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Dread Guard nerf - Catering to the Casual


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'The enrage timer for The Dread Guard has been increased by 30 seconds in Hard and Nightmare Modes.'

 

Nice to see Bioware caving to the casuals (Attn, this pro-nerf thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6425376#post6425376 - in which several members of a guild and others declare the fight impossible, to be proven wrong a few days later).

 

Not really.

 

This is Nightmare mode. This fight has been cleared by multiple guilds now - why nerf it? This decision simply robs the ability to compete for other guilds who still want challenge.

 

This speaks poorly to Bioware's intent to provide challenging content, in my opinion.

Will future content be continually nerfed to the point of Nightmare mode being 'everyone and their mother can clear it in a day-mode'?

Edited by CommunityDroidEN
Less troll, more objective
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'The enrage timer for The Dread Guard has been increased by 30 seconds in Hard and Nightmare Modes.'

 

 

Not really.

 

This is Nightmare mode. This fight has been cleared by multiple guilds now - why nerf it? This decision simply robs the ability to compete for other guilds who still want challenge.

 

This speaks poorly to Bioware's intent to provide challenging content, in my opinion.

Will future content be continually nerfed to the point of Nightmare mode being 'everyone and their mother can clear it in a day-mode'?

 

I suppose DNT brought some of that on themselves but we're all still part of the same community and server. In the future, I'd hope to see less divisiveness and more friendly rivalry. As for the nerf, though, it's certainly tough to argue with Air's points. There are three difficulty tiers and the hardest should require flawless execution by the best players.

Edited by CommunityDroidEN
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Do you think that now with the +30s to enrage timer will make it easy? Most guilds dont reach that far, half way of phase 2 with luck

I beat you 1 credit :D that most will not clear it, the damage and healing that a player has to output is still there

Some of the more hardcore will, but the casual players?? HELL NO , most of the casual cant clear it in HM

BW will need to "nerf" it even more like what they did with Lost Island HM

And i dont call it a nerf, is more of a adjustment :rolleyes:

And on the post about the DG are overtuned, 1 guild(atleast 1 guy that clear it) said that the fight needed atleast more 15 to 30s, so the opinions diverge abit

Edited by ErosGyne
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Do you think that now with the +30s to enrage timer will make it easy? Most guilds dont reach that far, half way of phase 2 with luck

I beat you 1 credit :D that most will not clear it, the damage and healing that a player has to output is still there

Some of the more hardcore will, but the casual players?? HELL NO , most of the casual cant clear it in HM

BW will need to "nerf" it even more like what they did with Lost Island HM

And i dont call it a nerf, is more of a adjustment :rolleyes:

 

Even with 30 seconds NiM DG is still tough as nails. Don't let the 30 seconds fool you, it's still the hardest fight in the Operation.

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...

 

"ENRAGE TIMER is impossible with our current gear (full Underworld)." - <Death and Taxes>

Enkay - 55 Juggernaut, GM

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6425376&postcount=1

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6425897&postcount=50

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6425967&postcount=56

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6426233&postcount=78

DNT streamer saying "mathematically impossible" who basically trolled everyone who stated otherwise.

 

So ya I misquoted a bit.

I think the thread linked above is the reason why this fight was nerfed (unnecessarily), thus the call out.

An 86 page thread like that had to have garnered Dev attention, and perhaps it was read as tons of people agreeing 'yes, it needs a nerf' where I think the majority of that thread was people saying 'no, it does not.'

This nerf is a mistake - we have Seven(or more?) 8 person kills and Three 16 person kills on Dread Guards and it's not been that long, this is the 2nd lock set. I hope it's reversed.

Edited by CommunityDroidFR
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I think the thread linked above is the reason why this fight was nerfed (unnecessarily), thus the call out.

An 86 page thread like that had to have garnered Dev attention, and perhaps it was read as tons of people agreeing 'yes, it needs a nerf' where I think the majority of that thread was people saying 'no, it does not.'

 

It's likely the devs saw the number of people attempting it, and decided that they wanted more people to be able to clear it than the percent that are currently able. I want all the fights to be super difficult as much as the next guy, but 8man was clearly tuned much harder than the rest of the instance, implying they intended it to be easier than it was.

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It's likely the devs saw the number of people attempting it, and decided that they wanted more people to be able to clear it than the percent that are currently able. I want all the fights to be super difficult as much as the next guy, but 8man was clearly tuned much harder than the rest of the instance, implying they intended it to be easier than it was.

 

I think the answer there is to tune the other bosses to a similar challenge level rather than nerf to get things lined up.

On wanting more people to be able to clear content - story mode was made for those who just want to see the content and mechanics and don't really want the maximum challenge. Hard mode is for those who like a challenge, at least on release. And Nightmare is for a select audience, those who want a true, nearly impossible challenge.

 

I'm of the understanding that a large amount of the former SWTOR player base left due to the lack of challenging raid content so I think nerfing is also a negative business decision.

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I think the answer there is to tune the other bosses to a similar challenge level rather than nerf to get things lined up.

On wanting more people to be able to clear content - story mode was made for those who just want to see the content and mechanics and don't really want the maximum challenge. Hard mode is for those who like a challenge, at least on release. And Nightmare is for a select audience, those who want a true, nearly impossible challenge.

 

I'm of the understanding that a large amount of the former SWTOR player base left due to the lack of challenging raid content so I think nerfing is also a negative business decision.

 

Thing is, it was either buff 4 bosses or nerf 1. And nerfing one is far less time consuming.

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I think the answer there is to tune the other bosses to a similar challenge level rather than nerf to get things lined up.

On wanting more people to be able to clear content - story mode was made for those who just want to see the content and mechanics and don't really want the maximum challenge. Hard mode is for those who like a challenge, at least on release. And Nightmare is for a select audience, those who want a true, nearly impossible challenge.

 

I'm of the understanding that a large amount of the former SWTOR player base left due to the lack of challenging raid content so I think nerfing is also a negative business decision.

 

Like I said, I want all the bosses to be challenging, but given guilds were killing Operator/Kephess in less than 5 pulls when DG required 100+, the dev team probably wanted it to be at least a little easier than it was. I doubt the decision was based on threads on this forum.

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Thing is, it was either buff 4 bosses or nerf 1. And nerfing one is far less time consuming.

 

This is true..but any MMO team that wants their endeavour to survive, should be aware that raids are the heart of that survival - and more time devoted to them is better.

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I think the answer there is to tune the other bosses to a similar challenge level rather than nerf to get things lined up.

On wanting more people to be able to clear content - story mode was made for those who just want to see the content and mechanics and don't really want the maximum challenge. Hard mode is for those who like a challenge, at least on release. And Nightmare is for a select audience, those who want a true, nearly impossible challenge.

 

I'm of the understanding that a large amount of the former SWTOR player base left due to the lack of challenging raid content so I think nerfing is also a negative business decision.

 

Players did leave because the original raid content was in no way comparable of what you have today and not because a single mobs enrage timer was "nerfed" by 30 seconds.... . Any guild serious enough about what they are doing did attempt and kill the encounter/ cleared the operation. Nerfing an encounter is what happens in every MMO over time and if you wanted to face the "mathematical impossible" you have to try when it goes live for the first time.

 

At least we now know that the mathematic impossible can be beaten... thanks to that Bioware. :D

Edited by Sziroten
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Hardcore guilds got their challenge whether it was meant to be like that or not.

 

Some managed it beat it so there's a cookie for them to keep that no one else can have.

 

Same goes for the pre-nerf Tanks and Kephess EC NiM.

Edited by Gyronamics
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As a serious player who hasn't yet had the opportunity to enter NiM TFB, I must say that I'm pretty pissed although not surprised. There are already two versions of the raid for those not serious enough to do NiM; I'd go so far as to say that it's insulting to make NiM easier when multiple groups have shown that it is do-able if you're skilled enough.
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So we have:

 

TFB-------?SNV?----------------(?)

June July August September October

 

Asking to make a fight easier is like smoking. You want it but in the end it's bad for you when you look at the bigger picture. Remember a nerf means content is now slightly easier. Which means you are going to blow through content that much faster. Which also increases the chances of you getting bored sooner once you've cleared "everything." Hopefully we can get content fast enough to keep up with the nerfing of fights that are supposed to keep us busy while we wait on the next PVE content. By "supposed to keep us busy" i mean, farming the instance for gear for a couple of weeks. NiM WH, HM DG, NiM Op9, NiM Keph, HM TFB(no bug). By doing this, any guild, can clear NiM TFB (assuming they don't die to mechanics). It just takes time.

 

Its not quantifiable but if you end up getting bored in several weeks remember the forums asked for nerfs to make that Operation easier. If they had kept NiM DG the same, that could have given you.. maybe 2-3 more weeks of farming before ultimately getting burned out of the instsance

 

which we have been raiding since September 26, 2012. It's now July 26, 2013...

Edited by paowee
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I doubt the 30 second extra on the enrage timer will suddenly make everyone kill the Dread Guard. So far all the kills I've seen have had Kelsara enrage and not die until well into the enrage. Guilds who are not ~top 25 (worldwide) will spend a lot of time wiping on the mechanics and only then have to worry about enrage timer, which is still extremely tight.
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I doubt the 30 second extra on the enrage timer will suddenly make everyone kill the Dread Guard. So far all the kills I've seen have had Kelsara enrage and not die until well into the enrage. Guilds who are not ~top 25 (worldwide) will spend a lot of time wiping on the mechanics and only then have to worry about enrage timer, which is still extremely tight.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/swtorfusrodah/c/2467507

 

We barely hit enrage by 1 second and ONLY because our top DPS died 20 seconds prior. And you can't cite group composition either, because we definatly didn't use the prototypical setup (aside from using 3 ranged/1 melee)

 

That kill was 1 shadow dps, 2 commando dps, and 1 gunslinger.

 

 

 

So lesson of the story....surround yourselves with talented players and ya'll can play whatever the heck you want and compete at the top level. IMO I'm confident that, a critical examination of my group members, that at least 6 of the 8 individuals listed in that video could play any class in the game at their max level.

Edited by Felkroth
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