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Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

Retro_Chrome's Avatar


Retro_Chrome
05.31.2012 , 11:50 AM | #511
and most vanguards i know never spec for the reduced cool down on reactive shield only the reserve powercell and adreniline rush and the recharge cell reductions
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyrandis View Post
I hate to say this but we are in terms of genetics 96% the same as chimps. We evolved from chimps, but damn I must say that 4% makes all the difference.

Desmosedici's Avatar


Desmosedici
05.31.2012 , 11:56 AM | #512
Quote: Originally Posted by dcgregorya View Post
There's two classes that need a boost and a lot of crying about nothing IMHO (and those two classes are operative and merc, not sorc). Sorcs are fine, stop crying already.
Really? Ops & Scoundrels can at least vanish during a fight or come stealthed and attack you from behind. What can Sorcs/Sages do? Speed force away only to be grappled back? Or apply another bubble that will be popped faster than Lindsey Lohan's cherry?

I can't complain though, thanks to the nerf on Sorcs I've switched to PT and I'm happy with my Pyro. And if they nerf PTs again, I got my Tanksin and Gunslinger ready to be taken to 50.

Jarfunkz's Avatar


Jarfunkz
05.31.2012 , 12:30 PM | #513
Quote: Originally Posted by Desmosedici View Post
Really? Ops & Scoundrels can at least vanish during a fight or come stealthed and attack you from behind. What can Sorcs/Sages do? Speed force away only to be grappled back? Or apply another bubble that will be popped faster than Lindsey Lohan's cherry?

I can't complain though, thanks to the nerf on Sorcs I've switched to PT and I'm happy with my Pyro. And if they nerf PTs again, I got my Tanksin and Gunslinger ready to be taken to 50.
You forget about knockback, stun, mez, snare... call another sorc to pull you, call someone else to pull them, call someone to dps them down,

I would just try to stay out of the 10m range. It is very important.
VicVega

MobiusZero's Avatar


MobiusZero
05.31.2012 , 12:31 PM | #514
Quote: Originally Posted by Desmosedici View Post
I can't complain though, thanks to the nerf on Sorcs I've switched to PT and I'm happy with my Pyro. And if they nerf PTs again, I got my Tanksin and Gunslinger ready to be taken to 50.
Sounds like a FoTM bandwagon jumper, to me. Of course FoTM players will argue that their class is not OP, because once they are no longer OP, they will have to switch to the next OP class.

And no, PT's are not squishy. Operatives, snipers, sages, and non-tanksins, are squishy. Heavy armor, a -25% damage bubble that can be specced to a short cooldown, and a 15% heal = not squishy. Especially with a healer.

Also, let's just be clear that escape tools do not make a class less squishy. Escape tools simply remove them from combat.

And 2 stuns and a virtually unlimited snare, are pretty good escape tools, even so.

You also get a gap closer (grapple), which is an awesome skill for a class with such high DPS (Operatives have been begging for one for ages!).

Jarfunkz's Avatar


Jarfunkz
05.31.2012 , 12:37 PM | #515
Quote: Originally Posted by PicthShemet View Post
" Sentinels are the only DPS class in the game that can stand toe-to-toe with a really good AVG or Pyro"

You mean destroy a really good AVG or Pyro, correct? I'm not misguided here, I think most people are just terrible and love complaining.
Sin/shadow can, gs/snip, op/scoun...

TBH the watchman (dot spec) sent/maras will beat a pyro everytime.

Please keep in mind that we are talking about even skillset and gear for these scenarios and not fresh meat that you guys seems to be using as your population norm.
VicVega

Gidoru's Avatar


Gidoru
05.31.2012 , 12:39 PM | #516
Quote: Originally Posted by Scoobings View Post
A big problem is the fractured player base into such small chunks. I happen to think that most of the classes are relatively balanced, but the player base is so small now on each server that I'm sure it's just one or two good players running around decimating on that server.
Servers were very active after 1.2 for atleast 3 weeks. Some servers are still semi active now. So your assertion that its probably one or two good players killing everyone and therefore causing balance complainst is false and just another excuse to assume the Powertechs are fine when they clearly arent. Guess what, MMO's are rarely if ever 'balanced'. There is always something or some class that is too strong. If you played WoW for any length of time you'd realize this.
Quote:
That's why there's such a long list of "OP" classes right now. Keep in mind that since 1.2 nothing has changed, and I've seen complaints about Vanguards, Mauraders, Tanksins, Snipers, Ops (both healers and DPS), and Sorc utility.
Taking a look through this forum or any other game forum for that matter will quickly make you realize that people will complain about everything and anything. The fact that there is or isnt a thread on a forum has nothing to do with whether or not a class is balanced or not. Particularly seeing as many complaint thread fail to provide any substantive arguments as to why something isnt balance and just mindlessly rant.
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That's a pretty sizable chunk of the population, and I remember right after 1.2 there was all that hubub about Merc burst.
Probably because it was bugged to provide too much damage and was fixed in a patch?
Quote:
Anyway, it's my theory that this is what's causing a whole bunch of hyperbole. For instance, I happen to not think that Pyrotech burst is even that out of line. It seems pretty balanced compared to the utility I get on the other classes I've played at 50, and the total lack of mobility.
It should be pretty obvious if you have played any MMO that no one wants to have their class nerfed. It should also be pretty obvious that the vocal majority who play that class and therefore are bias will go out of their way to defend it, most of the time with baseless and completely false rationalizations. Just look back to pre OPs nerfs when they could basically kill you in 2 seconds while you were stunned and crit for 7-8k. Pretty sure just about every OPs on the forums said it was fine and balanced and used pretty much the same excuse all the Powertechs are. "we have high burst but are the easier class to kill"

Scoobings's Avatar


Scoobings
05.31.2012 , 12:40 PM | #517
Quote: Originally Posted by MobiusZero View Post
Sounds like a FoTM bandwagon jumper, to me. Of course FoTM players will argue that their class is not OP, because once they are no longer OP, they will have to switch to the next OP class.

And no, PT's are not squishy. Operatives, snipers, sages, and non-tanksins, are squishy. Heavy armor, a -25% damage bubble that can be specced to a short cooldown, and a 15% heal = not squishy. Especially with a healer.

Also, let's just be clear that escape tools do not make a class less squishy. Escape tools simply remove them from combat.

And 2 stuns and a virtually unlimited snare, are pretty good escape tools, even so.

You also get a gap closer (grapple), which is an awesome skill for a class with such high DPS (Operatives have been begging for one for ages!).
For starters, he's actually on your side arguing that PTs are OP and that's why he rolled one.

Heavy armor doesn't add much extra armor unless you're in tank stance, which is what people repeatedly have to explain. It's a damage reduction of 35%, which is marginally better than medium armor. Then, considering how little armor actually matters heavy armor is a marginal perk at best.

Our shield doesn't have a short CD, it's on the same CD as everyone else (Between 2 and 3 minutes)

If I hear kolto overload mentioned one more time as a survivability CD, my eyes may explode. I'm not even going to go into why that CD is terrible because if you can't figure it out on your own nothing else I'm going to say here will help because you don't have a solid grasp of game mechanics.

I'm not going to touch the other classes you're talking about because I wouldn't consider myself to have logged enough play time on them to feel qualified to comment (maybe you should take a page from that book) but I will say that snipers have better survivability than PTs. They have over twice as many survivability CDs and a mechanic built into their class that makes them immune to gap closers. My sniper is only level 40 (I've played with stellar snipers at level 50 on my other classes) and my sniper has infinitely more options at his disposal to handle unwanted attention and survival.

The truth is, as people keep trying to explain, Pyrotechs get a paultry 1 defensive CD and that's their weakness. If you're too stupid to exploit that weakness, that's on you.
- Kaeljen, 50 Powertech - Mal'Shek, 50 Juggernaut
- Adien, 50 Assassin - Jest, 50 Sniper
- Kijaar, 15 Sentinel

Jarfunkz's Avatar


Jarfunkz
05.31.2012 , 12:40 PM | #518
Quote: Originally Posted by MobiusZero View Post
Sounds like a FoTM bandwagon jumper, to me. Of course FoTM players will argue that their class is not OP, because once they are no longer OP, they will have to switch to the next OP class.

And no, PT's are not squishy. Operatives, snipers, sages, and non-tanksins, are squishy. Heavy armor, a -25% damage bubble that can be specced to a short cooldown, and a 15% heal = not squishy. Especially with a healer.

Also, let's just be clear that escape tools do not make a class less squishy. Escape tools simply remove them from combat.

And 2 stuns and a virtually unlimited snare, are pretty good escape tools, even so.

You also get a gap closer (grapple), which is an awesome skill for a class with such high DPS (Operatives have been begging for one for ages!).
I often find that snipers are the opposite of squishy.

The snare is what, 2 seconds? Which needs to be reapplied and cost more heat/ammo? I can see you don't play pt/vg, otherwise you would know you can't just go out there and spam what ever you want, it has THE WORST action management in the game.

Escape tools make classes greasy. Greasiness increases your chances of survival. So it does the same thing as increasing your defense.
VicVega

Gidoru's Avatar


Gidoru
05.31.2012 , 01:03 PM | #519
Quote: Originally Posted by Scoobings View Post
For starters, he's actually on your side arguing that PTs are OP and that's why he rolled one.
Heavy armor doesn't add much extra armor unless you're in tank stance, which is what people repeatedly have to explain. It's a damage reduction of 35%, which is marginally better than medium armor. Then, considering how little armor actually matters heavy armor is a marginal perk at best.
Then you obviously dont understand the mechanics in this game at all. The difference between light and heavy armor is about 10-12% damage reduction. Armor reduces damage from Kinetic and Energy type attacks. I could list for you all the abilties that fall into this category but it would be too time consuming. But id estimate that atleast 40%-50% of the abilities in this game deal kinetic or energy damage.
There is literally not a single class in the game that does not have atleast a few energy/kinetic attacks in their rotation.
Explain to me how 10-12% extra damage reduction is worthless? Please try so that you can make a fool out of yourself.
Quote:
Our shield doesn't have a short CD, it's on the same CD as everyone else (Between 2 and 3 minutes)
Energy Rebounder
When you take damage, you have [50 / 100]% chance to reduce the active cooldown of Energy Shield by [1.5 seconds / 3 seconds]. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.
Quote:
If I hear kolto overload mentioned one more time as a survivability CD, my eyes may explode. I'm not even going to go into why that CD is terrible because if you can't figure it out on your own nothing else I'm going to say here will help because you don't have a solid grasp of game mechanics.
15% HP is hardly trivial. Is it the greatest defensive CD in the game? Hardly, but its not terrble either.
Quote:
They have over twice as many survivability CDs and a mechanic built into their class that makes them immune to gap closers. My sniper is only level 40 (I've played with stellar snipers at level 50 on my other classes) and my sniper has infinitely more options at his disposal to handle unwanted attention and survival.
You have no clue what you're talking about here. Snipers do not have more survivability then a Powertech.
Shield probe is about as good as Kolto Overload in terms of health provided from mitigation. Kolto overloard may even be better. Shield probe absorbs around 2000 damage. The cooldown only permits it be used once per fight unless specced into a horrible talent tree.
Dodge has an incredibly short duration and allows you to avoid maybe 2 melee or ranged hits at best, Keep in mind this does nothing agaisnt force and tech attacks. Dodge is not even close to being as good as energy shield which basically gives you 25% damage reduction for the duration of a fight.
Powertechs have 30m stun, Snipers have 4m stun. Powertechs can kite, Snipers cannot. Kiting ability is atleast equivalent to Snipers Knockback and Snare, possibly better if you're really good at kiting. So no, Snipers do not have more survivability.
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The truth is, as people keep trying to explain, Pyrotechs get a paultry 1 defensive CD and that's their weakness. If you're too stupid to exploit that weakness, that's on you.
Yes Pyrotechs have one defensive ability granting them 25% damage reduction for what amounts to the duration of an entire 1v1 fight given that their burst is so ridiculous. Explain to me how this is bad seeing as how thats the highest damage reduction you can get on a long duration cooldown?

In 10 second fight, a 20000HP Powertech has about 29000 effective HP factoring in the damage reduction from energy shield and health from kolto overload.
A Sorc with 20000HP(isnt really possible yet) has about 23000 effective HP in a 20 second fight factoring in static barrier. A sorc also has 12% less base damage reduction from armor.
Both classes have a 4 second stun.
I guess Powertech is really terrible defensively isnt it?

Scoobings's Avatar


Scoobings
05.31.2012 , 01:13 PM | #520
Quote: Originally Posted by Gidoru View Post
Then you obviously dont understand the mechanics in this game at all. The difference between light and heavy armor is about 10-12% damage reduction. Armor reduces damage from Kinetic and Energy type attacks. I could list for you all the abilties that fall into this category but it would be too time consuming. But id estimate that atleast 40%-50% of the abilities in this game deal kinetic or energy damage.
There is literally not a single class in the game that does not have atleast a few energy/kinetic attacks in their rotation.
Explain to me how 10-12% extra damage reduction is worthless? Please try so that you can make a fool out of yourself.

Energy Rebounder
When you take damage, you have [50 / 100]% chance to reduce the active cooldown of Energy Shield by [1.5 seconds / 3 seconds]. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.

15% HP is hardly trivial. Is it the greatest defensive CD in the game? Hardly, but its not terrble either.

You have no clue what you're talking about here. Snipers do not have more survivability then a Powertech.
Shield probe is about as good as Kolto Overload in terms of health provided from mitigation. Kolto overloard may even be better. Shield probe absorbs around 2000 damage. The cooldown only permits it be used once per fight unless specced into a horrible talent tree.
Dodge has an incredibly short duration and allows you to avoid maybe 2 melee or ranged hits at best, Keep in mind this does nothing agaisnt force and tech attacks. Dodge is not even close to being as good as energy shield which basically gives you 25% damage reduction for the duration of a fight.
Powertechs have 30m stun, Snipers have 4m stun. Powertechs can kite, Snipers cannot. Kiting ability is atleast equivalent to Snipers Knockback and Snare, possibly better if you're really good at kiting. So not Snipers do not have more survivability.

Yes Pyrotechs have one defensive ability granting them 25% damage reduction for what amounts to the duration of an entire 1v1 fight given that their burst is so ridiculous. Explain to me how this bad seeing as how thats the highest damage reduction you can get on a long duration cooldown?
Who's talking about 1v1s, and who gives a **** about 1v1s?

Anyway, it doesn't matter. There's so much misinformation, hyperbole, and obvious omission of facts in your post I feel like I'm trying to argue with my wife. Maybe someone else with more patience than me will explain to you why you're wrong, or you could just flip back and read through this exact arguement earlier where people who actually have snipers and PTs proved you wrong.
- Kaeljen, 50 Powertech - Mal'Shek, 50 Juggernaut
- Adien, 50 Assassin - Jest, 50 Sniper
- Kijaar, 15 Sentinel