any gift of anyone no matter how small or how large or how you view it, is worth a smile

keep on smiling ppl keep on smiling :D:D

My guess would be that since many of the vocal minority on the forums were up in arms about cartel coins not being a good enough gift for them, BW decided not to give us anything ever again. Ever.

This is probably true, and I wouldn't blame them in the slightest for it.

.

That is standard "customer appreciation". Explain to me what level of customer service that you have experienced elsewhere where hundreds of thousands of people that were given something so awesome that it set your standard to where a month's worth of CC coins being free is not enough.

How about the many other MMOs that have loyalty or veteran rewards programs that give things like pets, titles, storage, character slots, powers, decorative items, respecs, in-game discounts, and more?

And that others are happy to bend over and take their "medicine" raw regardless the pain and then praise the great makers afterwards for administering it.

 

Sadly, there's no middle ground in which rational discourse can occur, is there?

I fail to see how saying "thanks for the free $5" amounts to "bending over and taking their 'medicine'".

Its a free $5.

A free $5.

Free $5.

Free.

My guess would be that since many of the vocal minority on the forums were up in arms about cartel coins not being a good enough gift for them, BW decided not to give us anything ever

I think before slamming people for their views on the validity of the gift.. Backing up a bit, regardless of how some people want to change other people's mind.. Some people did not feel "appreciated" by the gift..

Bioware hyped this up themselves... It's all about creating expectations. If what was said was 'we are giving you additional credit, or a partial refund via cartel coins' there would not be an issue. They picked a word that had heavy intent which created expectations. And the only way people actually get disappointed is when an expectation isn't met..

Because they were told they would be people expected to be appreciated, And measured to their own standards game currency didn't measure up.

... It's a very corporate way of doing things.. Typically stuff like that is how a company appreciates its employees. There's a line in a cartel store growth model prediction accounting for lack of revenue from subscriber appreciation efforts probably

My apologies friend.

I assumed you were familiar enough with my position on this. And we know what they say about assuming.

I think before slamming people for their views on the validity of the gift.. Backing up a bit, regardless of how some people want to change other people's mind.. Some people did not feel "appreciated" by the gift.

That's their problem for assuming. See what I just wrote about my own erroneous assumption?

Bioware hyped this up themselves... It's all about creating expectations. If what was said was 'we are giving you additional credit, or a partial refund via cartel coins' there would not be an issue. They picked a word that had heavy intent which created expectations. And the only way people actually get disappointed is when an expectation isn't met.

BWEA didn't create unrealistic expectations, some people did that to themselves.

Because they were told they would be people expected to be appreciated, And measured to their own standards game currency didn't measure up.

So clue us in. What would have made everyone happy? Some lame title? A speeder? A pet? Some other bit of cosmetic "fluff" that a few would like but others would view as worse than useless? Maybe they should have offered a selection of 500,000 different items.

No matter what it had been, the complainers would have complained just as hard or harder.

How about the many other MMOs that have loyalty or veteran rewards programs that give things like pets, titles, storage, character slots, powers, decorative items, respecs, in-game discounts, and more?

500CC could have gotten you most of those items that you listed.

Bioware hyped this up themselves...

No, they didn't. Players did. You were never told what to expect.

Think of it this way. Say your order pizza and have it delivered. In your appreciation for a prompt delivery of a fresh pizza, you tip the driver a few bucks. After doing so he turns to you and yells "ERMHAHGERD YER SLERPED MER IN MER FERCE! AR DERSERV MOAR!".

That is pretty much what is going on here. They never said that they were going to grant you the best gift in the history of gifts or anything of the sort. They told you that there were going to give you something because they appreciate you.

Tell me where you get more for customer appreciation other than an opportunity to return to do business with them at a later time.

I assumed you were familiar enough with my position on this. And we know what they say about assuming.

 

I have no excuse. I simply and regrettably jumped the gun on that one.

No, they didn't. Players did. You were never told what to expect.

 

Think of it this way. Say your order pizza and have it delivered. In your appreciation for a prompt delivery of a fresh pizza, you tip the driver a few bucks. After doing so he turns to you and yells "ERMHAHGERD YER SLERPED MER IN MER FERCE! AR DERSERV MOAR!".

 

That is pretty much what is going on here. They never said that they were going to grant you the best gift in the history of gifts or anything of the sort. They told you that there were going to give you something because they appreciate you.

 

Tell me where you get more for customer appreciation other than an opportunity to return to do business with them at a later time.

What you may be missing here.. (alongside quoting the rest of my post which didn't seem to hold to your point) is that in many people's social environments, 'appreciating' someone for whatever reason amounts to more than a tip or a voucher.

So people went and appreciated someone themselves, or were previously appreciated by others, and ultimately experienced something deeper than a gift card. This created a calibration for what the actual idea of appreciation means, and when measuring biowares gesture to appreciate subscribers.. it came up as short.

To your argument, maybe consider it a standards thing in relation to the idea of 'appreciation'.

What you may be missing here.. (alongside quoting the rest of my post which didn't seem to hold to your point) is that in many people's social environments, 'appreciating' someone for whatever reason amounts to more than a tip or a voucher.

When the relationship is personal, sure.

So people went and appreciated someone themselves, or were previously appreciated by others, and ultimately experienced something deeper than a gift card. This created a calibration for what the actual idea of appreciation means, and when measuring biowares gesture to appreciate subscribers.. it came up as short.

 

To your argument, maybe consider it a standards thing in relation to the idea of 'appreciation'.

And to your argument, consider that those dissatisfied with the 500 CC are indeed petulant, spoiled, bratty, greedy children who would complain that it wasn't $10 if you gave them $5.

I fail to see how saying "thanks for the free $5" amounts to "bending over and taking their 'medicine'".

 

Its a free $5.

 

A free $5.

 

Free $5.

 

Free.

There is a significant difference between 'Free' and 'At no additional cost.'

Every time someone says that the 'Subscriber appreciation' grant of 500 CC was 'free,' I cringe.

I paid for those cartel coins. I paid over 12 months of subscription time for those 500CC.

And that- that right there- is the difference in opinion between the two factions here on the forums.

Is an additional 500CC a valid 'show of appreciation' to a group of people who have stuck with this game since launch or before?

Yes, we have the Founder title, yes we have the Taun-Taun pet, and if you've got the digital expansion, you've got some other things too. Even more if you're a Collector's Edition member.

But all those were one-time things, and yes, were appropriate at the time.

Since then, BW/EA has implemented a lot of changes to the game, including the Cartel Market- a feature that many subscribers do not appreciate or like at all, and some subscribers don't mind the CM itself but take issue to some features of the CM (gambling packs, pay for rep, ect.) To give these players an additional grant of Cartel Coins is not showing them appreciation at all, in their eyes, as they don't like or use the CM in the first place.

From a marketing standpoing, I can see and cede the validity of granting in-game money to subscribers as a 'thank you' gift- it's easy, and everyone knows giving a gift card is a lot less likely to get someone upset than the possibility of giving a gift that someone doesn't like.

However, at the same time, I can also see and acknowledge the viewpoint that subscribers deserve more than a quick fake 5 bucks for their loyalty and patience with the way the game is being managed. It would be one thing if, as mentioned earlier, we all saw our subscription fee for the month drop 5 bucks, but I think we all know that's not going to happen.

I'm easy to please, honestly. A title, a pet, or a speeder would have been absolutely fine- even if I never used it. I do feel a little put off by the 500 CC, though. Was it a gift? Definitely. Was it free? No. Did it show appreciation? To a lot of people, apparently not.

500CC could have gotten you most of those items that you listed.

For one thing many of the games that give those things as rewards, they are specific to that program, and not available for purchase. For another, these are ongoing programs, where you get the rewards on a regular schedule. Might you be able to buy one or two of these things with your 500CC? Sure. But in these programs you're getting multiple things every reward cycle. And a character slot alone will cost you more than that. Things like titles and pets you can buy a "chance" to get one in a crate. There are no extra powers to purchase or decorative items (since we don't have guild hq's, let's say for your starship). Plus there's actually some thought put into these rewards, and that's what a lot of people were complaining about.

Did they do something nice? Sure. Did they have to do it? No. Just because they did it does that make it on par with similar acts? No. There are plenty of games out there that do it better.

When the relationship is personal, sure.

 

And to your argument, consider that those dissatisfied with the 500 CC are indeed petulant, spoiled, bratty, greedy children who would complain that it wasn't $10 if you gave them $5.

Sadly I don't think that makes sense either.. as subscribers are individual people, and to appreciate them, you have to appreciate their person.. It kinda of fails to materialize if you consider subscribers just an aggregate of people who in aggregate deserve a bone for their loyal real cash stipends every month. Oh wait.. Anyways.. in this context, if you as the other party want your subscribers to feel appreciated, you have do it personally.. there's no aggregate subscriber representative to take a general appreciation... it don't work that way.

Your second point sounds like an Andrayh like generalization, do stop it. Pro tip: When you see what you just described, ignore it.

ps. i'm sure in mmo's and online efforts mmo's go to great lengths to create that sense of person and community for their products. while this would be a unique case, because bioware straight up said they wanted to "appreciate" subscribers, which are people.. it is just a company, for all that means, sure.

LOL! Gotta love how the same 3 people will say anything to defend this game. BW explicitly stated they had something else planned for the end of the month. Expecting said thing at the end of the month doesn't make anyone a spoiled entitled brat. Some of you are soooooo clueless

Agreed.

They think they're so pragmatic and anything anyone else says that's negative about this game is "entitled" or a "hater".

"ERMHAHGERD YER SLERPED MER IN MER FERCE! AR DERSERV MOAR!".

Ok, first of all That was crazy funny. You have no idea how much that made me laugh. Thank you so much for the chuckle!

However I can kind of see why people didnt feel like they were shown much appreciation.

For example (since we are on the pizza thing):

Say I go buy a pizza. The guy making me the pizza says that he put an extra 5 pieces of pepperoni on my pizza to show his appreciation!

Now on one hand Im glad the actually thought of me and put forth an effort to try and make me feel valued as a regular customer. Thats great.

Yet on the other hand, I dont feel like he tried all that hard. The guy probably had 500,000 pieces of Pepperoni back there. Its not like he actually went out of his way. He just gave me a few more pieces of what he already has plenty of during a process that he was already doing because I paid him to do it. Hardly a gesture even worth mentioning. Yet, it was still a nice gesture.

Now with Bioware, these Cartel Coins are like magic. Unlike a piece of Pepperoni, they take absolutely no effort to make. They are virtual currency that Bioware can create with a press of a button. They are literally limitless. Pulled right out of thin air. Which makes getting them as a Gift not all that special.

But for the record, Im glad BW gave me some thought. It wasnt a lot but it was better than nothing. Especially since I didnt even know that they were doing it. I hadnt visited these forums in months and had no idea. So it was a nice little surprise.

Yalls are still missing the making subscribers feel appreciated statement that BWEA made.

This is separate from "gift".

In order to make a subscriber - this subscriber - feel appreciated, BWEA should probably do something that takes more than zero thought and negligible effort. They should think about why subscribers subscribe (hint: not to get cartel coins unless they're incredibly mathematically challenged) and do something according to that.

Heck, I don't want "gifts" to feel like my subscription dollars are appreciated. I would actually prefer that BWEA simply shut up and produce more 2.3's and RotHC's. Less talking, more doing.

You want to show appreciation for subscribers, do that.

It's like the owner of a restaurant I frequent telling me, "hey, you come here a lot and I appreciate your business, here's a gift card to use on a future purchase." and then me spitting in his face telling him he should do something better than that to show his appreciation. You know how many appreciation gifts I will receive in the future? Zero.

Taken completely out of context, you're correct.

Putting it into context, you're completely missing the point.

If your hypothetical restaurant sells all its dishes for $50, and his gift card is for $1, and you can only spend it on certain items, and only if you're already buying other stuff, he's not exactly being very generous.

THAT's what went on with this "gift". They tell us that they price the CM stuff with our stipend in mind which is, of course, 500 CC. Thus everything is priced to make it more expensive so that our stipend is a complete wash: If we didn't get a stipend then things would cost less. That's not being "appreciated", that's being told you're being appreciated and then getting "mathed" right out of the equation.

What BW says is, "Here's a free 500 CC. Everything in the CM is priced 500 CC higher because we know we give you 500 CC. Feel appreciated, and more importantly spend money."

You're oversimplifying to make BW seem like the good-guy. Put it into context and they're really not.

Either your sarcasm detector is faulty or mine is.

My detector is working just fine. I could feel the sarcasm flowing from my screen.

Sadly I don't think that makes sense either.. as subscribers are individual people, and to appreciate them, you have to appreciate their person.. It kinda of fails to materialize if you consider subscribers just an aggregate of people who in aggregate deserve a bone for their loyal real cash stipends every month. Oh wait.. Anyways.. in this context, if you as the other party want your subscribers to feel appreciated, you have do it personally.. there's no aggregate subscriber representative to take a general appreciation... it don't work that way.

The only problem with this is that a company will not waste its resources contacting each and every individual just to ask them what they would like in order to feel appreciated. Unless their asking was the show of appreciation itself. Which, would lead to a whole new series of threads about the failed attempt of the show of appreciation.

Really, there is no way that this company can get to know each and every one of its how ever many subscribers on a personal level.

Evidently it bears repeating considering some folks are dodging it...

It really does not matter how many words you try to spin it. It all boils down to this:

1. You were being told that you were getting a gift.
   
2. YOU determined what that gift should be.
   
3. You did not get that gift.
   
4. YOU feel like you have been poorly done to.
   

You act like free cartel coins is an unheard of level of "appreciation". Now, look at "appreciation" that you get anywhere else.

• Grocery stores give you a points card. Spend enough money, get discounts or something free.
  
• Food and coffee joints give you a punch card. Buy enough meals or drinks, get one free.
  
• Spend enough money at Best Buy/Fry's etc... get some coupons to spend more money with.
  

ALL customer loyalty programs revolve around making it a little bit easier for you to spend MORE money with them.

That is standard "customer appreciation". Explain to me what level of customer service that you have experienced elsewhere where hundreds of thousands of people that were given something so awesome that it set your standard to where a month's worth of CC coins being free is not enough.

Complaining about how much you did not get for free is an undeniably selfish attitude.

ALL customer loyalty programs revolve around making it a little bit easier for you to spend MORE money with them.

 

That is standard "customer appreciation".

I think you might have isolated the core problem right here!

The real world works on the real and established principles of businesses in the context of "customer appreciation"

Whereas......

MMO players work on the self-important and self-involved principle of me me me.... which roughly translates as the "hyperbolic appreciation syndrome".

Complaining about how much you did not get for free is an undeniably selfish attitude.

Agreed.

Interestingly enough.. this seems to be largely limited to internet tantrums. I don't recall ever seeing such meltdowns at the Customer Service counters of any of the major store chains where they do indeed typically reward customer loyalty with some form of credit/points useable only with that store (or a partnered store or business).

So apparently the rules of appreciation are different on internet gaming forums then in real life stores.

Explain to me what level of customer service that you have experienced elsewhere where hundreds of thousands of people that were given something so awesome that it set your standard to where a month's worth of CC coins being free is not enough..

And apparently it bears repeating to you, since I've already given you examples of how other providers in this exact same industry do it far better. Let's look at one specifically. I'll use the City of Heroes veteran rewards program, because I'm most familiar with that one. As an 18 month subscriber (which you would be in this game), here's what I would have received:

6 Badges (titles)

5 Costume change tokes (make as many changes as you like, no cost)

10 Costume pieces (some of these are sets, so it's actually far more than that)

2 Powers (1 a new ability, 1 an aesthetically modified version of a travel power)

1 Respec

1 Character Slot

12 Decorative base items

Now, these are also account wide, so if you have 5 characters, multiply all those numbers by 5 (except the character slot, of course). And all of the costume pieces are only available through this program. In fact, they put their top two most requested (at the time) additions into this program as rewards. Now, given that the character slot alone would be worth more than 500 CC here, given that the ability to make whatever character changes you want could easily add up to more than that, and given how that list above would just keep growing, tell me how 500 CC is on the same level.

And I also have to laugh that you think a punch card is showing appreciation. It's exactly what you said later, a marketing tool to get you to spend money. Appreciation is the gyro place down the street from my house where they know I don't like tomatoes on mine, where the owner once gave me a small bag of scraps for my dog. I've never actually told him I have a dog, but he's seen me walking her around town. A place where the owner once apologized to me for having to wait about 10 minutes for my order at 6pm on a Friday, when they had a line of cars out the drive and down the street for the drive-through, where I've ordered a pint of custard and they've come out with a quart, where the owners ask my roommate how his band is doing. And I don't eat out much, so I only go in there maybe once every month or two. I'm far from their most regular customer.

Yeah, there are plenty of businesses that can show you the difference between a gift and appreciation.

Sadly I don't think that makes sense either.. as subscribers are individual people, and to appreciate them, you have to appreciate their person.. It kinda of fails to materialize if you consider subscribers just an aggregate of people who in aggregate deserve a bone for their loyal real cash stipends every month. Oh wait.. Anyways.. in this context, if you as the other party want your subscribers to feel appreciated, you have do it personally.. there's no aggregate subscriber representative to take a general appreciation... it don't work that way.

So you want a selection of 500,000 different things to choose from.

It don't work that way.

As I've said before, clue us in. What award would have ensured no one would be complaining just has hard or harder? Y'all keep saying or implying "500 CC ain't good enough." So tell us, what is good enough?