Listen up! These are the rules of Huttball! Two teams. Rebels and Separatists chosen by random draw. One ball, slippery as a greased Hutt! Grab the ball, throw the ball, get the ball over the opposing teams line anyway you can, and your team gets a point! Weapons, name calling, and cheating are all encouraged! But do not kick the ball! Hutts don’t have feet! Show our sponsor Giradda the respect he deserves!

• Do not fly with the ball! Jumping up to platforms only, no flying and no jumping over obstacles.
  
• Do not wreck the Pit! Players cannot alter or destroy the arena!
  
• Uber-abilities are not allowed!
  
• Do not use mind tricks! Force users cannot use mind tricks of any kind on their opponents.
  
• No immortality! All players can be killed, and when they are they respawn.
  
• Each team has a team leader, who are responsible for tactics and organisation.
  
• Each team has a support group of four – but they cannot grab, throw or catch the ball.
  
• Astromech units have an unique ability: they can hack and sabotage the fire traps and wind platforms by hooking up to base of ball holder.
  

So, the teams:

Rebels: From the unruly underbelly of the Galactic Empire, a small band of rebels have landed on Nar Shaddaa! The last of the Jedi and son of the Chosen One, it’s the farmboy from Tatooine: Luke Skywalker! The rogue apprentice of Darth Vader and founder of the Rebel Alliance: Galen Marek! Veteran general of the Clone Wars, and survivor of Order 66: Rahm Kota! Its the lovable droid companion and eccentric astromech: R2-D2! And in support, a squad of Alliance Special Forces.

Separatists: A wealthy assemblage of bankers and businessmen has pooled their resources to procure a team of powerful warriors! Master of Makashi and leader of the Confederacy, it’s the noble from Serenno: Count Dooku! The warlord of Kaleesh, Supreme Commander of the armies of the Confederacy and certainly not a droid: General Grievous! Nightsister, Warlord, Sith apprentice, its Dooku’s protégé: Asajj Ventress! And finally the immortal, invincible, downright disgusting Gen’Dai: Durge! And in support, a batch of Commando droids fresh off the assembly line.

The teams have assembled, the bets have been placed, it’s time to choose a side – the galaxy’s new hope or the infamous arm of the Separatist Alliance? May the winners feast on victory!

I like how R2-D2 needs no introduction.

I feel torn, because I love every single one of the Sep players, but I think the Rebels are simply better.

For clarification: Which Luke Skywalker are we talking about? The Empire Strikes Back? Return of the Jedi? Grand Master? (Please don't say Grand Master.)

I don't see the Rebs being able to get passed Durge...like at all, in fact I don't see him going down at all. He has tanked so much ****, he sees the Jedi all in slow motion, his ridiculous healing factor and so on and so forth. Durge is the biggest obstacle here and the Seps ace in the hole.

Also Warren, I am sure Beni is smart enough to not put in GM Luke.

I don't see the Rebs being able to get passed Durge...like at all, in fact I don't see him going down at all. He has tanked so much ****, he sees the Jedi all in slow motion, his ridiculous healing factor and so on and so forth. Durge is the biggest obstacle here and the Seps ace in the hole.

I agree completely. Durge could easily crush Rahm or R2-D2, as could Grievous.

I hate to say this, but R2-D2 might be even worse than T3. He has no combat abilities whatsoever, at least not against the main players of the Seps. Maybe taking out their four support people, but other than that he has no use in this whatsoever. And that's coming from R2-D2's number one fan. I mean, I have the iPhone case and everything.

I feel like Starkiller and Skywalker are extremely over powered while R2 and Rahm are just weak. This is the same situation as last round, where the Rebels only have half a team, while the Seps have a full arsenal. Rahm would get crushed by anyone. He's just your average joe Jedi. He's also blind.

And as for scoring ability, Grievous and Ventress are crazy agile and flexible. Whereas Skywalker/Starkiller not so much. I think Seps win... unless it's Grand Master Luke. Then he just wins because "He's the best ever." Pff.

Also Warren, I am sure Beni is smart enough to not put in GM Luke.

I very much hope so.

I agree completely. Durge could easily crush Rahm or R2-D2, as could Grievous.

 

I hate to say this, but R2-D2 might be even worse than T3. He has no combat abilities whatsoever, at least not against the main players of the Seps. Maybe taking out their four support people, but other than that he has no use in this whatsoever. And that's coming from R2-D2's number one fan. I mean, I have the iPhone case and everything.

 

I feel like Starkiller and Skywalker are extremely over powered while R2 and Rahm are just weak. This is the same situation as last round, where the Rebels only have half a team, while the Seps have a full arsenal. Rahm would get crushed by anyone. He's just your average joe Jedi. He's also blind.

 

And as for scoring ability, Grievous and Ventress are crazy agile and flexible. Whereas Skywalker/Starkiller not so much. I think Seps win... unless it's Grand Master Luke. Then he just wins because "He's the best ever." Pff.

 

 

 

I very much hope so.

Well Luke is agile and flexible, or at least he has proven to be anyway Galen I am not so sure. But ya its pretty much a 2 on 4 here for the Rebs, and that is depending on what version of Luke were using here.

I like how R2-D2 needs no introduction.

And I think were underestimating Rahm Kota here (whom in this match has his sight). He is a highly skilled Juyo duelist and possess a high level of skill in telekinesis. Able to got toe-to-toe with Galen Marek, an extremely powerful Force user. Oh, and this is ROTJ Luke. Not GM Luke who would ROFLstomp everyone.

This is pretty difficult to judge, but I think the rebels might have this one. The only real problem is Durge, but Starkiller could probably take him out.

I'll think long and hard on this one and post back with me decision.

But on a side-note. GM Skywalker would solo these guys- even Durge. Good thing it's ROTJ Luke.

Ha ha! Lol, I actually just forgot.

 

And I think were underestimating Rahm Kota here (whom in this match has his sight). He is a highly skilled Juyo duelist and possess a high level of skill in telekinesis. Able to got toe-to-toe with Galen Marek, an extremely powerful Force user. Oh, and this is ROTJ Luke. Not GM Luke who would ROFLstomp everyone.

Yes Kota does, but aside from his duel with Galen....his showings against actual opponents are rather lacking. Ok so ROTJ Luke, well then that is better for the Rebs. Or do you mean Rebellion era Luke? I know a lot, just seem to put ROTJ Luke when sometimes they really mean Rebellion era which extends a little further passed ROTJ. If its just up to ROTJ, then Luke is still in the game cause he has the power/showings but am just curious is all.

Yes Kota does, but aside from his duel with Galen....his showings against actual opponents are rather lacking. Ok so ROTJ Luke, well then that is better for the Rebs. Or do you mean Rebellion era Luke? I know a lot, just seem to put ROTJ Luke when sometimes they really mean Rebellion era which extends a little further passed ROTJ. If its just up to ROTJ, then Luke is still in the game cause he has the power/showings but am just curious is all.

By ROTJ Luke I mean Luke at the point where he fought and defeated Darth Vader aboard the Death Star.

Mmmk then, well Durge is still gonna be the biggest thing to overcome. Grevious is next, due to him being able to wield 4 blades at a time then Dooku and then Ventress. I just gotta give it to the Seps, the Rebs can't really bring Durge down and when they try to they are just gonna be taken aback by the other 3.

Side note: The forums seem a lil screwy.

Am I the only one who looks at all these at least its only ROtJ Luke and think that people are highly underestimating Luke at that time the man bested Vader at his best. For those of you who say he only defeated him after tapping into the dark side i suggest watching a bit closer and reading the novel Luke was as much above vader at the end as Vader was above him on bespin. He wasnt trying to defeat vader while vader was giving everything he had to defeat Luke, Luke was litterally not trying only trying to talk to his dad and turn him while vader was pretty much trying as hard as he could to defeat Luke and show him how strong the dark side was. Luke had the upper hand at every point in that fight. It should also be noted that Yoda sent Luke to face not just vader but the emporer as well and said "No more training do you require, already know that what you need." he was pretty much saying if Luke did not underestimate Palp's it was possible that he could defeat his father and then turn and defeat palpatine. Luke is plenty acrobatic as well you see this in his training on dagobah on.

While his saber combat doesnt look fancy you have to remember it is Djem So so its doesnt need to be fancy to be effective if any one ever read the novelization of episode 3 Dooku was actually more exhausted from blocking a single blow from anakin (who became much more powerful as vader) then he did from throwing obi-wan across the room and dropping the scafolding on him. If anakin with just force enhanced strength could do that to dooku imagine what RotJ Luke could do, he toppled his father with his blows, a force enhanced blow from Luke and Dooku is on his knees, same with ventress as anakin beat her the same way with just raw powerful blows (actually duel sabers are at a disadvantage when blocking powerful blows so she would be even more prown to it then dooku).

Obviously i think the rebels have this Galen is greatly powerful with the alter portion of the force which would give him a great advantage against people like grevious and ventress. Luke's massive saber skill along with force enhanced strength and acrobatics make him a match for any one on that team (any one anakin could beat using djem so Luke should have an easier time with as he bested his father in his prime when both were using a much more advanced version of Djem So) R2 will come into play here better then most people think like ben said R2 can manipulate the traps any one who has played Hutt Ball knows the traps are king if R2 can shut down traps or activate them at terrible times it wont matter how tough the enemy team is R2 is frying them and Luke or galen are walking unimpaired all the way to the end zone honostly i think the little astro driods trap control will make this game put the extra troops around the little R2 and let galen and Luke run that ball and the seperatists are screwed by traps.

P.S. Should also be noted that the rebels cannon fodder troops will be much more effective than the serpatists droids as the clone wars showed us human troops are vastly superior to droids they react faster and are better tactically and the rebels are some of the best out there they often fight superior forces and still find a way to come out on top those droids are done for honostly i think the 3 force users on the rebel team will be an even match against all 4 of the serpatists but when taking into account R2's control over the traps and the vastly supperior support troops the rebels have this game hands down.

*SNIP*

Addressing Luke:

No one ever said Luke wasn't a skilled fighter. But listen. How did Anakin do against lightning? How did Luke? What do Ventress and Dooku have? Lightning. Vader did not have lightning, and Luke defeated him. But as soon as the Emperor poored lightning on Luke, he was doomed. He simply did not know how to counter it during RotJ. So yes, Luke is a grade-A duelist. But, unfortunately for him, Ventress and Dooku don't need to best him in combat. They just need to zap him a few times.

Addressing R2-D2:

Sure he can disable the traps and whatnot, but he'll have to be in the smack-dab middle of the arena, where Durge could easily blast him to bits. He doesn't have any defenses, a single grenade from Durge would blow him to bits (Sorry little buddy!). And if he is successful in deactivating the traps, this isn't like the SWTOR game. You don't have to go through the fire. See Grievous and his strange arm things. He could walk under the fire pits. Or Ventress could simply jump over them.

Addressing Troops:

I will try to remain respectful and on topic, but it's hard because you're disrespecting droids. In no way do humans react faster than super-advanced computers, or form tactics faster. That doesn't even make any sense. But anyways, Commando Droids are NOT the B1s you are probably thinking of.

Note their flexibility, their ability to take on Jedi (and win) and the fact that their aim is much much improved. And they're even taking on elite clone troopers, which you say were proved better, and killing them. If anything, it's the rebellion special forces that are at a disadvantage, as they are not even military trained and/or raised to be warriors like the clones these droids are so good at killing.

Addressing Luke:

 

No one ever said Luke wasn't a skilled fighter. But listen. How did Anakin do against lightning? How did Luke? What do Ventress and Dooku have? Lightning. Vader did not have lightning, and Luke defeated him. But as soon as the Emperor poored lightning on Luke, he was doomed. He simply did not know how to counter it during RotJ. So yes, Luke is a grade-A duelist. But, unfortunately for him, Ventress and Dooku don't need to best him in combat. They just need to zap him a few times.

 

Addressing R2-D2:

 

Sure he can disable the traps and whatnot, but he'll have to be in the smack-dab middle of the arena, where Durge could easily blast him to bits. He doesn't have any defenses, a single grenade from Durge would blow him to bits (Sorry little buddy!). And if he is successful in deactivating the traps, this isn't like the SWTOR game. You don't have to go through the fire. See Grievous and his strange arm things. He could walk under the fire pits. Or Ventress could simply jump over them.

 

Addressing Troops:

 

I will try to remain respectful and on topic, but it's hard because you're disrespecting droids. In no way do humans react faster than super-advanced computers, or form tactics faster. That doesn't even make any sense. But anyways, Commando Droids are NOT the B1s you are probably thinking of.

 

 

Note their flexibility, their ability to take on Jedi (and win) and the fact that their aim is much much improved. And they're even taking on elite clone troopers, which you say were proved better, and killing them. If anything, it's the rebellion special forces that are at a disadvantage, as they are not even military trained and/or raised to be warriors like the clones these droids are so good at killing.

Well you do have to note that Luke threw away his saber when he faced sidious like i said he isnt known to be great with alter powers thats galens territory but again Anakin defeated both of these lightning users why? because he knew about lightning and could defend against it something Luke now knows from facing the emporer and he isnt going to be tossing his saber aside like he did when facing the emporer. Luke vs ventress and Dooku will look similar to Sidious vs the 3 masters that acocmpanied Windu.

As to the troops thing Those droids in most of those shots had either a number superiority or a tacticical advantage before engaging with either stealth or better entrenched positions they never appeared to be up against a superior force something the rebels were known for being in all the time. Which leaves the question if these droids were so vastly superior to the clones how did the clones win the war instead of the seps just pumping out more of these droids awnser they werent more effective at the end of the day the best of the clones beat these droids and when it comes down to it elite rebel troops are pretty much the best in the galaxy taking on missions where they are often outnumbered and outgunned by more then 10 to 1 and coming out on top against even the empires finest.

P.S it should be noted that Luke wasnt hit with just any lightning he was hit by sidious's lightning most powerful form there was and tanked it surviving for 10 minutes something windu with all his power was near instantly fried by. So windu a jedi master and one of the most powerful of the oder is fried to death in less then a minute but Luke takes 10 minutes of continued pain and survives. Even if ventress and Dooku were to try to fry Luke I dont think thier power would be enough to stop Luke he was quite good at controlling pain.

*SNIP*

Skywalker:

The point still remains that Luke doesn't know and hasn't be trained to know how to counter lightning attacks. He might catch on during the Huttball match, but he won't be able to counter it effectively. Not to mention all the other dark side powers he's never faced at this point, namely Force Choke. In RotJ, the only Sith Luke has fought is Darth Vader, who didn't use the Force really at all. Dooku and Ventress both use the Force to great extent during their combat. As for pain tolerance, he was still subdued into crying on the floor. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I also don't think that Sidious was actually trying to kill him, like he was with Windu.

Troops:

You say that these troops are so great, but honestly before this thread I'd never heard of them. Can you give me a description and/or a list of accomplishments? Because it sounds as if you are romanticizing them. Rebel troops are not the same as Clones, as you seem to assume. They were not born to be soldiers, nor were they trained from birth on how to combat droids.

Skywalker:

 

The point still remains that Luke doesn't know and hasn't be trained to know how to counter lightning attacks. He might catch on during the Huttball match, but he won't be able to counter it effectively. Not to mention all the other dark side powers he's never faced at this point, namely Force Choke. In RotJ, the only Sith Luke has fought is Darth Vader, who didn't use the Force really at all. Dooku and Ventress both use the Force to great extent during their combat. As for pain tolerance, he was still subdued into crying on the floor. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I also don't think that Sidious was actually trying to kill him, like he was with Windu.

 

Troops:

 

You say that these troops are so great, but honestly before this thread I'd never heard of them. Can you give me a description and/or a list of accomplishments? Because it sounds as if you are romanticizing them. Rebel troops are not the same as Clones, as you seem to assume. They were not born to be soldiers, nor were they trained from birth on how to combat droids.

You mean the "and now young skywalker you die" was him not trying to kill Luke pretty sure that his trying to kill Luke and again when someone says use force both Luke and Vader were using the Force during the entire fight just not the alter as in telekentics or lightning or what not and bringing a lightsaber up to defend lightning attacks is going to pretty much instinctive and he has faced vaders telekentics before part of the reason it wasnt used against him is vader knew his son was beyond using such a trick again Yoda was the one that sent Luke to face not just vader but THE EMPORER as well Yoda was calling Luke greater then himself in episode 3 believing Luke could do what the order had failed to do what he had failed to do. Both yoda and obi-wan believed that all Luke had to do To defeat both "Vader and his emporer" was to steel his resolve and not hold back which he was doing his entire fight with his father and again didnt even fight the emporer at all.

And the exploits of the rebel alliance are to numerous to account for they were outnumbered in every fight they were ever in many fights they did lose but every victory they had was against Storm troopers that outnumbered them by more then 10 to 1 and in some cases had the better advantage over them any of the books covering the time when the empire was in control including books like shadow of the empire and such will tell you the odds the rebels often faced and how they were used to fighting with odds against them and either making it out with minimum cassualties or coming out on top.

P.S his father used force choke and so did he if we are talking RoTJ Luke he was capable and did use force choke just as well as the next person so I am pretty sure if he can use it some one using it against him isnt likely.

Looking at lightsaber forms:

Dooku and Ventress use Makashi, a form based on precision, flow, and efficiency.

Form II emphasized fluid movement and anticipation of a weapon being swung at its target, and so required very smooth motion of both the blade and the body, and practitioners often wielded the blade one-handed for a greater range of movement. Timing and accuracy were relied-upon to defeat one's opponent, rather than strength.

Meaning that Luke and Galen's Form V, Djem So, will be largely ineffective against this more refined form of combat. Their heavy blows that would be so devastating to other duelists will be dodged and deflected, rather than parried.

Looking at lightsaber forms:

 

Dooku and Ventress use Makashi, a form based on precision, flow, and efficiency.

 

 

Meaning that Luke and Galen's Form V, Djem So, will be largely ineffective against this more refined form of combat. Their heavy blows that would be so devastating to other duelists will be dodged and deflected, rather than parried.

LOL and this is where you obviously didn't pay attention to the original Post Dooku AND ventress BOTH LOST in a straight saber fight with anakin who also used Djem so. Luke better Djem so>Vader>anakin also should be noted that Luke's and vaders Djem so also had elements of makashi ataru and soresu in it thus eliminating the weaknesses if dooku faces Luke lightsaber out he is done before he knows what hit him. Like i said already Luke vs Dooku and ventress will looks exactly like Sidious vs the 3 jedi masters that accompanied Windu over in seconds with little effort put up by dooku or ventress not because they arent good just Luke's Djem so is just to advanced and way to power a blow from him just 1 single blow will drop them to there knees a second and they are dead.

LOL and this is where you obviously didn't pay attention to the original Post Dooku AND ventress BOTH LOST in a straight saber fight with anakin who also used Djem so. Luke better Djem so>Vader>anakin also should be noted that Luke's and vaders Djem so also had elements of makashi ataru and soresu in it thus eliminating the weaknesses if dooku faces Luke lightsaber out he is done before he knows what hit him. Like i said already Luke vs Dooku and ventress will looks exactly like Sidious vs the 3 jedi masters that accompanied Windu over in seconds with little effort put up by dooku or ventress not because they arent good just Luke's Djem so is just to advanced and way to power a blow from him just 1 single blow will drop them to there knees a second and they are dead.

Heh.

No.

If you skip to about 1:40 on this clip, that's more how I see this fight going down. Dooku picks Luke up in a choke, throws him down, dead Luke.

"One single blow" and they're dead? Really? Because Dooku did just fine for a good minute against Anakin, deflecting all sorts of blows. And he wasn't even defeated with on of the strong overhead strokes you're describing.

I'm actually not surprised you're overestimating RotJ Luke, this happens every single time he's brought up in one o these threads. But seriously, if you're going to make the argument that he will one-shot people, I suppose I can do the same.

LOL and this is where you obviously didn't pay attention to my original post Obi-wan AND Luke BOTH LOST when the Force was used against them. Like I said Luke vs. Dooku or Ventress will look exactly like Luke and the Emperor when he fried him to a screaming crisp.

Or, they can both just Force Choke him at the same time, crushing his windpipe instantly.

A few things that need to be addressed:

Concerning troops: Commando droids are no doubt highly effective, however the Rebels have Alliance Special Forces which are a cut above from the rank and file. SpecForce troopers have been trained and use an array of weaponry including rifles, grenades and vibroblades and have also been trained in hand-to-hand combat. They are intelligent, adaptable and tactically aware and arguably a match for their droid counterparts.

Concerning Force lightning: Luke was unarmed when Sidious struck him with lightning and so unable to defend himself. Anakin was caught of guard, as in TCW series he has shown the ability to deflect lightning attacks. Given the fact that (in the novelization) Luke was able to partially catch and begin to redirect Sidious' lightning, and his steep learning curve in general, I reckon he'd be able to catch lightning with his blade instinctively.

Concerning lightsaber forms: Makashi is actually inherently weak against the power attacks of more aggresive Forms such as Djem So. And while a skilled user such as Dooku can make up for this weakness, it is the best form to use against them. Note the following:

However, the greatest flaw of the Makashi system of combat was its lack of kinetic energy; the focus on precision and blade control hampered the ability to generate momentum in both its offensive and defensive maneuvers, leaving the attacks easily shunted aside and its parries easily battered aside. This lack of physical force left Makashi practitioners vulnerable to duelists utilizing more contemporary forms, which emphasized power and brute strength. ~ Wookieepedia

Nonetheless Dooku's Force lightning gives him a significant advantage.

P.S. I think I'm going to scrap the scoreboard idea, this debate is too intense!

This Luke vs Dooku is actually a close matchup, it wouldn't be a stomp in any favor. But anyway were getting off track here a little, however the Seps still win there just isn't anything they could do to Durge.

Heh.

 

No.

 

 

If you skip to about 1:40 on this clip, that's more how I see this fight going down. Dooku picks Luke up in a choke, throws him down, dead Luke.

 

"One single blow" and they're dead? Really? Because Dooku did just fine for a good minute against Anakin, deflecting all sorts of blows. And he wasn't even defeated with on of the strong overhead strokes you're describing.

 

I'm actually not surprised you're overestimating RotJ Luke, this happens every single time he's brought up in one o these threads. But seriously, if you're going to make the argument that he will one-shot people, I suppose I can do the same.

 

LOL and this is where you obviously didn't pay attention to my original post Obi-wan AND Luke BOTH LOST when the Force was used against them. Like I said Luke vs. Dooku or Ventress will look exactly like Luke and the Emperor when he fried him to a screaming crisp.

 

Or, they can both just Force Choke him at the same time, crushing his windpipe instantly.

except Luke can use Force Choke against them just as well this is funny like i said EVERYONE underestimates RoTJ Luke you are exactly what i was thinking its not a question of if this is you not paying attention to the actual battle of Luke vs Vader not reading the Books and knowing next to nothing about force abilities outside of alter you underestimate Luke in ever respect he is capable of Force choke he has more force resistance then Obi-wan does telekentics is something vader is known for but vader didnt use it as it was known to be useles against his son at this point and had you read the book again you would know that dooku was hurt more by a single sword strike from anakin then from throwing obi-won around and RotJ Luke is at least if not MORE THEN DOUBLE anakin in every respect. there are more aspects to the force then alter Luke specialized in sensing his suroundings and controlling his own body had he not thrown away his saber its possible he would have defeated palpatine. YODA AND BEN both said so BOTH OF THEM KNEW luke could match up against PALPATINE with or without lightning had he just not thrown his saber away and given up, am i saying Luke would have defeated palp at that time, no i am not all i am saying is yoda who is fully aware of what palp is capable of looked at Luke knowing what he was capable of and went ya you can take him.... if he is > vader and vader is 80% of palp then Luke is at least 90% of palp. The fact that you think either ventress or dooku stand a chance in hell means you like most underestimate Luke.

He was not some padawan at the end of RotJ he was on the level of the greatest the Jedi had ever seen when Lucas was saying Luke was the most powerful jedi ever he wasnt just talking about EU he was talking about RotJ.

awnser this simple question if Luke was not greater then Yoda why would Yoda send him to single handedly do something that the combined strength of him and obi wan could not accomplish to do somthing that even Windu had failed to do. i am going to awnser it for you he wouldnt he sent Luke because his training was complete not just saber training he was just fine in telekentics.

Go watch episode 5 again he would stand on one hand while lifting multiple objects and he goes from that to being over 5 times stronger by RoTJ capable of mind tricks and Choking out Gamoreans with ease a species known for being tough. Takes on a small army of some of the best mercs the galaxy has to offer at jabba's barge single handedly (while boba had been defeated by chance it should be noted that boba had tied Luke up and with his sensory abilities and skill he was able to find and deflect a stray blaster bolt to cut boba's rope) Any one who does not realize that Luke in RoTJ is greater then even the likes of Windu are underestimating him greatly. He isnt some padawan who has no knowledge of the force and just really good with a saber if he was he would have been desimated by vader. Vader trained by using droids that was specialists in ever form of sword combat and had Super human strength speed and durability and would best 2 of them at the same time. This means Luke has some of these same qualities with dials turned up to 11 along with his precognitive powers.

He wasnt bested by just any Force lightning he was bested by the most powerful version of lightning to ever exist lightning that makes dooku's or ventress's look like static electricity and yet with how powerful it was it still took several minutes of completely undefended exposure to FAIL to kill Luke when it only took a matter of seconds of same exposure to SUCCESSFULLY kill Windu. Lets put that into perspective than about Lukes natural force barriers. Windu one of the orders most powerful dead in a matter of seconds..... Luke minutes and survives.

Again I am kind of tired of seeing threads that underestimate ROtJ Luke, acting like if ever faced any one from the prequals or faced any one at all other then Vader (which is funny cus Vader beat A LOT of people) he would be instantly decimated by force powers like he doesnt have any of his own like vader wasnt capable of using powerful telekenetics the only reason none of these things were shown is the same reason dooku stopped trying force lightning on yoda and went for pure saber...... because they would have been useless and every one in that room knew it.

I should note i am not saying Luke can beat any one on this team only that he can MATCH UP to any one on that team and should be able to 2v1 ventress and Dooku do to having similar style and capabilities of the man who beat them only double the strength, power skill and potentially speed thus taking both dooku and ventress out of the fight here had these both not been beaten by anakin using djem so and was it not a known fact that LUke was double anakin and used an even better version of the same style that had already bested these 2 i would not be argueing so heavily in Lukes favor. Grevious i actually find to possibly be a better match against Luke than these dooku or ventress his abilty to attack from 4 angles and his machine body alow him to be more able to with stand heavy blows from Luke and the way that he was beat it is unclear that Luke would actually be able to beat him Although i do believe with his skill in saber and his force powers and Lack of any problem luke has of using technology to help him win i do believe he can fight even with if not beat grevious.

But dooku and Ventress were both bested by a djem so user less then half that of RotJ Luke thus they should be able to be 2v1 by Luke. while galen can take out grevious with force lightning the only ones i dont have enough info on to judge and i have left almost entirely out of this analysis are Durge and Rohm.

Also should be noted i am not argueing galen because most people seem to over estimate him rather then underestimate him like they do Luke. For one thing one of his best accomplishments is, like Luke, he bested darth vader but it never seems to be taken into account WHEN he bested the dark lord. He bested darth vader in between episode 3 and episode 4 and as known from the rise of darth vader novel during this time period vader was actually weaker then anakin. In fact the words of the emporer if truelly listened to can pretty much tell you this, he calls vader a shell of his former self a lot of people took this to mean that vader's potential had been destroyed which it is true that it was but i invite you to take it another way that he, at that time, had not just lost his potential but even his current power was less then anakin. This is supported by several other things including a statement (not sure if it was Lucas or leeland) that said Galen was supposed to be a show of how powerful Luke would have been in episode 5 had he instead of being trained by yoda he was trained by Vader. This to me suggests that Galen was actually slightly weaker then ESB Luke which is supported by the novel Shadow of the empire (chronologically came after ESB and is on the same cannon lvl as FU) where vader calls ESB Luke the most powerful opponent he had ever faced.

Now i know this book was written before the prequels and before FU but they are still in the same universe and technically as the statement can be explained and shown to be true through the use of other novel's that came after FU and after the prequels its statement along with the events of FU dont actually conflict, as like I said Galen didnt defeat ESB vader he defeated a vader that could very well, if not assuradly, was weaker then anakin as such Galen could potentially lose to dooku, though i doubt it more likely that he would fight dooku to a draw and defeat ventress, but do to his ability with force lightning and grevious's entire lack of force powers (not assumed he is not capable of using the force its not the same as luke all of his strength comes from tech not the force unlike Luke) would mean he would be vunerable to this type of attack.

So again remeber that FU and Shadow are the same lvl of cannon and should be treated as such and as you can see here and with support from the novel rise of darth vader both vader losing to galen and then later defeating ESB luke and then calling ESB Luke the more powerful of the 2 can in fact be 100% true and most likely is do to statements made by the emporer in FU and the information given in the rise of darth vader novel.