This question has been going through my brain for a while now, so I'm curious what other people think.

 

In the Original Trilogy, the Rebel Alliance who are the "good guys" are sabotaging the Empire's efforts and trying to cause destruction from the inside. Using violence, the Rebel Alliance finally manages to gain independence from the Empire and become the New Republic. They based their entire war on principles of government and used violence to support their fight.

 

Now rewind twenty or thirty years ago, to Episode II. Several systems are upset about how things are being run in the government and so want to peacefully leave the Republic. However, they meet stern resistance and when they try to execute some spies who are illegally infiltrating and killing some civilians (Obi Wan, Anakin, and Padmé), the Jedi Order begins a massive attack in order to free them. After the CIS tried to put down this invasion, a full-scale Republic invasion of Geonosis begins which leads to the Clone Wars, justified only by retrieving three important people.

 

Frankly, I think the CIS were much more justified than the Rebel Alliance was. It seems that who's good and who is bad is based upon whether or not you believe in Jedi or Sith philosophy. This also forms a strong parallel to the American Revolution and Civil War now that I think about it, however the North had more reason to fight than the Republic did, namely because the Republic is very corrupt at this point.

 

So, post your thoughts and comments about who was morally justified in these wars, and don't just say someone was good or bad because George Lucas wanted it that way. Thanks for non-troll responses.

the original trilogy is a direct parallel of the Imperials - Great Brittain and the Rebel Alliance - USA, so answer your question yourself with that in mind.

but in the movies, the Imperials are right in both cases, prequel and later, the the whole war is caused by the jedis need to eradicate the sith (not the other way around mind you), the whole war was fought and lost by that case alone, very lame imo since the jedi code is a lie and the sith code is something we deal with on a day to day basis in the real world...

but in the movies, the Imperials are right in both cases, prequel and later, the the whole war is caused by the jedis need to eradicate the sith (not the other way around mind you), the whole war was fought and lost by that case alone, very lame imo since the jedi code is a lie and the sith code is something we deal with on a day to day basis in the real world...

As far as the Jedi knew, the Sith had been extinct for a thousand years.

When they finally revealed themselves, the Jedi didn't go hunting them down. They didn't know where to start searching for one thing. The Jedi didn't start the Clone Wars. Sidious' manipulations of the Senate and creating and directing the Confederacy of Independent Systems started the war, thwarting the Jedi's best efforts in promoting diplomacy and trying to prevent war.

The Jedi have never had a "need" to eradicate the Sith, only in stopping their plans for conquest and total domination. Until Bane's Rule of Two, the Sith had usually done a good job of inadvertently assisting the Jedi & Republic in this. Usually with their typical selfishness and backstabbing.

Whenever the Sith have presented as a clear and present danger to the Republic, then the Jedi have reacted.

The Sith code is not something we deal with day to day. It's all about surrendering to one's emotions, to let them sway you and your choices toward becoming "superior" to all others and making them subservient to your bidding. It's entirely about you and no one else.

The Jedi code isn't a lie. If anything it's a far better guideline for living one's life as part of civilisation.

Stepping outside of the argument for the moment I want to connect these parallels to the real world.

Empire vs. Rebellion

--------------------------

Great Britain vs. American Colonies

Rome vs. Britannica and Gaul

Republic vs. CIS

-------------------

American Civil War

As for the philosophical differences between Jedi and Sith:

Jedi vs. Sith

-------------

Stoicism vs. Natural Inclination

Buddhism vs. ""

Superego vs. Id

Apollonian vs. Dionysian

Natural World vs. Civilization

Suppressing feelings vs. Utilizing emotions

------------------------------------------------------------------

The Jedi discourage emotions, especially strong ones.

• Yoda warns Anakin about his fear in Episode I
  
• Jedi are forbidden to marry until the New Republic
  
• Jedi meditate in the Eastern fashion (emotionless)
  

They mainly avoid emotion because of the powerful control it can have over people as it does in the Sith but they do go a bit far. And as I've said before, not meaning any disrespect at all if it sounds offensive, but I equate Jedi philosophy with a kind of militarized Buddhism. Buddhism believes that emotions are harmful for similar reasons.

Everything in the prequel trilogy is manipulated by the Sith...and you left mention of their involvement out completely.

It's irrelevant. A decision can only be justified by the decision-maker's knowledge at the time of the decision. Not a single prominent figure even suspected Palpatine was behind the CIS, at least until Anakin tells Windu that Palpy is a Sith. Even then, they don't have any actual evidence that Palps is behind the CIS, except for the legendary Rule of Two.

Unless there's a Republic law against Sithery, the Jedi had no grounds to arrest Palpatine - Mace certainly had no grounds to threaten to assassinate him. As a sworn Jedi, Anakin was bound by oath to protect the Republic, and Palps was the legitimately elected leader of the Republic. In a sense, Anakin would have been violating his oath if he didn't attack Mace.

As for the clone wars in general, well, wars are never really justified by anything other than power plays on both sides.

I'm not that fond of the CIS, but I don't like how everyone assumes the Jedi side is always right. So from what I can tell, the Trade Federation and Count Dooku have been causing most of the trouble in terms of the assassination attempts. I don't think three spies, despite their importance, should not be the cause of a galaxy wide war which will lead to the death of billions of lives. If the CIS attacked first, then of course they should be able to fight back but they had little confirmation of any invasion taking place and used no diplomatic weight to tell them to stop making such large armies, they just charged in.

Again, you are ignoring the fact that Obi-Wan heard the plans of the C.I.S. leadership., which was to attack the Republic and overwhelm the Jedi, forcing the Senate to agree to any demands they make. Why is this not getting through?

Those 3 weren't the reason for the war. War was inevitable, because it's what Dooku and Sidious wanted. Obi-Wan reported this to the Council, the C.I.S. had no intentions of doing anything but attacking the Republic. This is why they gathered the Jedi to save Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme : War was inevitable, the C.I.S. was building a huge army for that purpose alone, the Jedi would save those 3 and buy time for the Clone Army to show up.

If you know an enemy is preparing for a massive attack, and you have the chance to strike first (while saving 3 incredibly important figures in galactic affairs), you're going to take it.

The droid army wasn't really illegal if the CIS was actually a Confederation of Independent Systems; they should be able to have their own military like the Republic had on a smaller scale to deal with local crises and pirates. .

The Trade Federation provided most of the droids we see in Episode 2 (minus the Super Battle Droids). The Federation was banned from producing a droid army after Naboo. It was illegal.

What I am basically trying to say is that the Republic should have tried more peaceful tactics before invading Geonosis and launching such a destructive war.

Heh, you missed the entire backstory for Episode 2 I guess. The Republic tried negotiations for years, as soon as the C.I.S. was formed and announced their intentions to leave the Republic. But guess who the leader of the Republic was? A Sith Lord! Kind of, you know, manipulating events to push the galaxy into war.

Again, you are ignoring the fact that Obi-Wan heard the plans of the C.I.S. leadership., which was to attack the Republic and overwhelm the Jedi, forcing the Senate to agree to any demands they make. Why is this not getting through?

 

Those 3 weren't the reason for the war. War was inevitable, because it's what Dooku and Sidious wanted. Obi-Wan reported this to the Council, the C.I.S. had no intentions of doing anything but attacking the Republic. This is why they gathered the Jedi to save Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme : War was inevitable, the C.I.S. was building a huge army for that purpose alone, the Jedi would save those 3 and buy time for the Clone Army to show up.

 

If you know an enemy is preparing for a massive attack, and you have the chance to strike first (while saving 3 incredibly important figures in galactic affairs), you're going to take it.

 

 

 

 

The Trade Federation provided most of the droids we see in Episode 2 (minus the Super Battle Droids). The Federation was banned from producing a droid army after Naboo. It was illegal.

 

 

 

Heh, you missed the entire backstory for Episode 2 I guess. The Republic tried negotiations for years, as soon as the C.I.S. was formed and announced their intentions to leave the Republic. But guess who the leader of the Republic was? A Sith Lord! Kind of, you know, manipulating events to push the galaxy into war.

It's been a while since I've seen the movies, so forgive me if I am forgetting some stuff like Republic negotiations with the CIS.

I know Obi-Wan directly overheard their plans for war and told the Council, but I don't think one man's word is sufficient charges along with one assassination attempt to go to war. If you are arguing from the strategic position, they made the right choice, but I still have doubts about the moral justifications; you even admit yourself that the Republic was led by a Sith Lord into this war whom you have argued are stirring up fights quite often. I'm not quite saying that the Jedi are at fault, but the Senate's actions are my concern.

Going back to the Trade Federation army, if their droid soldiers did not operate or were manufactured in systems belonging to the Republic I still think they had every right to build that army according to the measures of the governing powers of the CIS. The Republic should have warned them to cancel the construction of this army and begun to make war plans accordingly. On the other hand, building large armies is usually a problem for other nations such as in post WW1 Germany.

 

Unless there's a Republic law against Sithery, the Jedi had no grounds to arrest Palpatine - Mace certainly had no grounds to threaten to assassinate him. As a sworn Jedi, Anakin was bound by oath to protect the Republic, and Palps was the legitimately elected leader of the Republic. In a sense, Anakin would have been violating his oath if he didn't attack Mace..

(Well ignoring the fact that Anakin knew he was the Chosen One that was meant to destroy the Sith...and Palpatine was bent on changing the Republic and doing away with it's practices...)

They had a witness who happened to be Palpatine's most trusted and close friend. Not to mention the Republic outlawed the practice of being a Sith after the Ruusaan Reformations, 1,000 years before the movie and the last time the Sith had openly declared themselves.

As a Jedi, Anakin is sworn to uphold the ideals of the Republic, and the Will of the Force. Jedi do not serve one man, or solely the elected leader of the Republic, that's asinine. When Palpatine revealed to Anakin that he was the Dark Lord responsible for the war, the one controlling the C.I.S. (hightreason anyone?), the Jedi had all the justification they needed. Of course, they played right into Palpatine's hands (everything in the PT does). But don't forget the Jedi came to arrest Palpatine and put him on trial. Mace didn't decide to end his life until Palpatine resisted arrest, proved Anakin's testimony to be correct, and then went on to attack and murder 3 Jedi High Council members.

But yeah, Anakin totally was serving the Republic...which was soon after transformed into an Empire that embodied the opposite of what the Republic stood for.