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Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Powertech Pyrotech deserve the HUGE nerf

Rickwala's Avatar


Rickwala
05.28.2012 , 10:13 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Fdzzaigl View Post
Please remember that burst is the only thing the class has.

Btw, OP's suggestion wouldn't only kill this class in PvP, it would also destroy the totally unrelated PvE tanking AND DPS AS WELL as the tactics middle tree, which is not played much as it is.

Powertech / Vanguard is already a bare-bones class that has little else than burst (in PvP), you do not nerf abilities of a class like this without giving back significantly more other mechanics.
Tell that to arsenal mercs please.

Ewgal's Avatar


Ewgal
05.28.2012 , 10:21 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Underpowered View Post
The proper way to nerf them is to reduce their effectiveness in situations where players most commonly claim they are overwhelmingly powerful, and provide a lesser buff to where players most commonly claim they are weakest to placate them. These two situations are at short range (4-10m) and at long range (15-30m+) respectively. Not that I think that they need a buff to long range capability since they have three excellent skills (Assault Plastique/Thermal Detonator, Incendiary Missile/Incendary Round, followed by Rail Shot/HIB on burning target) and their auto attack to use while they close in on their targets.

I propose the following:
  • Ionized Ignition/Bursting Flame now increases the chance of Ion Pulse/Flame Burst to trigger Plasma Cell/Combustible Gas Cylinder by 15/30/45%, down from 33/66/100%.
  • Superheated Plasma/Superheated Gas now increases the chance of Plasma Cell/Combustible Gas Cylinder to trigger by 5/10/15%. This effect now applies to Ion Pulse/Flame Burst in addition to Hammer Shot/Rapid Shots if it did not do so already. The damage bonus remains the same.
  • Ion Pulse/Flame Burst is now a Physical effect.

Net effect of changes:
  • The ability for Assault VGs/Pyro BHs to keep their targets infinitely snared within their effective kill radius (4-10m) is reduced versus all classes. The new chance of Ion Pulse/Flame Burst to trigger Plasma Cell/CGC is 45+15=60%, down from100%. If it doesn't apply the first time, do it again. The odds of this effect not triggering twice in a row is extremely low (16%).
  • The long-range effectiveness of Assault VGs/Pyro BHs has been increased. Hammer Shot/Rapid Shot attacks now have a 25% chance to trigger PC/CGC, up from 16%. If VGs/BHs really want to continue to whine about their supposedly lack of long-rage effectivness, I would be willing to provide an additional 5% trigger chance for PC/CGC on Hammer Shot/Rail Shot.
  • Healing Sages can now cleanse the PC/CGC dot so that they are no longer an inexplicable free kill.

Discuss.
I think can simply make Powertech less overpowered by making some of the abilities channeled or with a cast time rather than instant. That won't hurt them in PvE, but would make them easier to counter in PvP.
May the farce be with you

Underpowered's Avatar


Underpowered
05.28.2012 , 10:26 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Ewgal View Post
I think can simply make Powertech less overpowered by making some of the abilities channeled or with a cast time rather than instant. That won't hurt them in PvE, but would make them easier to counter in PvP.
I also agree in an ideal world that this is an excellent approach - the simple fact is Pyros have no interrupt counter in their rotation. However this would require a significant reworking to at least one of Flame Burst, Thermal Detonator, Incendiary Missile or Rail Shot, none of which stand out as obvious easy choices (maybe Rail Shot). It's not going to happen - Bioware would rather nerf by numbers than by reworking.
Dany - "Buy one DPS sage, get a mediocre healer free!"
Danbert - #1 Solo ranked tank queue slayer.
---
jedi covenant, formerly from canderous ordo, formely from juyo server

ComeAndSee's Avatar


ComeAndSee
05.28.2012 , 10:30 AM | #34
Walked up to a fire 14k HP recruit gear Pyro Pyrotech yesterday on my 22k WH geared Shield Vanguard.

The dude did 25% of my HP in the opening 2 seconds of the fight and got me down to 20% hp before I killed him. *** is with that?
| Shayera Zhukov | Marshal of The Republic Army | Shield Vanguard | Jedi Covenant |

"It's not cheating unless you get caught."

SinnedQWERTY's Avatar


SinnedQWERTY
05.28.2012 , 10:33 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Awayy View Post
I won't comment on balance issues itself because I feel as though I am no longer in a position to, but I would like to ask a question.

Aren't powertechs really easy for team to burst down in a wz?
Indeed unlike mar/sents PT's don't really have a lot of options once they get focused or an escape for that matter.

Ewgal's Avatar


Ewgal
05.28.2012 , 10:37 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Underpowered View Post
I also agree in an ideal world that this is an excellent approach - the simple fact is Pyros have no interrupt counter in their rotation. However this would require a significant reworking to at least one of Flame Burst, Thermal Detonator, Incendiary Missile or Rail Shot, none of which stand out as obvious easy choices (maybe Rail Shot). It's not going to happen - Bioware would rather nerf by numbers than by reworking.
At the moment your only option against a Pyro is to try to cc, and in PvP if resolve is up then out of luck or if your cooldowns on cc aren't available out of luck again. Certainly flame burst could be made to be channeled or on a cast time, that would make them less op in PvP quite easily.
May the farce be with you

LiveandDieinLA's Avatar


LiveandDieinLA
05.28.2012 , 10:37 AM | #37
There is always going to be a class that has the highest potential damage output.

I think its a good thing that it is PY/Van atm, since they have no stealth, no gap closer (in the spec in question), no pushback, and mediocre defense.
Aeryon / Aerror
Bastion
West Coast PVP

laiboch's Avatar


laiboch
05.28.2012 , 10:41 AM | #38
Ehhh Never really thought that a heavy armor class should do the same damage as a Medium or light armor class. But that's just an opinion.

Heavy armor should have higher survivability, but do less net damage. The problem with Power Tech and Merc is their lack of defensive abilities. So lowering their damage with out giving them some better defensive abilities is a mistake as has been seen in the case of the Merc. In the case of the Power Tech they should lower their damage, but give them better defensive cool downs to compensate. Give their bubble a better cool down and have it obsorb more damage.. Perhaps make their small self HOT have a longer duration and heal for more.

What I really dislike is people calling for a nerf on damage, but then not suggesting things that can be given to a class to compensate for that lost damage. In any class you have to look at changes as quid pro quo if you take something away something must be given back or "This for That"

I think Power Tech's should be hard to kill. They should have really solid Defensive cool downs and be able to put out reasonable damage. Just like any other tank class.

Light armor classes should always be the top damage dealers, but be squishy.
Medium should always be second in damage with a bit higher survivability than light
Heavy should always be last in damage, but have the highest survivability.

By balancing damage in % decreases from group to group and increasing survivability by % you create balance and with that you create rolls and better flow to group mechanics.

Fdzzaigl's Avatar


Fdzzaigl
05.28.2012 , 10:43 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by ComeAndSee View Post
Walked up to a fire 14k HP recruit gear Pyro Pyrotech yesterday on my 22k WH geared Shield Vanguard.

The dude did 25% of my HP in the opening 2 seconds of the fight and got me down to 20% hp before I killed him. *** is with that?
Shield Vanguard is pointless mate, I played one for ages before patch and had a go for it after patch as well when my team-mates asked for it, or when I was unwilling to respec from PvE tank.
And it simply sucks, it sucked back then and it sucks even harder now.

I'm not saying shield lacks usefulness for your team, but it sucks on a personal level.

All your defences, except for your cooldowns, are pointless against all the attacks, except for HiB, an assault puts out, (and not only an assault, also many other classes), that health won't save you either, it never does with the current burst.

It's killing before you are killed that will save you.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rickwala View Post
Tell that to arsenal mercs please.
Topic ain't about arsenal mercs, they aren't in a good position, I agree.
And their spec is still as boring as ever from the looks of it.

mamosh's Avatar


mamosh
05.28.2012 , 10:58 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Ewgal View Post
The nerf powertech needs:
1. railshot should not ignore armor, for instant cast skill 30 meters range completly ignore armor is too OP.

Agreed. Railshot should be toned down.

2. Something should be done with flame burst. It is way too much having 10 meter range instant cast ability with no CD which do high damage, place dot, slow target and ignore armore at the same time. It shoul be placed on 10 seconds CD or have 1.5 sec cast time and it should not ignore armor.

Agreed. I think a 10 second cool-down would make it more reasonable or make it channeled.
so you pretty much asking for them to sit there for 10 secs (time it takes to kill a pt) so you can beat on them freely? how about using your cds? almost all cds reduce/absorb rail dmg since its weapon dmg, all time mara respond cleanse our dot we will overheat

the ideas here with a casting/channeling melee class is just a joke rofl you guys even been in melee range and try to cast something
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