It would be nice to fix the bucketloads of outstanding bugs, some of which have been around since 1.4 or earlier, before releasing new content which creates even more bugs. Besides the many known issues, there are many that you either have not acknowledged or are unaware of:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5728690#post5728690

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=583611

hay.

The developers doing the new content are not the ones fixing bugs. So Bioware can do both things at the same time.

Fixing bugs is rarely as easy as we like to think, seeing it only from the outside. So it always takes more time than we, or the developers, hope.

Biowares utterly insane design decision never cease to amaze me. No wonder this game has crashed & burnt loosing 1+ million subscribers in a year.

 

Which sane MMO would force a PvE player into a PvP zone for a story quest? Bioware thats who.

 

& dont get me started on gating HK behind doing a HM Flashpoint. Way to go killing your game Bioware!

 

Lets deny the majority of MMO players nowadays (casual PvE'ers) from getting the a beloved companion from the Kotor games!

 

Lunacy. Utter fin lunacy.

Not lunacy really. We just have to realise that PvE servers aren't. PvE that is.

Bioware wanted to make a game about the (luke warm) war between Republic and Empire. The game always was about PvP. They just did not want to force everbody into open world PvP all the time (because experience taught game developers that only a tiny fraction of the potential player base likes that kind of gameplay).

PvE really means "Pvp Eventually"

Pretty much sums up the whole argument. If you want PvP, chose a PvP server.

 

So if someone wants to PVP they should roll on a PVP server? Glad you're not in charge of this game.

Guess I am glad you are not in charge either.

It does, however, seem more logical to me that if you have PvE and PvP servers than players who prefer PvE go to those servers and players who like PvP go there. Not the other way around. And that the default modus operandi on PvE servers is no-PvP while the default modus operandi on PvP servers is open world PvP.

Otherwise, why have two different types of servers at all?

Not lunacy really. We just have to realise that PvE servers aren't. PvE that is.

Bioware wanted to make a game about the (luke warm) war between Republic and Empire. The game always was about PvP. They just did not want to force everbody into open world PvP all the time (because experience taught game developers that only a tiny fraction of the potential player base likes that kind of gameplay).

PvE really means "Pvp Eventually"

That....I... what?

This ain't EVE this is supposed to be about a story and choose your adventure and blah, blah, blah. It is not and has never been about the PvP because otherwise all the money they spend on VO was even more wasted than it already is.

As far as PvE means anything for PvP it means "opt in" PvP putting PvE only content in PvP areas negates that very deliberate design decision in favour of allowing ganking. In fact the only people this benefits are the gankers - it annoys the PvE people who just want the story content and it doesn't benefit decent PvP players because there is no reward or challenge in completing the task.

Guess I am glad you are not in charge either.

It does, however, seem more logical to me that if you have PvE and PvP servers than players who prefer PvE go to those servers and players who like PvP go there. Not the other way around. And that the default modus operandi on PvE servers is no-PvP while the default modus operandi on PvP servers is open world PvP.

Otherwise, why have two different types of servers at all?

Because not everyone who PVPs like walking around flagged all the time. The PVP server is there for people who enjoy that sort of thing. The PVE server is for people who don't want to be flagged all the time. But that doesn't mean those same players don't enjoy PVP. They just want to do it at their choosing.,

If you and the other poster had your way, players like me wouldn't be playing this game because I enjoy PVP, but not everywhere all the time. I don't like being flagged everywhere I go, but I also don't want to be forced to PVE all the time with no chance of competition with another player. That's what single player games are for. The way it's set up right now is fine.

You and others like you need to learn that MMOs are played by many types of players and not every thing that comes down the development pipeline is going to cater to specifically to you.

Because not everyone who PVPs like walking around flagged all the time. The PVP server is there for people who enjoy that sort of thing. The PVE server is for people who don't want to be flagged all the time. But that doesn't mean those same players don't enjoy PVP. They just want to do it at their choosing.,

 

If you and the other poster had your way, players like me wouldn't be playing this game because I enjoy PVP, but not everywhere all the time. I don't like being flagged everywhere I go, but I also don't want to be forced to PVE all the time with no chance of competition with another player. That's what single player games are for. The way it's set up right now is fine.

 

You and others like you need to learn that MMOs are played by many types of players and not every thing that comes down the development pipeline is going to cater to specifically to you.

You seem to be reading something quite different into what I wrote than I intended.

I have no interest at all into forcing players to play one way or another. I would welcome the same courtesy from others.

I am fully aware that the PvP servers are for open world PvP. But I am awake enough to realise that the developers always had in mind that there would be PvP between republic and empire even on the PvE servers. That is why you have increasing amounts of contested areas as you level. They are shoving republic and empire players into each others face just to encourage them to flip that PvP switch. They also put some part of the new content in PvP areas for the same reason.

Guess I am glad you are not in charge either.

It does, however, seem more logical to me that if you have PvE and PvP servers than players who prefer PvE go to those servers and players who like PvP go there. Not the other way around. And that the default modus operandi on PvE servers is no-PvP while the default modus operandi on PvP servers is open world PvP.

Otherwise, why have two different types of servers at all?

There is no pvp in the open world areas on pve servers where we on pvp servers have it. If you then are suggesting that they remove the two dedicated pvp areas, one that is for end game, you will have a riot on your hands for BW removing an end game pvp area where pvp servers will have extra content.

I am not to fussed on weather or not there is any PvE Objectives in this update. PvE Players (aka carebears) already have enough content. Players that enjoy PvP are in need of more content other than the same old reptative Warzones.

The thing is that some people rolled on a PvE server to avoid PvP. Being forced into PvP to do PvE content is going to annoy a lot of those people. Heck, I'm on a PvP server and I sympathize with their plight. If they roll on a PvE server they've made it clear they don't want to do open world PvP. Forcing them into it could just hurt the game.

Besides, only bad PvP players get a sense of accomplishment from killing helpless PvE players. Skilled players prefer a challenge like PvP players in similar gear rather than Tionese geared 50s. You really think 1-2 shotting random 50s is content? You need to upgrade your standards a bit.

There is no pvp in the open world areas on pve servers where we on pvp servers have it. If you then are suggesting that they remove the two dedicated pvp areas, one that is for end game, you will have a riot on your hands for BW removing an end game pvp area where pvp servers will have extra content.

No, that is really not at all what I am saying.

Have not been saying several times now in fact.

All I have been saying is that bioware is pushing PvP gameplay even on PvE servers, by putting both factions more and more together into the same zones as they progress. On PvP servers the players are flagged automatically, but everything about the game design and communications from the developers make it clear that they see the PvP aspect as the primary endgame activity. The incorporation of PvP zones or events in the new expansions reinforces that impressin.

Personally I don't care for PvP and would love to have a play mode where I can never accidentally or intentionally interact with any player who is PvP flagged. No buffing, no healing, no guarding, no getting caught in an AoE attack. They are immune to me, I am immune to them.

Bioware has been warned that there are several exploits that allow a highlevel player to force an autoflag on a lower level player. They opted to close only some of the more glaring exploits, but not all of them.

But I am not going to ask for PvP servers to be shut down, nor for an end of voluntary PvP on the PvE servers. PvP is not for me, but I do realise that a lot of players enjoy the PvP gameplay some or all the time. I just wish more players would be willing to extend the courtesy in the other direction as well.

Been two weeks since we were told about the return of the gree coming soon so shouldn't it be on the test server?

Even with the hoildays in the middle its been over 2 months since we got hypergates and I was of the impression that there was going to be new content every 6 to 8 weeks.

hay.

The developers doing the new content are not the ones fixing bugs. So Bioware can do both things at the same time.

Fixing bugs is rarely as easy as we like to think, seeing it only from the outside. So it always takes more time than we, or the developers, hope.

The problem is that the guys creating new content are creating new bugs and the poor "bug fixers" are never getting the chance to catch up.

Maybe it's time Bioware take the new content guys and have them help out the bug fixing guys for a little bit.

You seem to be reading something quite different into what I wrote than I intended.

I have no interest at all into forcing players to play one way or another.

Then you shouldn't have injected yourself into the conversation I was having, because that is exactly what the other poster was saying. Next time know what the conversation is about before butting in with your opinion.

________________________________________________________________________________________

please please please.. Just stop this horrible and unreasonable complaint every time new content is announced. It is getting old and has been pointed out many times that this logic is completely flawed.

 

An mmo that stops to either fix bugs for new content, or stops making new content to fix bugs, has basicly admitted defeat. The game needs to continue doing both to stay healthy.

 

Man, that this is the first response to a long awaited announcement about the last content patch before rothc just really rubs me the wrong way. How much of a whiner can you be.

 

Show me a game without bugs, and then you can make this complaint.

thank you!!!!

thank you!!!!

Can't show you a game without bugs but I can show you several where there are no known issues that cause a CTD, where it isn't impossible to complete flagship content, where advertised additions to the game work, where adding additional companions in an RPG doesn't cause class quests to crash, where...

Do you want me to continue or do you get the general idea? There are products with very few bugs (usually commercial software), then there is most triple A games, then there's other games, then there's Betheseda and somewhere below some student's IT homework they wrote on the bus is this.

Can't show you a game without bugs but I can show you several where there are no known issues that cause a CTD, where it isn't impossible to complete flagship content, where advertised additions to the game work, where adding additional companions in an RPG doesn't cause class quests to crash, where...

 

Do you want me to continue or do you get the general idea? There are products with very few bugs (usually commercial software), then there is most triple A games, then there's other games, then there's Betheseda and somewhere below some student's IT homework they wrote on the bus is this.

Actually, its the person I quoted that you really want to reply to. Nothing personal, but the bashing does get tiresome. I feel your pain, but I move past it. Some were annoying, some worse. However, in a thread about a different topic, bashing EA/Bioware over bugs was just a bad spot to do it. I think many of us just wanted to focus on the thread and the new content many are excited about.... Your not wrong to make a stink and feel justified, just pick a better spot...

Actually, its the person I quoted that you really want to reply to. Nothing personal, but the bashing does get tiresome. I feel your pain, but I move past it. Some were annoying, some worse. However, in a thread about a different topic, bashing EA/Bioware over bugs was just a bad spot to do it. I think many of us just wanted to focus on the thread and the new content many are excited about.... Your not wrong to make a stink and feel justified, just pick a better spot...

Fair point; I was vaguely excited about the reputation mechanic when they announced it it's just every time it CTDs, every time I allocate time but can't play because they can't keep servers up and every time I lose progress because of issues they don't fix a little excitement drains away....

In fact here we go:

"That looks very interesting I can see myself having quite a lot of fun with the rep system depending on how it is implemented and hey new SP content so I am giving this a tentative thumbs up. I think the last content they announced I was looking forward to was the Chevin event so I'm excited by this.

Please, please, please let them have QA'd it properly. "

My original comment on the announcement of 1.7 which I guess can stay as my response to this (it was posted in a long dead thread pre sticky).

Fair point; I was vaguely excited about the reputation mechanic when they announced it it's just every time it CTDs, every time I allocate time but can't play because they can't keep servers up and every time I lose progress because of issues they don't fix a little excitement drains away....

 

In fact here we go:

 

"That looks very interesting I can see myself having quite a lot of fun with the rep system depending on how it is implemented and hey new SP content so I am giving this a tentative thumbs up. I think the last content they announced I was looking forward to was the Chevin event so I'm excited by this.

 

Please, please, please let them have QA'd it properly. "

 

My original comment on the announcement of 1.7 which I guess can stay as my response to this (it was posted in a long dead thread pre sticky).

Yeah, it does look interesting and I am happy I did return to this game after I stopped playing back in March 2012 (I am a founder). My wife and I are having a blast and really love the fact the game is "maturing" into somethign good. I do hope the additions and the bug fixes (ok, slow) keep this game around a very long time. I do agree, hopefully they will make sure this does come out with little to no issues... I rather wait an extra month or more to make sure its right.

That....I... what?

 

This ain't EVE this is supposed to be about a story and choose your adventure and blah, blah, blah. It is not and has never been about the PvP because otherwise all the money they spend on VO was even more wasted than it already is.

 

As far as PvE means anything for PvP it means "opt in" PvP putting PvE only content in PvP areas negates that very deliberate design decision in favour of allowing ganking. In fact the only people this benefits are the gankers - it annoys the PvE people who just want the story content and it doesn't benefit decent PvP players because there is no reward or challenge in completing the task.

If the game is about story then why does the story advancement now come in form of raids the vast majority of pvp players and even pve casuals will never do? How many pugs you reckon successfully completed TFB or even EC?

Where is the revolt against forcing a player like me, that came from kotor for the story, to get a guild and grind up gear so that an ops team will then schlep me for 2.5 hours of fighting kneecaps of giant robots/monsters, so that I can see what this game is all about, story? And you're moaning bout a couple events/world bosses? First world problems pal.

I think that this forcefeeding of pve endgame content makes the necessity to do a mad 800m dash from the entrance of the pvp area to the HK1 area green field/safe zone pale in comparison. But yea, YOU are the segment of the population that's constantly getting forced into something they didnt sign up for to forward story and access new content. My hearts really bleeds for you.

...

Actually, the Story in Operations is pretty much a separate story arc (known as The Dread Masters (TDM) arc). The only place where it crosses into normal PvE is in Section X. And by that time, people usually finished at least Story Mode of Karagga palace (not difficult with it being added into GF queue and with free Tionese gear), which introduces TDM to Republic players (Imps should know them from main Belsavis missions already).

Makeb planetary stroy should not have anything do to with TDM (the original leaked plot was that Hutts served TDM and they made them capture Makeb, or something like that, but now it looks that Hutts just decided to do it from their own free will)

The problem is that the guys creating new content are creating new bugs and the poor "bug fixers" are never getting the chance to catch up.

 

Maybe it's time Bioware take the new content guys and have them help out the bug fixing guys for a little bit.

Agreed. At least some of the bugs need to be fixed before new content is added. Perhaps they should put this on hold for a bit.

Makeb planetary stroy should not have anything do to with TDM (the original leaked plot was that Hutts served TDM and they made them capture Makeb, or something like that, but now it looks that Hutts just decided to do it from their own free will)

Actually the original leak had to do with a new daily Area and Operation.

The new Area was called "Varl" the Hutt homeplanet and the new Operation was called "Scum & Villainy." The Operation had them amassing an army on Varl which would aid them and their new allies... the Dread Masters.

A 2nd planet was datamined after this leak that involved the Hutts taking over, but there was no mention of the DMs for that one (it was probably the previous name for Makeb).

spite and vitriol

Wouldn't know never done it. Like you I'm only here for the class story and have zero interest in grinding dailies etc to run ops.

I accept that is a trade off just like I accepted I would never have a Titan in Eve. Would I like HK-51? yes is the HM flashpoint a barrier? yes do I think this is a good reason to gate yet more content beyond the reach of most casual players? NO.

I trust this adequately clarifies my position.

Agreed. At least some of the bugs need to be fixed before new content is added. Perhaps they should put this on hold for a bit.

I don't think Bioware will make itself more popular if it announces that Mabeb will be postponed for 6 months to do bugfixes. And all that time the content developers would be sitting idle as well.

It is why we are getting a lot of retextured items on the cartel market. Those can be done by relatively junior developers with minimal oversight. Developes who don't have the skill set for debugging anyway.

I think, though, that the bean counters looked at the short term cost versus income balance and forced bioware to let go too many developers for the long term health of the game. Now they don't have the staff to do both the necessary bug fixing of the issues that came to light post launch AND develop the new content that players are expecting at least once a year.

I'll be honest, I'm excited for the content. However, I would be happy to wait on new content if current content was fixed. If the engine was streamlined and didn't bug out every time someone jumped too quickly. If Warzones didn't lag so much, etc.

These are all things that any other developer would have prioritized over newer content. A stable world means a playable world. People who like a solid MMO would start taking notice of this game more. Right now, it only really attracts star wars fanboys and bioware fans. It doesn't do anything to reach beyond that.

It's largely a WoW clone (which is fine, since WoW is the industry standard for MMOs right now), but missing key features and polish. Non fanboys from games like WoW would never consider this game seriously as their MMO of choice based on the issues with the engine and play.

I can only hope that Rise of the Hutt Cartel packs a lot of bug fixes. Shame that if that is the case, you'd have to pay for the engine we should have gotten at launch.