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WHERE is the progression? All Ops can't give the same loot.


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I don't get this games PvE gear progression AT ALL. What the heck?

By just running Eternity Vault Hard-Mode (arguably the easiest Ops around) I can gear up full Rakata.

 

So, where to go from there? No unique pieces that are better drop in:

1. Karagga (any mode) = nope

2. Eternity vault Nightmare = nope

3. Explosive Conflict (story mode) = nope (with maybe 1 Black Hole drop at the final boss that only 1 person gets)

4. Terror From Beyond (story mode) = drops Rakata (what? still Rakata?) with ~1 BH drop for the whole raid

5. Hard Mode EC/TFB = THE ONLY PROGRESSION AND YOU NEED BLACKHOLE GEAR to clear

 

And I'm not talking about "is it POSSIBLE to clear EC HM with just Rakata?".

I think it is safe to say that it would not be easy for most to clear EC HM with just Rakata and for most just not possible.

 

personally, I don't care because I am in campaign but I care in the sense that basically only 2 Operations are even worth the time to log in to the game.

 

What ever happened to unique items that make you think about how you want to allocate your stats?

Basically, anyone playing my same class/spec chooses the exact same gear because that is all there is to choose from.

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You are aware that the first kills of EC HM were done in unaugmented rakata, right? It's 100% possible. Rakata is ALL you need for EC HM. To suggest it's "not possible for most" is absolutely silly and fallacious.

 

Progression goes like this: tier 1 SM -> tier 2 SM (EC or TFB) OR tier 1 HM (EV or KP) -> EC HM -> TFB HM

 

It's a very clear progression path. They're just giving options at the SM level.

Edited by Mavery
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I don't know much about gear progression, but what I see is more options to get Rakata.

 

Not long ago, I ran 4 times in a row EV hm (yes, 4 weeks) and I didn't get the Rakata boots for my Sorcerer. Not that I lost the rolls, just damn thing wouldn't drop. I finally went to EC sm and I got them in the first run.

More options helps with bad luck.

 

Or maybe someone got benched for EV hm and still needs gear, so the main raiding team can go to EC sm and still get that other something.

 

I don't think it's bad having more sources for Rakata.

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The reason it's that way, is because BW shot themselves in the foot with stats. They dumbed stats down so much, and make diminishing returns hit you so hard, that alternative sets of gear are pretty well impossible. The best they could do is new looking gear, or new set bonuses, plus vanity gear.

 

But we'll never see 2 comparable sets of gear in a tier, and you'll never see ops giving away different sets of gear in the same ops tiers.

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In regards to Operation progression my guild did it like this.

 

Tionese-Columi mix:

SM EV

SM KP (repeat x3 for Columi Hilts/Barrels)

HM EV (while farming SM KP for Weapons)

 

Columi-Rakata mix:

HM KP (after finishing farm of SM KP)

SM EC (pointless post-nerf and the massive decrease in BH Comms)

NiM EV (until you have "Infernal" or everyone who wants speeder has speeder)

 

Mostly Rakata, with some Columi:

NiM KP (for BH Comms and the Hat! I love that hat!)

HM EC (Tier 2 gear! Finally!)

 

P.S: We haven't cleared HM Terror yet so I can't comment on the 1.4 Ops progression

Edited by AshlaBoga
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In regards to Operation progression my guild did it like this.

 

Tionese-Columi mix:

SM EV

SM KP (repeat x3 for Columi Hilts/Barrels)

HM EV (while farming SM KP for Weapons)

 

Columi-Rakata mix:

HM KP (after finishing farm of SM KP)

SM EC (pointless post-nerf and the massive decrease in BH Comms)

NiM EV (until you have "Infernal" or everyone who wants speeder has speeder)

 

Mostly Rakata, with some Columi:

NiM KP (for BH Comms and the Hat! I love that hat!)

HM EC (Tier 2 gear! Finally!)

 

P.S: We haven't cleared HM Terror yet so I can't comment on the 1.4 Ops progression

 

:( there are no BH comms in SM EC and NiM KP (haven't done NiM KP post patch so I cant confirm it)

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You can do HM EC with rakata. That's what everyone was doing when it was 1st released, and ppl , myself included were clearing it all in 2hrs. With augmentation kits(released after EC), it is now easier than ever to clear HM EC. Now players got Full campaign gear and are doing HM TFB.

 

Story modes are for the casual players who just want to see more content, without feeling being left out when a new operation was released.

 

Simple to understand yes? :p

Edited by Moriganno
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I just want to comment about gear progression and difficulty of HM EC being significantly more difficult than NM KP. If HM EC is the only new place to go for any casual guild to get gear "higher" than rakata you MUST clear zorn and toth HM (prolly one of the most frustrating boss encounters ive ever seen).

 

I just figured that with a new set of armor and a new OP being released their may be a workaround from this HM EC. EVEN if only one piece of campaign dropped off of last boss TFB SM.

 

Give the story mode players a bone, any bone, for completing the next step in the "story" of OP's..

BH is Rakata for the most part cept for a FEW pieces in which the stats are minimally better

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BH is Rakata for the most part cept for a FEW pieces in which the stats are minimally better

 

?

 

if you rip out mods from BH pieces and stick them in rakata your gear is significantly better, just requires you knowing what mods/enhancements you need.

 

In reference to the OP,you can't get full rakata from doing EV HM. EV and KP each drop half the rakata set, meaning you need to do both to get the full set. It seems Nightmare EC and TFB will do the same when released.

Edited by Vacarius
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if you rip out mods from BH pieces and stick them in rakata your gear is significantly better, just requires you knowing what mods/enhancements you need.

 

This is what I did with most of my gear, although I went back and replaced my rakata with tionese since it looked better with my pink bounty hunter chest. You can keep your set bonuses this way while using your black hole coms that you get through the FP dailies and weeklies to upgrade the modifications. I actually geared out my alt in 61 level mods by doing dailies. There are a lot of different ways to gear up without necessarily doing HM denova. I used the boots for Mercs since those had power/surge stats and were one of the cheaper pieces. Anyway, good luck gearing up!

Edited by Chorusgirl
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This is what I did with most of my gear, although I went back and replaced my rakata with tionese since it looked better with my pink bounty hunter chest. You can keep your set bonuses this way while using your black hole coms that you get through the FP dailies and weeklies to upgrade the modifications. I actually geared out my alt in 61 level mods by doing dailies. There are a lot of different ways to gear up without necessarily doing HM denova. I used the boots for Mercs since those had power/surge stats and were one of the cheaper pieces. Anyway, good luck gearing up!

 

Done exactly the same, never liked the orange green look of the jedi guardian gear. Rakata looks much better (even tho rakata itself is meh)

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Completely agree with OP.

 

Before 1.4 you could do EC SM or KP NiM to build up for EC HM. Now you basically just need to farm BH comms from the Group Finder, get some easy Rakata from EV/KP HM, ignore all the other ops which are completely useless, and dive right into EC HM (you don't even really need EC Story now cause it's mechanics don't prepare you for hardmode anymore).

 

So BW have added one worthwhile Ops:

- TFB HM

and one worthless:

- TFB SM

and made all the following Ops worthless:

- EV NiM (was worthless before, nothing has changed)

- KP NiM (I think it still does give BH comms, but not enough really to justify doing it)

- EC SM.

 

And after that you wonder why people are leaving the game because it's boring and lacks content? Who needs content which no one will play except for one pass to learn the mechanics.

Edited by Lightning_
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I'll take a different tact. I don't really agree with their progression, but I understand why they're doing it. Now having said that I think they are kind of shooting themselves in the foot. At least when NiM KP gave BH Comms there was a reason for raids to run that content. Now there is really no reason to run KP except on Story mode (which let's face it is faceroll easy). So instead of having three somewhat viable end game content pieces they now only have two. For a game that is light on end game, this strikes me as a bad choice.
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I don't get this games PvE gear progression AT ALL. What the heck?

By just running Eternity Vault Hard-Mode (arguably the easiest Ops around) I can gear up full Rakata.

I know what you're saying but please, at least get your facts straight. You cannot get a Rakata main hand in EV HM and I'm pretty sure you can't get a Rakata headpiece either. I don't think Rakata bracers or belts drop there either.

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I know what you're saying but please, at least get your facts straight. You cannot get a Rakata main hand in EV HM and I'm pretty sure you can't get a Rakata headpiece either. I don't think Rakata bracers or belts drop there either.

 

Actually, the bounty hunter/trooper and warrior/night classes can pick up the rakata hilts/barrels from Gharj. Making the step up to KP HM relatively meaningless for those classes. Now that offhands are modifiable for ALL classes, can't the other two professions do this as well? Are they bound to slot?

 

You are, however, correct about Rakata headpiece. Though with farming EV HM, you can get the enhancement and modification fairly easily, and you can hope for the rakata armoring to drop, buy one off the gtn for 200-400k, or just have someone make it for you for mats and a "tip.'

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The gear progression is obviously there.

 

Instance-wise? BW just offers alternative paths because majority of people (read non-hardcore players) want options.

 

The way 1.4 positioned (nerfed ec sm and made TB sm drops columi), it indicates that SM is not part of progression. SM may be just one of a few possible stepping stones to ease fresh 50 into raiding.

 

Are you preferring/suggesting an absolutely linear path where a raid group would need to raid the same instance over and over again for months to gear up the whole group before moving to the next tier?

 

I played since launch and have multiple alts in top tier gears. Do I prefer they keep adding tiers so my past effort counts in the future? Yes. But it is unlikely to happen.

 

There are only ~2 tiers of raid content atm. So maybe too early to say how quickly a future fresh 50 can achieve top tier.

Edited by Banegio
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Heres a hint, If you don't need gear from it it's time to progress ie into the next tier of difficulty.

I like the fact that I now have options to gear up my incomming imperial alts.

1.To get to columi lvl do SM EV and KP., Flashpoints too.

2.To get to rakata SM EC and TFB, + HM EV and KP.

3.To get campaign. HM EC

4.To get godly gear HM TFB.

 

Thats 4 steps that take you through all the content and all the gear tiers, how is that not progressive?

 

I honestly think the majority of the populace just needs to get a treatment for purple fever. Play to see the content, Play to enjoy a challenge, Play to have fun instead of "OMG they don't drop better gear in every tier i'm wasting my time"

 

None of the earlier content is invalidated, It just smooths out the RNG factor. instead of having 2 shots per week at the Rakata MH or offhand you now have 6, how is that a bad thing? Think of newly starting raid groups and guilds trying to get geared up?Think of people trying to optimise their gear? This way of doing things is quite good for newbies,returning players etc.They don't feel screwed on the " i cant see content" front

 

Rakata is the stepping stone into HM EC and TFB, without it people really will suffer, why shouldn't bioware make it more available?It doesn't hurt the hardcore (they're done with rakata 6-8 months ago) It doesn't hurt the bulk of the raiding community (we were done with it 3-4 months ago) it only helps the aforementioned people.

 

The best thing is, The aforementioned people actually have to go through some of the content to get the gear, theres very few pieces of rakata outside of ops so they're getting some experience before stepping into a raid. This is alot mroe important than people realise. Look at the LFR crowd in wow, it shows how much the free epics for everyone has hurt the community, manners and skillwise. Yes you can kite people through and they won't learn a thing but hey you're kiting them through out of the goodness of your heart right?

Edited by Karasuko
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Heres a hint, If you don't need gear from it it's time to progress ie into the next tier of difficulty.

I like the fact that I now have options to gear up my incomming imperial alts.

1.To get to columi lvl do SM EV and KP., Flashpoints too.

2.To get to rakata SM EC and TFB, + HM EV and KP.

3.To get campaign. HM EC

4.To get godly gear HM TFB.

 

 

Expertly stated. All the whining about lack of end game content and when Bioware actually gives you options on progression all you do is complain? I thought the Op and gear progression was stupidly obvious until i read this thread.

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The Pavlov reward has been removed for my main with these changes. It makes running these on him pointless but instead motivates it me to level and alt to go through all the gearing way again, which I am actually looking forward to.

 

I would like however to have the Nightmare Modes to EC and TFB, just buff everything 30% and add extra loot on bosses (commendation and exotic material wise too).

 

EDIT: I remembered why I was not excited with anything else except BH comms and new Hilt source. It was because I found mods and enhancement in BH gear to be the best, the devs putting together sets inserted tanking armorings into DPS sets, in short - itemization in premade sets sucks for me.

Edited by BogyOne
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and one worthless:

- TFB SM

Only worthless if you look at with a strictly overgeared Me mentality. Personally I got no gear out of it either, but we took some guildmates alts that were fairly fresh 50 and started gearing them up. Now it will be faster than ever to gear them with HM KP, HM EV, SM EC and SM TfB, ready for HM EC... They will not have to do HM KP for two months trying to get a mainhand drop like I did on my Shadow...Never did get it there, got it on NiM mode.

 

More Ops means more opportunity to get guild mates, friends and alts geared. I don't have to say, sorry locked out, I can say sorry can't do that one, but what about this one.

 

Also with the mats and credits I took out of TfB, I wouldn't mind doing SM TfB once a week.

Edited by mikebevo
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Heres a hint, If you don't need gear from it it's time to progress ie into the next tier of difficulty.

I like the fact that I now have options to gear up my incomming imperial alts.

1.To get to columi lvl do SM EV and KP., Flashpoints too.

2.To get to rakata SM EC and TFB, + HM EV and KP.

3.To get campaign. HM EC

4.To get godly gear HM TFB.

 

Thats 4 steps that take you through all the content and all the gear tiers, how is that not progressive?

Maybe because people think that the newest content should provide the highest tier gear? It's just kinda odd seeing the newest content up at #2 on the progression list.

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Maybe because people think that the newest content should provide the highest tier gear? It's just kinda odd seeing the newest content up at #2 on the progression list.

 

Story modes are not progression. They plateu'd for a reason. They are to see the storyline develop w/out making them too hard. Heck, I did group finder SM KP last night on my fresh lvl 50 tank that was using some Recruit gear, a couple of Rakata Implants, and whatever else I had scrounged together from finishing the Corelia quests and Corelia comms. I tanked it just fine with my "awesome 19k health". We did it without really stopping to explain strats, no VOIP, no CC'ing.

 

SM EC and SM TFB may be tougher, but they are same step up as going from HM FP's to HM LI. And they drop the exact same gear (surprise surprise). If you want gear progression past Rakata, do HM Ops or farm daily HM's every day again and again. Either put a lot of time and consistently hit the feeder bar every day to get your BH comms or learn to do HM EC and clear it in 2 hours in one night. So it's either 7+ hours a week, spread out on 7 days, or 2 hours one night a week.

 

But doing SM EC for 1.5-2 hrs is just too simple to acquire gear.

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Story modes are not progression.

 

Regardless, the simple fact is by doing SM EV/KP you can get the gear needed to so HM EV/KP and SM EC / TfB which will get you the gear to get into HM EC which will get you into HM TFB. Pretty much a progression

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Regardless, the simple fact is by doing SM EV/KP you can get the gear needed to so HM EV/KP and SM EC / TfB which will get you the gear to get into HM EC which will get you into HM TFB. Pretty much a progression

 

Yes, but if you've ran SM EC all this time and now look at SM TFB and go "where's my progression", there isn't any. They're not going to retroactively remove all the Rakata gear from SM EC and/or Columi from EV/KP, but they stopped the "gear trend" for SM TFB. There's no reason you need BH gear to do SM TFB. If you're full BH gear, then go do HM EC/TFB. That's the only way you'll get to progress. There's 0 reason you should get EC HM gear from SM TFB.

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