, bringing things back into perspective with the rest of the Star Wars universe.

 

Don't expect Disney to reowrk the EU. If any of it is retconned/erased, those decisions will be made by the people at Lucas Arts. Some things do need to be erased. The cloned Emperor I won't miss. Luke will remain married to Mara Jade, however. George may not have liked it, but he did allow it. We will see some continuity clean up and some changes. Most of the EU will remain intact, though. I personally hope Death Troopers and the Crystal Star novels are wiped out. Both stories sucked big time.

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I'm still just not seeing it....I guess other comic characters have shown far bigger stuff, to the point comparing these two just makes it seem ok. There would be a point, if at some point The Force was shown a limit somewhere...but there has been no limit shown with what one could do using The Force.
Sure the Force is limitless. But the wielders do have limits. And for the sake of good story, and maintaining the essence of Star Wars, abilities should have limits.
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Sure the Force is limitless. But the wielders do have limits. And for the sake of good story, and maintaining the essence of Star Wars, abilities should have limits.

 

Your right, there are limits for users being that if they aren't good enough it can destroy them. At least there are explanations, that Luke/Sidious worked and studied/trained their asses off to get to their level of power. At least they didn't just wake up one day, and magically command all this ridiculous power, unlike some other comic characters..

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Your right, there are limits for users being that if they aren't good enough it can destroy them. At least there are explanations, that Luke/Sidious worked and studied/trained their asses off to get to their level of power. At least they didn't just wake up one day, and magically command all this ridiculous power, unlike some other comic characters..

 

The whole Charles-Atlas superpower thing still doesn't match up. Star Wars isn't Marvel Comics or Dragonball Z, we don't want to see that kind of absurd power being wielded by one character because "they trained in the ancient magical temple of so-and-so for a year and spent their life perfecting the techniques of whatcha-ma-callit"

 

So while the EU will probably be reworked, I'm not expected a clean slate, that would suck. But consolidation and story revisions to balance everything out would be not only welcome, but needed for the different Eras of the the Star Wars universe to mesh together and feel like they're part of the same continuity.

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Most of the EU will remain intact, though.
Well you can't be sure of that, for all you know they might erase it entirely. Just because George Lucas accepted something doesn't mean he won't let it get retconned. The fact that Lucas has said he cares little for post-ROTJ and Disney have declared the sequels an 'original trilogy' suggest some serious bulldozing is on its way.
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Sure the Force is limitless. But the wielders do have limits. And for the sake of good story, and maintaining the essence of Star Wars, abilities should have limits.

 

Exactly. This is why I prefer Heir to the Empire above all other Bantam novels, and then all Del Rey novels above the Bantam novels (on par with HTTE). Sure, in FOTJ Luke and co. are powerful (Ben, at full power, unleashed a blast that was described as rocking a frigate's orbit), but they're not overpowered, like the Emperor was in DE. For that matter, like Luke was in some of those older books. The Del Rey novelists have a much better concept of how far is too far.

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