Fun fact for the PVPers: They fixed Reflect.

http://swtor-parser.elasticbeanstalk.com/parser/view/26110/23

The cap for Saber Reflect has either been removed or buffed to Juggernaut levels, I reflected a mass barrage tick for around 11k.

I may be joining the conversation a bit late, but I need to voice a few things here.

Of course what I am about to say is purely preference, but if you are a tank, you're a tank. You aren't expected to do much damage. You are, however, expected to help absorb damage other players take.

Adproduction (or Leonio, your Guardian on TEH), in every screenshot I see, you're dps is slightly above par, and your protection blows. Paper tank, most worthless 'tank' i have ever seen, which says a lot.

Until you consistently get 1 mil prot, just stay dps. You apparently don't have the brains to tank.

Edit: Example : Do you even taunt, bro?

I may be joining the conversation a bit late, but I need to voice a few things here.

 

Of course what I am about to say is purely preference, but if you are a tank, you're a tank. You aren't expected to do much damage. You are, however, expected to help absorb damage other players take.

 

Adproduction (or Leonio, your Guardian on TEH), in every screenshot I see, you're dps is slightly above par, and your protection blows. Paper tank, most worthless 'tank' i have ever seen, which says a lot.

 

Until you consistently get 1 mil prot, just stay dps. You apparently don't have the brains to tank.

 

Edit: Example : Do you even taunt, bro?

Is this **** still going on. I didn't bother with the other posts, but are we still arguing this stuff out. I mean it's amusing to see you guys fusing over this ****, but don't you guys have better **** to do?

1) Let me break this down for you...

PvE: Tanking is a joke, but this is Bioware's fault for making it way too tank friendly. At one time, WoW had only two tanking classes. This game has 3 tank specs and heal 4 healing specs. The healing specs are sooooo overpowered that they can save you short of death allow anyone to off-tank should the main tank can fall. (I have off-tanked as a gunslinger and I have had a commando tank for us in Athiss) With that being said, if you look at my past posts, I have tank everything in this game in dps gear with no problem (and more recently PvP dps gear) so long as the healer was competent. I have even done tactical flashpoints and hard mode flash points with only 0 to 2 personal deaths. There is no incentive in this game to actually use defense gear PvE wise except to appease neurotic elitist.

PvP: Can't do dps and you are easily ignored. I originally started out as a defensive Tank and got killed as much as the dps tank dps, but a slightly higher survivability. THERE IS MORE TO PVP THAN PROTECTING because that's what you really are, a protecting guardian, not a tank since you most people will ignore you to fight yours squishy companions. A noob team will focus on you or have one person attack the healer, a good team will focus fire on the healer and there isn't much you can do to stop them since you have no dps and some of your CCs can be ignore a shield/anti-CC feat. I have found DPS tank to be both affective as both as dps and tank.

2) If I have a protection score of 1 mil this means my team's dynamics is poor (They aren't controlling the fight) and my healer is idiot. (For standing in place or not using CCs) No game should go to the point where you have a 1 million protection score. That means both teams started death matching and didn't really want to engage in the current PvP. In that example you showed, we lost that despite Grand getting 1.2 mil because he contributed nothing.

Hell, a few nights ago, a Telekinetic Jedi Shadow to made 900k damage and 500 to 600k protection, but guess what...we lost that battle. I joined mid way after we were losing. It was said kid I argued with a few weeks ago. He all over the place trying to hit everyone, but accomplishing nothing much like Grand did when I follow him. You hitting people, but DOING NOTHING. In one incidence, I tried to help the kid out to catch a healer and he lift after I nailed the healer to fight someone else. The healer WE BOTH HAD A HARD TIME FIGHTING was buffing the other healers and had we beat that healer, the other healers would crumbled.

I'm not putting a official number on this, but your damage should always be 6 to 10 times your protection score so if you have 500k damage, you should have 50k protection. If you have matching numbers (or near matching number), you are doing something wrong or your team is doing something wrong. (or both) And it's this numbers mentality I DON'T GIVE **** ABOUT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GET **** DONE!!! It's just for show and a stroke-fest.

More proof.

http://arhicks00.wix.com/home

Check out the "Blank" section of my home page. But another reason I don't follow the traditions of pvp because like PvE, PvP is joke too. I wish I had screen cap my last cap game prior to other one because I made 400k in a 4v4 and we all lost 2 twice for one reason. It was a 4 healer team and all they had to do is heal and bubble until time ran out. (The bubble continued even after everyone was dead and they did no damage.) Bioware doesn't care about PvP and neither do I to even take it seriously. They care about balance and I don't think they ever did. Yet, here we are arguing about numbers as if they mean ****. It's as if we compensating for a small dick or lack of self-confidence. It's like you guys are trying to feel important.

BTW, the last person I remember talking to before going F2P was a player who also got 2 mil on her Vig character at one point and he/she noted that the only reason Vig/Veg gets high dps is because (to paraphrase) "Dots and Auto-criticals", WHICH WAS THE SAME **** I SAID A COUPLE POSTS BACK. I don't have DOTS nor AUTO-CRITICALS, but I still did well to make 800k in one game. (100k protection to boot) Give my DPS tank dots to use and he probably do 600k (on low end games) to 1 mil as well.

To put in terms, a bulk of a DPS tank damage comes from hitting really really hard whereas a Vig/Ven damage comes from Auto-criticals and DOTS. (Not my words, but that other player's) So there are different playing methods to get a high end results. And suggesting enhancements that works for your build won't necessarily work for mine because my character lacks your bonuses. Anyway, that is neither here or there as I just GSF now and don't have time for these dumb arguments.

ONE MORE LAST THING, Grand play a few games using a Defense Jedi and post the results to see compare the difference. Since your builds has the ideal enhancements, it shouldn't be a problem. Plus you're already at the end game. Ditto with Dalfurend or whatever his name is. That way you broke your point instead of having me do it since according you I'm undergeared. (knowing you guys, you'll make a chicken **** excuse as to why you won't try the build) Anyway, have a good night and good life.

Is this **** still going on. I didn't bother with the other posts, but are we still arguing this stuff out. I mean it's amusing to see you guys fusing over this ****, but don't you guys have better **** to do?

 

1) Let me break this down for you...

 

PvE: Tanking is a joke, but this is Bioware's fault for making it way too tank friendly. At one time, WoW had only two tanking classes. This game has 3 tank specs and heal 4 healing specs. The healing specs are sooooo overpowered that they can save you short of death allow anyone to off-tank should the main tank can fall. (I have off-tanked as a gunslinger and I have had a commando tank for us in Athiss) With that being said, if you look at my past posts, I have tank everything in this game in dps gear with no problem (and more recently PvP dps gear) so long as the healer was competent. I have even done tactical flashpoints and hard mode flash points with only 0 to 2 personal deaths. There is no incentive in this game to actually use defense gear PvE wise except to appease neurotic elitist.

 

PvP: Can't do dps and you are easily ignored. I originally started out as a defensive Tank and got killed as much as the dps tank dps, but a slightly higher survivability. THERE IS MORE TO PVP THAN PROTECTING because that's what you really are, a protecting guardian, not a tank since you most people will ignore you to fight yours squishy companions. A noob team will focus on you or have one person attack the healer, a good team will focus fire on the healer and there isn't much you can do to stop them since you have no dps and some of your CCs can be ignore a shield/anti-CC feat. I have found DPS tank to be both affective as both as dps and tank.

 

2) If I have a protection score of 1 mil this means my team's dynamics is poor (They aren't controlling the fight) and my healer is idiot. (For standing in place or not using CCs) No game should go to the point where you have a 1 million protection score. That means both teams started death matching and didn't really want to engage in the current PvP. In that example you showed, we lost that despite Grand getting 1.2 mil because he contributed nothing.

 

Hell, a few nights ago, a Telekinetic Jedi Shadow to made 900k damage and 500 to 600k protection, but guess what...we lost that battle. I joined mid way after we were losing. It was said kid I argued with a few weeks ago. He all over the place trying to hit everyone, but accomplishing nothing much like Grand did when I follow him. You hitting people, but DOING NOTHING. In one incidence, I tried to help the kid out to catch a healer and he lift after I nailed the healer to fight someone else. The healer WE BOTH HAD A HARD TIME FIGHTING was buffing the other healers and had we beat that healer, the other healers would crumbled.

 

I'm not putting a official number on this, but your damage should always be 6 to 10 times your protection score so if you have 500k damage, you should have 50k protection. If you have matching numbers (or near matching number), you are doing something wrong or your team is doing something wrong. (or both) And it's this numbers mentality I DON'T GIVE **** ABOUT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GET **** DONE!!! It's just for show and a stroke-fest.

 

More proof.

 

http://arhicks00.wix.com/home

 

Check out the "Blank" section of my home page. But another reason I don't follow the traditions of pvp because like PvE, PvP is joke too. I wish I had screen cap my last cap game prior to other one because I made 400k in a 4v4 and we all lost 2 twice for one reason. It was a 4 healer team and all they had to do is heal and bubble until time ran out. (The bubble continued even after everyone was dead and they did no damage.) Bioware doesn't care about PvP and neither do I to even take it seriously. They care about balance and I don't think they ever did. Yet, here we are arguing about numbers as if they mean ****. It's as if we compensating for a small dick or lack of self-confidence. It's like you guys are trying to feel important.

 

BTW, the last person I remember talking to before going F2P was a player who also got 2 mil on her Vig character at one point and he/she noted that the only reason Vig/Veg gets high dps is because (to paraphrase) "Dots and Auto-criticals", WHICH WAS THE SAME **** I SAID A COUPLE POSTS BACK. I don't have DOTS nor AUTO-CRITICALS, but I still did well to make 800k in one game. (100k protection to boot) Give my DPS tank dots to use and he probably do 600k (on low end games) to 1 mil as well.

 

To put in terms, a bulk of a DPS tank damage comes from hitting really really hard whereas a Vig/Ven damage comes from Auto-criticals and DOTS. (Not my words, but that other player's) So there are different playing methods to get a high end results. And suggesting enhancements that works for your build won't necessarily work for mine because my character lacks your bonuses. Anyway, that is neither here or there as I just GSF now and don't have time for these dumb arguments.

 

ONE MORE LAST THING, Grand play a few games using a Defense Jedi and post the results to see compare the difference. Since your builds has the ideal enhancements, it shouldn't be a problem. Plus you're already at the end game. Ditto with Dalfurend or whatever his name is. That way you broke your point instead of having me do it since according you I'm undergeared. (knowing you guys, you'll make a chicken **** excuse as to why you won't try the build) Anyway, have a good night and good life.

Oh my god...

I don't even..

No...

Just no.

Your job as a tank is to be the shepherd of the group's health, in both PVE and PVP (ALSO WHERE IS YOUR 10/10 TOS AND RAVAGERS HM HRMMM? MR I'VE TANKED ALL CONTENT.)

As a tank, your protection should ALWAYS be proportionate to how much damage the enemy group is doing. If you are mitigating 25-50% of the enemy team's damage, you are doing it right. Less, you are doing it wrong. Guard is used and swapped to protect people from focus fire while healers help the group recover in PVP... simple as that...

The MORE DAMAGE your healer is taking, the more protection they have, if they are getting focused, they are either an easy target, or they are properly doing their job to prop up the group. It's your job to funnel damage as a tank towards you, or at least against targets that can take damage.

Also, it's not that I'm against DPS tanking builds. I'm actually one of the EARLIEST proponents of that build style, and ran it for the majority of my PVP time pre 3.0

(Several pre 3.0 screens of me in full DPS gear in Tank Spec, among some Vigilance Screenshots. A long time ago I debated with Kwerty in regards to this and we both reached the conclusion that in terms of mitigation of Damage in PVP, full DPS gear was the best because of the benefits to Focused Defense and Blade Barrier, but the health pool was too small to be useful for anything where the healer was liable to be CCed.)

http://imgur.com/3woaCQ1,6C2fYso,pFgqMS0,mB45Z8c,XLYJLyE,62437hO#0

That being said, in actual ranked, I would never in a million years run DPS gear, because there are only 3 things that actually matter as a ranked PVP Tank: How fast you can guard swap, how long you can survive, and how much CC you do.

As for PVE tanking, let me know when you clear content mate.

Yeah exactly, grand is 100% correct, he said the same I would have said, how can you say doing 500k damage your protection should only be 50k? That shows you aren't "protecting" at all, that means a) you aren't guard swapping for group members taking damage, and/or B) you aren't using taunts effectively, and at 50k on that amount of damage, I can say for a fact you aren't doing either, I average 100-150k protection in war zones with just taunts in shien form,

As far as PvE goes, with attitude you wouldnt clear any hard content, flashpoints mean nothing, raid boss is a whole different ball game

Yeah exactly, grand is 100% correct, he said the same I would have said, how can you say doing 500k damage your protection should only be 50k? That shows you aren't "protecting" at all, that means a) you aren't guard swapping for group members taking damage, and/or B) you aren't using taunts effectively, and at 50k on that amount of damage, I can say for a fact you aren't doing either, I average 100-150k protection in war zones with just taunts in shien form,

 

As far as PvE goes, with attitude you wouldnt clear any hard content, flashpoints mean nothing, raid boss is a whole different ball game

As far as PVP goes I agree 100% with all comments made by Grand and yourself...

I can do 50k protection very easy on my DPS VG and also on my DPS Jugg usually it is more like 100k+... Just by taunting... 50k is way to low for a tank, even in DPS gear... I usually do about 1:1 in a match... Sometimes more of one than the other... Every match is different... But 1:1 would be the average on my tank in DPS gear

Also never use DPS gear in ranked if you are a tank

Even in DPS gear you should be guard swapping as well as taunting

Even in DPS gear you should be guard swapping as well as taunting

That's what I do. BTW, played Ranked as a dps tank and won a game, but I lost the next game as a vigilance.

Oh my god...

 

I don't even..

 

No...

 

Just no.

 

Your job as a tank is to be the shepherd of the group's health, in both PVE and PVP (ALSO WHERE IS YOUR 10/10 TOS AND RAVAGERS HM HRMMM? MR I'VE TANKED ALL CONTENT.)

 

As a tank, your protection should ALWAYS be proportionate to how much damage the enemy group is doing. If you are mitigating 25-50% of the enemy team's damage, you are doing it right. Less, you are doing it wrong. Guard is used and swapped to protect people from focus fire while healers help the group recover in PVP... simple as that...

 

The MORE DAMAGE your healer is taking, the more protection they have, if they are getting focused, they are either an easy target, or they are properly doing their job to prop up the group. It's your job to funnel damage as a tank towards you, or at least against targets that can take damage.

Quote, "2) If I have a protection score of 1 mil this means my team's dynamics is poor (They aren't controlling the fight) and my healer is idiot. (For standing in place or not using CCs) No game should go to the point where you have a 1 million protection score. That means both teams started death matching and didn't really want to engage in the current PvP. In that example you showed, we lost that despite Grand getting 1.2 mil because he contributed nothing."

I swap, taunt, and challenging call with utility to ensure their safety at the cost of my own, but it does not stop me from doing damage as well. In addition, it doesn't stop my friends for fending for themselves. Coordination is the key.

As for PVE tanking, let me know when you clear content mate.

Played through everything in DPS gear. (Operations, FPS, TFPS) Had no problems, mate, even got a congratulations by one of the healers who was nervous I was going F-up their operations, but was surprised I could take so much damage. It's because I had tank armoring, but dps mods/enhancements. (and use my defensive measures to boot)

Yeah exactly, grand is 100% correct, he said the same I would have said, how can you say doing 500k damage your protection should only be 50k?

That's not what I'm saying at all. As I explain above, if you're damage and protection score match each other or near each other, either you or your team isn't putting enough effort in controlling other players. This is where slow and immobilization helps. I have been in PvP session where we control the fight, leading our opponents to where we wanted them to go (and the vice versa happen to us) and by doing so we minimize the need for protection.

That's how you win pvp fights in ANY MMORPGs with mechanic similar to this. I remember playing my old gunslinger a while back and I saw the other team members attacking my friends, and I use my leg shots on some or focus my fire on others. Sometimes, I use my AOEs to do clean up and other times I would use a CCs on the most dangerous dps while picking off his friends. We didn't have to heal so much as a result of it. It goes back to what I said, coordination and psychological warfare wins games...not your gear.

Again, this is not to say you shouldn't have a protection score, but even you have to use common sense when looking at the numbers and realize that the fight got out of hand if you're looking at 600k or more. You and your team might want to review their dynamics. If you lone wolf it like Grand did when showing off, then you'll lose the battle. 1 mil damage doesn't win games no more than 800k damage does.

That's what I do. BTW, played Ranked as a dps tank and won a game, but I lost the next game as a vigilance.

 

 

 

Quote, "2) If I have a protection score of 1 mil this means my team's dynamics is poor (They aren't controlling the fight) and my healer is idiot. (For standing in place or not using CCs) No game should go to the point where you have a 1 million protection score. That means both teams started death matching and didn't really want to engage in the current PvP. In that example you showed, we lost that despite Grand getting 1.2 mil because he contributed nothing."

 

I swap, taunt, and challenging call with utility to ensure their safety at the cost of my own, but it does not stop me from doing damage as well. In addition, it doesn't stop my friends for fending for themselves. Coordination is the key.

 

 

 

Played through everything in DPS gear. (Operations, FPS, TFPS) Had no problems, mate, even got a congratulations by one of the healers who was nervous I was going F-up their operations, but was surprised I could take so much damage. It's because I had tank armoring, but dps mods/enhancements. (and use my defensive measures to boot)

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. As I explain above, if you're damage and protection score match each other or near each other, either you or your team isn't putting enough effort in controlling other players. This is where slow and immobilization helps. I have been in PvP session where we control the fight, leading our opponents to where we wanted them to go (and the vice versa happen to us) and by doing so we minimize the need for protection.

 

That's how you win pvp fights in ANY MMORPGs with mechanic similar to this. I remember playing my old gunslinger a while back and I saw the other team members attacking my friends, and I use my leg shots on some or focus my fire on others. Sometimes, I use my AOEs to do clean up and other times I would use a CCs on the most dangerous dps while picking off his friends. We didn't have to heal so much as a result of it. It goes back to what I said, coordination and psychological warfare wins games...not your gear.

 

Again, this is not to say you shouldn't have a protection score, but even you have to use common sense when looking at the numbers and realize that the fight got out of hand if you're looking at 600k or more. You and your team might want to review their dynamics. If you lone wolf it like Grand did when showing off, then you'll lose the battle. 1 mil damage doesn't win games no more than 800k damage does.

If you had 1 mil protection it means you were guardswapping, and/or your healer didn't die because he or she was capable of keeping themself propped up. Simple as that.

Imagine this: 3 hatred sins, 1 operative healer, vs Guardian Tank, 2 unnamed DPS, and an unnamed healer. If you get 500k damage as a tank and only 50k protection, you are a scrub beyond belief. Guarding ANYONE in that match, let alone the healer, is guaranteed to net you upwards of 250k prot, assuming your healer can keep you propped up and you are capable of guard swapping.

Anyone who says otherwise, is a scrub and supreme idiot beyond belief.

If you had 1 mil protection it means you were guardswapping, and/or your healer didn't die because he or she was capable of keeping themself propped up. Simple as that.

I don't doubt the tank in question IF they are doing all of this. I doubt the team in question if anyone is alive to reach the healer. A match should not go on long enough for you to even reach that number unless you are two highly coordinated teams. (Perfect world scenario) Should it go on for that long, it's a likelihood someone in your team (if not everyone) sucks. If I get 500k, it makes me question what my healer was doing? (Playing pocket pool?) My healer could not have been melee range or else he/she would be a noob. And if they getting ranged attacked, I would have notice the unless they came from behind. (But then that's I also look at the map sometimes too)

To put it simple, racking up large numbers like this is just poor coordination on everyone's part. No matter how you spin the story, someone wasn't doing there job.

Same with the 1 million damage. Like the Twinks of wow, you're just a sadist and beating people up because no battle should drag out that you end up with 1 million damage unless you purposely weren't try to accomplish pvp objectives. (OR in the rare chance you guys were highly coordinated teams)

Several pre 3.0 screens of me in full DPS gear in Tank Spec, among some Vigilance Screenshots. A long time ago I debated with Kwerty in regards to this and

3.0 and beyond changed a lot of stuff for and like you told me, you should try stuff after every patch. Don't be hypocrite. DPS tanks play just like Focus burst use to before the 3.0 patch. You would know that if you played.

Too tired to do a search, so sorry if it's already covered somewhere.

I want to start playing a guardian tank in dps gear, only in regs, so no ranked whatsoever, and mostly for the lulz.

But one question arose: Should I use a shield or genrator as offhand?

Too tired to do a search, so sorry if it's already covered somewhere.

I want to start playing a guardian tank in dps gear, only in regs, so no ranked whatsoever, and mostly for the lulz.

But one question arose: Should I use a shield or genrator as offhand?

Shield, STACK POWER.

It increases the damage absorbed by blade barrier. Augment power as well. Go for zero crit and surge until 70% then dive into alacrity.

Shield, STACK POWER.

 

It increases the damage absorbed by blade barrier. Augment power as well. Go for zero crit and surge until 70% then dive into alacrity.

I heard from a very reliable source that you want to stack crit as high as possible!

JKJK

I missed this thread ^_^

Shield, STACK POWER.

 

It increases the damage absorbed by blade barrier. Augment power as well. Go for zero crit and surge until 70% then dive into alacrity.

Alright, thanks. Did everything right then

I heard from a very reliable source that you want to stack crit as high as possible!

 

JKJK

 

I missed this thread ^_^

Yep it and worked!!!

Such good Vigilance DPS, protection, and objectives. Such good.

http://imgur.com/vsX9Ppu,pyXKcYY

Such good Vigilance DPS, protection, and objectives. Such good.

 

http://imgur.com/vsX9Ppu,pyXKcYY

Such defeat

Such good Vigilance DPS, protection, and objectives. Such good.

 

http://imgur.com/vsX9Ppu,pyXKcYY

First, money run? I mean I noted it in the same image (I can see my comment in your chat) and I haven't change the build since I retired. I would have done GSF, but it went silent so I had to make money somewhere. (Even if I had to be someone's punching bag)

Secondly, you're showing a picture of me doing 200k with a build I don't normally don't run with nor care if I win. You even made comments about the 500k:rolleyes: I made (something about backfill) after that fight, but you didn't showed that one. Way to be dishonest, buddy. I made 850k (without even trying, I mean I really didn't try) and I just won a game with you. Funny you don't show those pictures. (Where I had to carry you in that fight where you were supposedly having connection problems and had to go to the living room...you know like how you were having connection problems when we started losing the first Huttball)

So you're this Leonio guy?

Da***, where you afk the whole match? Any chance you're playing

No wonder they lost, sorry Ry:(

So you're this Leonio guy?

 

Da***, where you afk the whole match? Any chance you're playing

 

 

 

No wonder they lost, sorry Ry:(

1) well sort of. I made one touchdown by accident when I was hoping someone kill me. Instead I get pulled into the end zone by bounty hunter. I spent the rest of the match just going through the motions. I just fought random person.

2) Who?

3) We go onto win 2 datacron games and 3v3 where I did all the work.