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In 2.0 diminishing returns on Crit after 20% but smash still autocrits


NathanielStarr

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So I was on the PTS today and critical chance really drops off after 20% now. I think it's fine, BUT smash still autocrits. I know a couple of other classes have some autocrit abilities, but nothing nearly as damaging as smash.

 

What do you think about this? I know smash got a small nerf in damage, but still most smashers have around 82% surge or more.

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Well considering that in a warzone there's only two classes I ever see on the opposite teams...

 

marauder/sentinel or sage/sorcerer

 

I think it speaks for itself. I guess that's the only two classes that we should or can PVP with.

 

Well on the server I play on many marauders keep pet healing operatives so they might still be useful.

 

Is PvP though actually thought of as the domain of Jedi by the developers? I hope not.

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Well considering that in a warzone there's only two classes I ever see on the opposite teams...

 

marauder/sentinel or sage/sorcerer

 

I think it speaks for itself. I guess that's the only two classes that we should or can PVP with.

 

You mean to tell me the majority of players in a STAR WARS game are force user classes? *shocking*

 

Even before all the "OP" specs came about the majority of the population were playing force user classes. You should of expected that in a game called STAR WARS.

Edited by Raansu
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You mean to tell me the majority of players in a STAR WARS game are force user classes? *shocking*

 

Even before all the "OP" specs came about the majority of the population were playing force user classes. You should of expected that in a game called STAR WARS.

 

No, you clearly didn't get what I was hinting at.

 

I'm trying to explain that while people will pick the cheapest, most easy class to play that requires very little player imput to pump out massive damage. Doesn't matter the game, they always do this. But there is some basis to your claim, but you don't see hardly any snipers, gunslingers, etc. It's because those classes are indeed more complicated to play. And that's the problem. People want the easy hit and smash classes (pun intended).

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Even before all the "OP" specs came about the majority of the population were playing force user classes. You should of expected that in a game called STAR WARS.

 

Actually most of them didn't start out as force user classes. Initially there were a ton of Bounty Hunters and stealth Operatives. But very rapidly, especially after 1.2, those classes died out. Players surged into PT and Mara. With 1.6 all the old Sorcs came out of hiding as well. And with 2.0 you can bet on it being all Jugg, Mara, Inquisitor and some remaining Operative healers. Players migrate to the best classes. It's what they do.

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No, you clearly didn't get what I was hinting at.

 

I'm trying to explain that while people will pick the cheapest, most easy class to play that requires very little player imput to pump out massive damage. Doesn't matter the game, they always do this. But there is some basis to your claim, but you don't see hardly any snipers, gunslingers, etc. It's because those classes are indeed more complicated to play. And that's the problem. People want the easy hit and smash classes (pun intended).

 

There is nothing complicated about playing a sniper...There is nothing complicated about ANY of the classes. I'd say you don't see very many snipers because the class itself is extremely boring, especially if you play marksmen. Your rotation is literally 1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3. It's so braindead and it will be even more brain dead in 2.0.

 

Actually most of them didn't start out as force user classes. Initially there were a ton of Bounty Hunters and stealth Operatives. But very rapidly, especially after 1.2, those classes died out. Players surged into PT and Mara. With 1.6 all the old Sorcs came out of hiding as well. And with 2.0 you can bet on it being all Jugg, Mara, Inquisitor and some remaining Operative healers. Players migrate to the best classes. It's what they do.

 

Really, cuz I have a very clear memory of practically every warzone being completely full of nothing but sorcerers and sages with a few knights/bounty hunters here and there. The majority of the time I'd load into the warzone and I was pretty much the only sentinel in the warzone.

 

It's a star wars game, most of the populace is going to be force users, regardless of how strong or weak they are. Get over it.

Edited by Raansu
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I do think if another non-force using class was the best, players would play it. MMO players are notorious for picking the path of least resistance. Besides characters like Han Solo/Boba Fett are as popular as Luke and Vader really.

 

Aside from bubble stun, sorc is a pretty weak class and there is still more of them out there than most other classes. So your theory is incorrect. Snipers are pretty much face roll and will be even more face roll in 2.0 and PT pyro's will burn you down faster than any smasher would and yet those classes are still outnumbered by force users, so again, your theory goes out the window. Simple fact here people, it's star wars, no matter what happens, the majority of classes you are going to see WILL be holding a lightsaber.

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Aside from bubble stun, sorc is a pretty weak class and there is still more of them out there than most other classes. So your theory is incorrect. Snipers are pretty much face roll and will be even more face roll in 2.0 and PT pyro's will burn you down faster than any smasher would and yet those classes are still outnumbered by force users, so again, your theory goes out the window. Simple fact here people, it's star wars, no matter what happens, the majority of classes you are going to see WILL be holding a lightsaber.
This, sorc has always been popular because of lore and abilties. It's the reason to why 75 % (I'm making up my own stats as I go) were playing sorc at launch. This was back when sorcs actually were good but unlike the fotmers of today the sorcs back then werent actually fotmers, they were simply playing their favorite class and it happened to be ok at the time. I guess bE-Aware got fed up with having 12 sorcs in every warzone so they decided to nerf the procs and bring down sorcs to what they believed was a reasonable level. Now it wasnt that good anymore and the true fotmers, who has been hiding in the sorc population up until now, decided to play other AC'es. A lot of peopl left the game, seemingly in protest for what they had done to their fav AC, but a lot of people also decided to hang in there . ....there was always healing.

 

Sorc is kind of like the sniper role in shooters. It's something a lot of people will play despite that it's not always the best choice.

Edited by MidichIorian
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There is nothing complicated about playing a sniper...There is nothing complicated about ANY of the classes. I'd say you don't see very many snipers because the class itself is extremely boring, especially if you play marksmen. Your rotation is literally 1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3. It's so braindead and it will be even more brain dead in 2.0.

 

f1,x,5,5,6,y,2,1,1 - that is my rotation for my sniper. He is level 15.

Edited by criminalheretic
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So I was on the PTS today and critical chance really drops off after 20% now. I think it's fine, BUT smash still autocrits. I know a couple of other classes have some autocrit abilities, but nothing nearly as damaging as smash.

 

What do you think about this? I know smash got a small nerf in damage, but still most smashers have around 82% surge or more.

 

Do more research on other classes, all of them have abilities that autocrit in some way. Posts like this only show that you dont research enough into other classes and can make you look ignorant.

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Do more research on other classes, all of them have abilities that autocrit in some way. Posts like this only show that you dont research enough into other classes and can make you look ignorant.

 

you should do some more research because not all DPS specs have a autocrit. some DPS specs dont even have any passive skills that boost their base critrate.

 

critrate DR change affects some DPS specs far more than other DPS specs.

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There is nothing complicated about playing a sniper...There is nothing complicated about ANY of the classes. I'd say you don't see very many snipers because the class itself is extremely boring, especially if you play marksmen. Your rotation is literally 1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3 1,2,3. It's so braindead and it will be even more brain dead in 2.0.

 

Interesting. Please, tell me more on how much experience you have playing a sniper.

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Either crit needs to be brought up back to 30% or autocrit abilities (all of them need to go). That being said a Advanced Prototype autocrit for 4k every 15 seconds is not comparable to a 9k (i see that being the biggest hit on the pts all the time) AOE smash. Besides again smash is an autocrit+has a surge bonus while an autocrit railshot from tactics does not have a surge bonus, nor does the autocrit shocck from the assasins tank tree, and again they are not aoe.

 

30% crit is viable, 20% crit forces everyone to stack power because crit is useless anyway and heavily favors autocrit specs like smash.

And finally I believe that hybrids like a pyro-ap hybrid with a guardanteed crit railshot with the surge bonus to raishot (hybrid doable on pts) should also not be allowed, simply move the talents highier in the trees.

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Do more research on other classes, all of them have abilities that autocrit in some way. Posts like this only show that you dont research enough into other classes and can make you look ignorant.

 

Do some research in the dictionary and find out what the word all means because not all classes have an autocrit attack. Besides I said that some others do have autocrit in my original post and those that do have autocrits besides smashers are no where near as damaging.

Edited by NathanielStarr
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So I was on the PTS today and critical chance really drops off after 20% now. I think it's fine, BUT smash still autocrits. I know a couple of other classes have some autocrit abilities, but nothing nearly as damaging as smash.

 

What do you think about this? I know smash got a small nerf in damage, but still most smashers have around 82% surge or more.

 

Oh, Warriors still not have a 4sec stun!! :eek:

If you're not a smasher you have a 4sec stun to counter, so...

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Do more research on other classes, all of them have abilities that autocrit in some way. Posts like this only show that you dont research enough into other classes and can make you look ignorant.

 

Shadow - In tank spec (stance restricted) you have a 30% chance to proc an Autocrit on your next project. If you use it with force potency you do an extra 50% damage. Even with all that you aren't getting 5900-6500 on geared players from it on live, or 7k+ on the PTS, and on live the force cost to do this is extreme. Can increase Force Critical Rate by 60% once every 90 seconds via Force Potency which grants 2 charges. Using Telekinetic Throw consumes a charge regardless but otherwise if a force ability doesn't crit it won't consume a charge. Force Criticals can be talented to grant 9% melee crit rate for 10 seconds.

 

Vanguard - In tactics tree Gut and Stockstrike have a 25% chance to make your next HiB autocrit. Hits in the lower 5ks and upper 4ks to geared players on live. On live HiB has a cooldown of 15s. On the PTS you can get this talent and Ionic Accelerator to get it every 6 seconds, but this will most likely be nerfed before it hits live. Note that VG/PT is already considered perhaps the best single target PVP DPS in the game. On PTS the hybrid is parsing 2900+ on the level 55 dummy. Battle Focus increases ranged and tech critical chance by 25% for 15 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.

 

Gunslinger - Gets a level 10 ability to make the next charged burst autocrit. 1 minute cooldown. No other autocrits. Gets minor crit chance buffs (4%) to trick shot, speed shot, and charged bursts in Sharpshooter spec. Can increase the crit chance of DoTs in Dirty Fighting spec by 12%. Also gets a tier 1 talent in DF to increase all ranged and tech crit chance by 3%.

 

Sentinel - Zen in Watchman Spec makes your next 6 DoTs autocrit. In Combat spec (on live) an ataru form proc (guaranteed with Blade Rush) makes your next Blade Storm an autocrit on live (6 second proc duration). This ability hits like a truck. On live does low 5000s. On the PTS this has been nerfed slightly and the autocrit essentially has a 30% chance to proc off of an Ataru Form proc, and I think the buff lasts longer than 6 seconds but not sure. Obviously Focus has the autocrit attached to smash from force leap or zealous leap. Lasts 20 seconds. Smash regularly hits high 5000s to low 6000s on geared players in live. Is hitting over 7k on the PTS. Can also increase force critical chance by 6% in tier 1 of Focus.

 

Guardian - No Autocrits outside of Focus on live or PTS. In vigilance you can increase crit chance on Blade Storm and Dispatch by 60% with Plasma Brand and Overhead Slash. On the PTS I think this is now 50%? Weird nerf but whatever. Can increase Force Critical chance by 6% in tier 1 of smash.

 

Scoundrel - No Autocrits. Can increase ranged and tech crit chance by 3% in Dirty Fighting tree, and can increase crit chance of DoTs by 12%.

 

Sage- In the Telekinetic Tree, Turbulence autocrits on targets affected by weaken mind. 9s cooldown. Tree not generally used in PVP due to reliance on crits. Can increase crit chance of disturbance and telekinetic throw by 6% in Balance tree tier 2. Also gets force potency which gives 2 charges of 60% increase force crit rate. TK throw or critting with a force ability consumes a charge.

 

Commando - No Autocrits. Can increase ranged and tech crit by 3% in tier 1 of the Combat Medic tree. Can spec into an extra 3% Tech Crit chance for Assault Spec via special munitions (changing to 6% ranged crit chance in 2.0) and 3% Tech Crit chance high in the assault tree.

 

 

So of the 8 ACs, 6 have some form of autocrit in one of their trees. Of those 6, Gunslinger's Autocrit is on a 1 minute cooldown and attached to a lackluster ability. VG and Shadow are procs in a seldom used PVP tree and in a tanking tree respectively. Sage autocrit is in top tier of Telekinetic tree which is contraindicated in PVP. Guardian and Sentinel's most potent autocrit is in the shared Focus tree. I'd say half of the ACs have meaningful autocrits.

 

 

EDIT: Missed Telekinetic Tree autocrit in top tier ability. Last paragraph changed to reflect this.

Edited by ArchangelLBC
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So I was on the PTS today and critical chance really drops off after 20% now. I think it's fine, BUT smash still autocrits. I know a couple of other classes have some autocrit abilities, but nothing nearly as damaging as smash.

 

What do you think about this? I know smash got a small nerf in damage, but still most smashers have around 82% surge or more.

 

for starters, you cannot have 82% surge

 

however, the nerf to crit has had a very negative effect on PvP. its also made tank + healer duos unkillable.

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Shadow - In tank spec (stance restricted) you have a 30% chance to proc an Autocrit on your next project. If you use it with force potency you do an extra 50% damage. Even with all that you aren't getting 5900-6500 on geared players from it on live, or 7k+ on the PTS, and on live the force cost to do this is extreme. Can increase Force Critical Rate by 60% once every 90 seconds via Force Potency which grants 2 charges. Using Telekinetic Throw consumes a charge regardless but otherwise if a force ability doesn't crit it won't consume a charge. Force Criticals can be talented to grant 9% melee crit rate for 10 seconds.

 

Vanguard - In tactics tree Gut and Stockstrike have a 25% chance to make your next HiB autocrit. Hits in the lower 5ks and upper 4ks to geared players on live. On live HiB has a cooldown of 15s. On the PTS you can get this talent and Ionic Accelerator to get it every 6 seconds, but this will most likely be nerfed before it hits live. Note that VG/PT is already considered perhaps the best single target PVP DPS in the game. On PTS the hybrid is parsing 2900+ on the level 55 dummy. Battle Focus increases ranged and tech critical chance by 25% for 15 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.

 

Gunslinger - Gets a level 10 ability to make the next charged burst autocrit. 1 minute cooldown. No other autocrits. Gets minor crit chance buffs (4%) to trick shot, speed shot, and charged bursts in Sharpshooter spec. Can increase the crit chance of DoTs in Dirty Fighting spec by 12%. Also gets a tier 1 talent in DF to increase all ranged and tech crit chance by 3%.

 

Sentinel - Zen in Watchman Spec makes your next 6 DoTs autocrit. In Combat spec (on live) an ataru form proc (guaranteed with Blade Rush) makes your next Blade Storm an autocrit on live (6 second proc duration). This ability hits like a truck. On live does low 5000s. On the PTS this has been nerfed slightly and the autocrit essentially has a 30% chance to proc off of an Ataru Form proc, and I think the buff lasts longer than 6 seconds but not sure. Obviously Focus has the autocrit attached to smash from force leap or zealous leap. Lasts 20 seconds. Smash regularly hits high 5000s to low 6000s on geared players in live. Is hitting over 7k on the PTS. Can also increase force critical chance by 6% in tier 1 of Focus.

 

Guardian - No Autocrits outside of Focus on live or PTS. In vigilance you can increase crit chance on Blade Storm and Dispatch by 60% with Plasma Brand and Overhead Slash. On the PTS I think this is now 50%? Weird nerf but whatever. Can increase Force Critical chance by 6% in tier 1 of smash.

 

Scoundrel - No Autocrits. Can increase ranged and tech crit chance by 3% in Dirty Fighting tree, and can increase crit chance of DoTs by 12%.

 

Sage- No Autocrits. Can increase crit chance of disturbance and telekinetic throw by 6% in Balance tree tier 2. Also gets force potency which gives 2 charges of 60% increase force crit rate. TK throw or critting with a force ability consumes a charge.

 

Commando - No Autocrits. Can increase ranged and tech crit by 3% in tier 1 of the Combat Medic tree. Can spec into an extra 3% Tech Crit chance for Assault Spec via special munitions (changing to 6% ranged crit chance in 2.0) and 3% Tech Crit chance high in the assault tree.

 

 

So of the 8 ACs, 5 have some form of autocrit in one of their trees. Of those 5, Gunslinger's Autocrit is on a 1 minute cooldown and attached to a lackluster ability. VG and Shadow are procs in a seldom used PVP tree and in a tanking tree respectively. Guardian and Sentinel's most potent autocrit is in the shared Focus tree. I'd say half of the ACs have meaningful autocrits.

 

Dude ... Sage and no autocrit?. read tooltip for Turbulence and then post ...

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