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Roll needs a nerf


jgoldsack

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It will be nerfed at some point I'm quite sure but BW typically operates on a 6-8 months recurring interval when it comes to these things.

 

I fully expect it to have a 6 seconds CD around Christmas.

 

Unfortunately, this is true.

 

It will absolutely have some sort of a cooldown eventually, because it fricking needs it... only it will take a few months for them to admit fault.

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Unfortunately, this is true.

 

It will absolutely have some sort of a cooldown eventually, because it fricking needs it... only it will take a few months for them to admit fault.

 

Then it needs to be changed to roll something like 20m (always) and cost maybe 10 energy. It's pretty worthless if you can't spam 2-3 in a row.

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You can spam 2 mara/sentinel speeds in a row and run farther than roll like this.

 

Again. Requires 30 stacks, and have long cooldowns.

 

I really think you need to stop grasping at straws. There is no other single character ability that does what roll does, and carries the ball as well.

 

As long as you have energy, you can spam the ability. No other ability has that.

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Again. Requires 30 stacks, and have long cooldowns.

 

I really think you need to stop grasping at straws. There is no other single character ability that does what roll does, and carries the ball as well.

 

As long as you have energy, you can spam the ability. No other ability has that.

 

You can built 30 stacks with introspection every 30 seconds (in combat/carnage skill tree). Not to mention that you get them free while fightings.

It takes almost 30 seconds to get from 0 energy to full energy. The biggest difference I can see is right now that valorous call (that builds 30 stacks immeaditely) has 3 minute cd, while cool head has 1 minute cd. However, 0 stacks doesn't affect your fighting in any way, while 0 energy means you can only spam flurry of bolts.

 

I really think people should stop screaming "give it a cd! It hurts huttball!". This just makes me hate that annoying map even more.

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Again. Requires 30 stacks, and have long cooldowns.

 

I really think you need to stop grasping at straws. There is no other single character ability that does what roll does, and carries the ball as well.

 

As long as you have energy, you can spam the ability. No other ability has that.

 

Right, all classes should behave exactly the same. Screw having unique abilities.

 

You know, come to think of it, I can't pull someone into fire on my Scoundrel and then speed off while immune to CC like I can on my Shadow. Shadows/Juggs are still kings of Huttball. Scoundrels advantage in Huttball is spent after the first 10s of a match.

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You can built 30 stacks with introspection every 30 seconds (in combat/carnage skill tree). Not to mention that you get them free while fightings.

It takes almost 30 seconds to get from 0 energy to full energy. The biggest difference I can see is right now that valorous call (that builds 30 stacks immeaditely) has 3 minute cd, while cool head has 1 minute cd. However, 0 stacks doesn't affect your fighting in any way, while 0 energy means you can only spam flurry of bolts.

 

I really think people should stop screaming "give it a cd! It hurts huttball!". This just makes me hate that annoying map even more.

 

The issue with that though is you go to 0 every death, whereas for a scoundrel, you are back at full energy, so it is a bit different.

 

I am 100% against giving it a cooldown for scoundrels. I would not support it in any way. I like the ability, I use it a lot on my own scoundrel. My only issue is that I feel it should drop the ball in huttball when it is used.

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The issue with that though is you go to 0 every death, whereas for a scoundrel, you are back at full energy, so it is a bit different.

 

I am 100% against giving it a cooldown for scoundrels. I would not support it in any way. I like the ability, I use it a lot on my own scoundrel. My only issue is that I feel it should drop the ball in huttball when it is used.

 

The opening of a match is the only time its really much of an advantage at all. It doesn't matter that they can spam it mid match. They still aren't the best ball carriers.

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Right, all classes should behave exactly the same. Screw having unique abilities.

 

You know, come to think of it, I can't pull someone into fire on my Scoundrel and then speed off while immune to CC like I can on my Shadow. Shadows/Juggs are still kings of Huttball. Scoundrels advantage in Huttball is spent after the first 10s of a match.

 

Have I started ANYWHERE that I want the ability taken away? No. Not a single place have I started that roll needs to be taken away. All I have said is that it needs to drop the ball.

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The opening of a match is the only time its really much of an advantage at all. It doesn't matter that they can spam it mid match. They still aren't the best ball carriers.

 

Best? No.

 

But they are no where near the worst, arguably one of the better ones, if they happen to have full energy. Seen it a lot in WZ lately where the scoundrel will grab the ball, roll up the ramp, roll over the fire pit, then roll beeline to the end zone.

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Actually it is. I completed a number of huttballs where the scoundrel rolled pretty much from the first firepit on the lower level, all the way to the end zone in a matter of seconds, taking no damage in the fire, all teh way to the goal and scoring.

 

Not once.. but 5 times.

 

and just so you know, even at 6m, if the scoundrel has full energy and probe on cooldown, they can roll 8 times. That is 48m. In a matter of seconds.

Video it the next time plz then I will believe you ok roll is fine

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Have I started ANYWHERE that I want the ability taken away? No. Not a single place have I started that roll needs to be taken away. All I have said is that it needs to drop the ball.

 

Did I say you did? You said there's no other ability that carries the ball well like Scamper...hence my comment that unique skills be darned! What's wrong w/ a unique skill that makes scoundrels halfway useful in Huttball? You know how much we sucked before the patch? Couldn't get anywhere quickly, couldn't pull people into fire, couldn't push people off ledge. We had zero Huttball utility. I loathed playing Huttball on my Scoundrel. While my Shadow was(still is) a blast. Now, HB actually enjoyable as a scoundrel.

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Best? No.

 

But they are no where near the worst, arguably one of the better ones, if they happen to have full energy. Seen it a lot in WZ lately where the scoundrel will grab the ball, roll up the ramp, roll over the fire pit, then roll beeline to the end zone.

 

And what's wrong w/ them no longer being the worst? They finally bring something to the table in HB. Seriously...by you answer it sounds like you demand they be the worst. Why aren't you whining about the best ball carrier since you just admitted it's still not the scoundrel.

Edited by ML_DoubleTap
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Best? No.

 

But they are no where near the worst, arguably one of the better ones, if they happen to have full energy. Seen it a lot in WZ lately where the scoundrel will grab the ball, roll up the ramp, roll over the fire pit, then roll beeline to the end zone.

 

You make it so roll drops the ball then they certainly would become the worst. Are they the best now? NO, so if they are not the best then it is not OP. If they were by far the best ball carrier then you might have a point. In the end, shadows and guardians are better ball carriers and that is all that matters. They aren't even in the top 2 and you want to make them the worst ball carrier with such a change. Maybe they are great in pug HB but should we really destroy their ball carrying capabilities because idiots like you can't handle roll in pugs.

 

Stop being an idiot and realize that you are asking to make them the worst ball carrier.

 

Honestly this seems more like scoundrel and operative hate then it is an actual well thought out topic about roll being OP in HB.

 

HB would be far better if they took the new hindered debuff, the one from electro net, applied to all ball carriers, and remove the constant slow from carrying the ball. This would help turn it into a game about passing, they way it should be played. You may get some turtle strategies but there are ways to remove that. 1 is to put a damage increase debuff on the ball carrier. Another is to prevent teams from winning 0-0, by adding in extra time if there is a tie. a non timed sudden death period.

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Did I say you did? You said there's no other ability that carries the ball well like Scamper...hence my comment that unique skills be darned! What's wrong w/ a unique skill that makes scoundrels halfway useful in Huttball? You know how much we sucked before the patch? Couldn't get anywhere quickly, couldn't pull people into fire, couldn't push people off ledge. We had zero Huttball utility. I loathed playing Huttball on my Scoundrel. While my Shadow was(still is) a blast. Now, HB actually enjoyable as a scoundrel.

 

I said there was no spammable ability like scamper/roll that was able to carry that ball. You misinterptreted it to infer that I said that it should not be a unique ability.

 

I played a scoundrel healer pre-patch, I am aware of the limitations they had. Last I knew, mercs and snipers couldn't get anywhere quickly either, at least scoundrels had stealth. *shrug* I still enjoyed huttball on mine.

 

 

And what's wrong w/ them no longer being the worst? They finally bring something to the table in HB. Seriously...by you answer it sounds like you demand they be the worst. Why aren't you whining about the best ball carrier since you just admitted it's still not the scoundrel.

 

Did I say I wanted them to be the worst? No. But thanks for letting me know what I am wanting. The current "best" ball carrier (jugg) can be easily countered by not being dumb and letting them jump to you.

 

I am sorry if you cannot think of other ways for your scoundrel to be useful in huttball other than carrying a ball. You got your escape, your quick movement, just what scoundrels were asking for.

 

And why is disagreeing with an ability, or suggesting that it is too powerful, whining? What ever happened to people simply having disagreements without resorting to calling people whiners?

 

Obviously we are not going to agree, so there is no point in my continuing this discussion.

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roll takes 25 energy, and they can go 24m on a full bar, 48m if they have their probe up (whatever it is called that refills their energy). Spamming roll will get them moving much faster than any other speed boost out there.

 

The problem is they move so fast out of range (I have had them outdistance me even with me using force speed, and still out of range) that being able to CC or stun them is extremely difficult.

 

Chances are they will roll past a teammate who will probably stun/snare/push/knowckback/pull them.

 

I haven't had much trouble with them really.

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The focus seems to be on Spammable, completing ignoring the drawbacks to the skill. Yes, Force Leap isn't spammable, but it also covers 30 meters, can be used effectively while slowed, and gives other buffs (like CC immunity) depending on spec. It also doesn't cost a ridiculous amount of energy.
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My re-balance idea (posted elsewhere);

 

Initial cost of 10 energy but applies a stacking debuff that increases cost by 30 energy, duration to be fine tuned, maybe 9s - 12s.

 

Roll 1; 10 energy (cheaper!)

Roll 2; 40 energy (2 back to back rolls cost 50 energy, same as now)

Roll 3; 70 energy (have to wait for regen, or pop the probe)

Roll 4; 100 energy (not gonna happen)

 

This brings it back into line as a gap closer and escape (what I believe was the original intent), and away from a blanket speed boost ability.

Edited by Okod
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LOL... I have no problem with roll (and I am not a Smuggler or Agent). None of the force users (by far the ones complaining loudest and hardest) think the whole chain pull/SmashMonkey Jump to score is wrong. You'd all scream Bloody Murder is they nerfed that in WZs.
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My re-balance idea (posted elsewhere);

 

Initial cost of 10 energy but applies a stacking debuff that increases cost by 30 energy, duration to be fine tuned, maybe 9s - 12s.

 

Roll 1; 10 energy (cheaper!)

Roll 2; 40 energy (2 back to back rolls cost 50 energy, same as now)

Roll 3; 70 energy (have to wait for regen, or pop the probe)

Roll 4; 100 energy (not gonna happen)

 

This brings it back into line as a gap closer and escape (what I believe was the original intent), and away from a blanket speed boost ability.

 

If someone runs away from me with their escape ability, I usually need at least 3 rolls to catch up with them. So not too keen on this idea. That kind of system would not be too bad, but it should let you roll 3-4 times, or it's just now as good as the other cap closers and escape abilities.

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