It seems that other game companies value the APAC gaming community, unlike EAware.

 

As some of you know WoW classic is coming soon. It seems Blizzard really want to cater to APAC players and have stated this:

 

We agree with the many WoW Classic enthusiasts in Australia, New Zealand, and Southeast Asia that it will be a very good thing for players in that part of the world to connect to realms that are hosted in that part of the world. Planned it all along! We will have Oceanic realms for WoW Classic, with game servers hosted in Australia[/Quote]

 

That alone has me super excited as I can go back to playing pvp with 10-30ms ping vs 230-260ms ping.

 

But let’s not stop with Blizzard. After reading this and thinking how Bioware have systematically shafted the APAC player base over the years, I decided to look at the industry and trends by regions.

 

One such site has data that shows the APAC region makes the largest amount of revenue in the world in 2015-2017

https://www.wepc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/122-worldwide-game-market-revenue-from-2015-to-2017-in-millions-by-region.jpg

There is a lot of info on this site that it seems to have gathered from other sources and links them. It really is an eye opener. I wonder if anyone at EAware ever looks at things like this or are the accountants too busy looking at spread sheets to cut costs.

 

* China covers 41% of the video game market revenue worldwide, making them the first on the list as of October 2017. (NewZoo, 2017)

* United States covers 32% of the worldwide gaming market revenue as of October 2017. (NewZoo, 2017)

* 36% of the gamers are from the Asia Pacific. (The European Mobile Game Market, 2016)

 

During 2019, China slipped back to second and America first in the amount of game revenue per country. Largely due to China’s 9 month freeze on new game approvals.

But while America might be the number one individual country, they fall back two a resounding second when it comes to regions and is dominated in APAC by nearly double.

 

Now I know a lot of that has to do with China, but even if you remove China from the equation, APAC would still be as large or maybe larger than the NA market.

So it makes absolutely no sense to relegate us as a backwater region for gamer revenue as Bioware do. They are alienating the region and players experience with their games, while other companies are seeing the APAC region as the dominant region and are investing as such.

 

EAware are too focused on NA and EU to recognise that to really be successful with a “global” game or franchise like Star Wars, you need to include the largest region of gamers. Until they do, popularity, revenue and player base for swtor will continue to drop. The same goes for any of their other games that ignore the APAC region. It would seem that unless you speak NA English or are European, then they don’t want your money.

 

Anyway, I know the boats sailed for swtor, Bioware won’t even reopen a west coast server, let alone an APAC server especially when we already have another thread asking for more server mergers which will alienate more of the player base.

Maybe if EA were not so busy trying to cut costs constantly to make money, they could cater to the gamers experience and make more profit with volume over margin. Swtor could be more profitable by having a larger player base vs cost cutting and lack of investment.

But it’s not and that’s what happens when non gamers / accountants / shareholders and CEOs run a gaming company and are more worried about their next quarterly bonuses and margins than the game’s success.

 

As much as I’ve loved swtor more than WoW, it seems with the demise of swtor pvp to trash and the opportunity to play MMO style pvp with 10-30ms, it looks like my choice has been made for me.

I had already unsubbed in protest due to another issue that CS and Musco refuse to fix, but with classic coming soon, I doubt I’ll ever spend another dollar on this game.

Edited August 7, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

I honestly expected better off you Trixie, i expected a lot better.

 

All this amounts to is Blizzard recongising APAC and then you added a lot of dry statistics that by itself doesn't say much followed by a whole load of sour grapes response. If you wanted to leave? the door was always there in the same way the door will always be there if you wanted to return. A glorified "i quit" thread is not obligatory and neither is it needed.

 

Come or stay, it is your choice but a whole song and dance about it isn't needed.

Its a little disingenuous to suggest EA isnt successful, clearly they are.

The problem here is that they didnt want to invest in this game, until whatever changed recently.

they've dropped the ball so badly on virtually every SW property either by poor games or loot box shenenigans etc... that they almost lost the rights to it, so now we are basically whats left.

Will that equate to more servers or expansion... not unless a lot moire people come back or it gains new with the expansion. Which is entirely feasible IF they put marketing money and effort into it.

There are barely enough players in the US to support two servers in one location. Wow has a much bigger player base. Edited August 7, 2019 by Savej

There are barely enough players in the US to support two servers in one location. Wow has a much bigger player base.

^^ this. WoW is a much more successful game as far as number of users is concerned. There may be enough APAC WoW players to justify servers there, etc. But I would assume that BW doesn't think (right or wrong) that there's enough APAC players to justify any emphasis there.

^^ this. WoW is a much more successful game as far as number of users is concerned. There may be enough APAC WoW players to justify servers there, etc. But I would assume that BW doesn't think (right or wrong) that there's enough APAC players to justify any emphasis there.

 

True to a large degree.. but IMO.. it was more of a bean counter at work deciding to cut areas where profit did not meet a minimum of "X" percentage. I rather suspect that it would be in their best interest though to look at the market to see if it would be a good idea to open at least one. The real question becomes: PvP / PvE / or RP ?

I honestly expected better off you Trixie, i expected a lot better.

 

All this amounts to is Blizzard recongising APAC and then you added a lot of dry statistics that by itself doesn't say much followed by a whole load of sour grapes response. If you wanted to leave? the door was always there in the same way the door will always be there if you wanted to return. A glorified "i quit" thread is not obligatory and neither is it needed.

 

Come or stay, it is your choice but a whole song and dance about it isn't needed.

Trixxie has been here for ages, she includes the word quit as part of a larger point, and you chastise her and tell her "there's the door." If you're trying to tank this game, that type of attitude is a great way to help it along toward its inevitable downfall.

I can't really say I agree with the Op. There's no market out there for an old game. SWTOR would need to be retrofitted and redone, and I can't see EA doing that.

I mean did BW screw APAC players over? Yes.

 

Are they going to open an APAC server at this point? Probably not.

I mean did BW screw APAC players over? Yes.

 

Are they going to open an APAC server at this point? Probably not.

 

Yeah, I don’t expect they’d do anything now. I just wanted to point out that WoW understand that APAC is worth it, even if Bioware don’t. The boats definitely sailed on swtor ever getting an APAC server again.

 

The reason this game has continued to lose more and more players is the people with the purse strings don’t care about player experience, ie lag or quality issues. Instead of reinvesting in the development over the years, they continuously cut costs to squeeze ever drop out of swtor with the least amount of money spent,

 

They’ve driven off APAC players 3 times over the years and they even drove off a bunch of west coast NA players too. All to save money on server costs at the expense of player experience and enjoyment.

 

The game could very easily have another 3rd or more players if EAware spreadsheet managers hadn’t been trying to cut costs at every turn. And I’m not just talking about server moves or mergers. They pulled developers and resources from the game for years and then the devs made multiple decisions around having less resources that have made things worse (excessive grind instead of content).

 

I’m sad this game and it’s player base has been treated so poorly by EAware upper management. I think those of us who’ve been here through it all have been some of its ardent fans and dedicated players because we love Star Wars and have only ever wanted what’s best for the game. The same can’t be said for those in EAware upper management and it’s why games like WoW have so many more players and partly why swtor “isn’t WoW” like in player base.

 

I came from WoW to swtor because I love Star Wars. I’ve only stayed because it’s Star Wars. I tried going back to WoW a few times when things got bad here with server moves or development issues I didn’t agree with, but I didn’t like the newer WoW expansions. Now they are launching classic in 18 days and it will be available on APAC servers with 10-30ms for me to pvp on, it’s really a no brainer to test it out again. But I do know if we had swtor APAC servers, I wouldn’t even be considering it.

Bioware handled the APAC stuff badly right from the start with the whole "Red Zoning" of countries, then announcing they were going to host servers in Australia months after launch when people would be unlikely to transfer, sure if they game was a success at launch this might have been different, but the area was clearly an after thought,

 

TBH I cant even remember if they got around to launching the Aussie servers.

Bioware handled the APAC stuff badly right from the start with the whole "Red Zoning" of countries, then announcing they were going to host servers in Australia months after launch when people would be unlikely to transfer, sure if they game was a success at launch this might have been different, but the area was clearly an after thought,

 

TBH I cant even remember if they got around to launching the Aussie servers.

 

We had 3 Aussie servers.

 

1. RP

1. PvE

1. PvP

 

I’ll give you a guess which was the most popular server and had 2-3 times more population before they closed them down? Sadly, if they’d merged all 3, the server would have been as big as Harbinger was at the time. Instead, they default transferred us to Harbinger which nearly broke it.

 

Part of the problem was the RP and PvP servers weren’t as popular because you could do everything on the PvE server that you could do on the other 2.

 

But we didn’t have server transfers available back then, so people on the less popular servers were demanding a merge to make one super server for APAC.

All except a very small but highly vocal RP group who demanded a merge with the US RP servers so they had more people to RP with (Ping supposedly didn’t matter to them)..

 

Guess who Bioware listened to because they thought it would save them money? The minority over the majority, just like they usually do if it will save them costs at the expense of player experience.

 

The problem was, the majority of ALL APAC players quit the game and so the tiny minority that got listened to would have ultimately cost Bioware income because of all the players that left.

That was the first and biggest purge of APAC players because 20ms ping to 200ms was a massive jump for pvper and many pve people.

 

Those of us who stayed had a steep learning curve to get used to that lag and many didn’t and left. Others like myself had to give up ranked pvp because we were often against people who had 20ms ping.

 

There was also a cultural curve to over come because the US servers were more trollish, aggressive in nature compared to the fun banter and laid back attitudes we had on the APAC servers. This was another thing that put some more APAC players off staying.

 

But some of us stuck it out until the second big APAC purge when they moved the west coast servers to the east and added yet more lag to our experience. This was unacceptable to many who just left and it wasn’t just APAC this time, many NA west coast players left too.

 

The problem I was trying to point out in my OP is that EAware upper management don’t give a rats @ about player enjoyment or experience, they seem to only look at margins. They cut costs at the expense of losing paying players.

 

So it makes you wonder, are they totally devoid of what players require or tolerate to play a game or do they have a special equation / algorithm that determines how many players they can lose by cutting costs on server locations and development and still hit profit margin they need for upper management bonuses and shareholder dividends?

 

Them purposely culling customer / players when it’s not needed seems like a broken model and it’s why we have a lower population than we should.

I could understand them merging the APAC servers to the US if they’d gotten as bad as some of the US servers before the last merger, but when you have a healthy population in the region that is the as high as your biggest west coast server, why would you cull the majority of those players?

The same goes with the last US mergers. Harbinger was by far the largest server in the game and it also catered to the remaining APAC players. But instead of leaving a west coast server, they moved it to the east coast and culled more players on purpose.

 

It would have made more “logical” sense to move the east coast servers to the west coast or even Austin TX. Why? Because east coast players can play on the EU servers with roughly the same ping as playing on the west coast servers, giving them more choices. But, west coast players, both APAC and NA only have one choice. Play with an extra 60-80-100ms more ping. Making it unplayable for a lot of APAC players.

Now I’m not saying they should have done that, they shouldn’t have done either because it affects player experience and enjoyment when you get an extra 60-80-200ms more ping because EA want to save costs.

 

If and this is a big IF, management don’t have an equation / algorithm to work out how many players they will lose, then its gross mismanagement and proves they are devoid of understanding their own customers or product.

My guess is bean counters make all the decisions, not business development managers who usually look at growing a customer base, not shrinking it. The accountants are too busy looking inwards on saving costs and not outwards to grow the game.

This is why I think the decision makers at EAware don’t recognise that APAC is such a big resource and they are probably losing money they could be making because they aren’t a gaming company anymore and have no understanding of players. They are an investment company that’s probably at the beckon call of hedge funds.

 

EAware are behind the times and real gaming companies with highly successful games understand that if you ignore a 1/3rd of global gamers, your game isn’t going to be as successful or have as many players.

People can point all they like to how there aren’t as many players as WoW or many APAC players left. But whose fault is that except EAware’s.

They should never have redlined the APAC population at launch and they should have offered non-English support or servers for the APAC region, the same as they did for EU. Essentially, APAC was an afterthought and that’s the problem. EA doesn’t realise it is worth investing in,

Edited August 8, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

I mean it sucks they won't invest more into the game especially considering how laggy things can be for you but... at this point complaining about it isn't likely to change. I sincerely doubt there'll be enough resources for more servers unless a miracle happens. And if you think APAC players are ignored just think of South American ones. Ever since I've started playing I had to deal with 100+/200+ MS, no localized translation... so it could be worse for you, far worse.

 

One such site has data that shows the APAC region makes the largest amount of revenue in the world in 2015-2017

https://www.wepc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/122-worldwide-game-market-revenue-from-2015-to-2017-in-millions-by-region.jpg

There is a lot of info on this site that it seems to have gathered from other sources and links them. It really is an eye opener. I wonder if anyone at EAware ever looks at things like this or are the accountants too busy looking at spread sheets to cut costs.

 

I'm sure they do look at it. Most revenue (ESPECIALLY in that region) is from predatory mobile games. SWTOR is not a mobile game.

 

Most players who might have used APAC servers have long since left the game, and SWTOR is getting old. At this point in time, trying to justify opening a new server (when the game's population is shrinking, not growing) is misguided at best. It doesn't have the fanbase or following that WoW does. It never has.

 

It doesn't make financial sense. It likely never did, but even less so now.

I'm sure they do look at it. Most revenue (ESPECIALLY in that region) is from predatory mobile games. SWTOR is not a mobile game.

 

Most players who might have used APAC servers have long since left the game, and SWTOR is getting old. At this point in time, trying to justify opening a new server (when the game's population is shrinking, not growing) is misguided at best. It doesn't have the fanbase or following that WoW does. It never has.

 

It doesn't make financial sense. It likely never did, but even less so now.

 

While some of this may be true.. IMO most of the reasons that have gradually stifled the life of the game has all been from a continued series of choices which have DRIVEN down the number of players.

 

1. The compression of 8 separate stories into one. While KotFE / ET were good stories (to some of us) ... cramming all of the stories into one was one of the largest mistakes in the history of the game. I made another post on this matter in another thread with better detail ... but wont go into all of that right now!

 

2. Ignoring the festering problems with PvP and failing to add better matches.

 

3. Ignoring the increased amount of bugs .

 

4. All but eliminating the interactions with companions .. essentially turning them into blocks of wood (WoW is just as bad if not worse). Companions have been one of the cornerstone land marks of the game.... essentially now gone !

 

5. MAJOR content drought.

 

6. Excessive grinding that yields very little to poor results for the amount of time spent on a give goal. Most of us that have been involved in "grinding situations" understand what a player is expected to do ... but when the grind produces poor results .. players get restless FAST ! (And I don't blame them).

 

7. NOW this ... To be perfectly honest I've often wondered how folks abroad were able to join us here in the US. I'm glad that all of them are !! I am shocked, however, that some nickle grubbing, penny pinching bean counter took away the means for them to be able to play the game. Let's face it ... that's what happened.

 

"sorry ... you only represent a 12% profit margin... we must have 30 - 45 % for it to be worth our time... BYE !!!"

 

How in the name of common sense can anyone justify the attitude that has been demonstrated repeatedly then wonder why thing keep spiraling downward !

 

There is absolutely no excuse and no reason why someone in a management position ... (frankly I don't give one royally rip-pity ru-ha WHO they are !!! ) Someone has the authority to make things right !!!! Someone has the means and the ability to make it happen.

 

We have seen it WORK ! ... We have seen it work in THIS game. THIS community CAN make it happen.

 

WE WANT it to happen !!

 

Don't look at me like that !! I've been there and done that !!

 

I may be a bit crusty around the edges .. but I AINT DEAD YET !!!

 

Sorry folks .. it just makes my red-white-and blue blood boil when I see this kind of crap happen..

 

[/gets off of soap box]

 

I'll be back in a bit. I need to go take a shower !!

Edited August 12, 2019 by OlBuzzard

I'm sure they do look at it. Most revenue (ESPECIALLY in that region) is from predatory mobile games. SWTOR is not a mobile game.

 

Most players who might have used APAC servers have long since left the game, and SWTOR is getting old. At this point in time, trying to justify opening a new server (when the game's population is shrinking, not growing) is misguided at best. It doesn't have the fanbase or following that WoW does. It never has.

 

It doesn't make financial sense. It likely never did, but even less so now.

 

I’m not asking for them to open one. I’m making a retrospective point.

Yeah, I don’t expect they’d do anything now. I just wanted to point out that WoW understand that APAC is worth it, even if Bioware don’t. The boats definitely sailed on swtor ever getting an APAC server again.

 

The reason this game has continued to lose more and more players is the people with the purse strings don’t care about player experience, ie lag or quality issues. Instead of reinvesting in the development over the years, they continuously cut costs to squeeze ever drop out of swtor with the least amount of money spent,

 

They’ve driven off APAC players 3 times over the years and they even drove off a bunch of west coast NA players too. All to save money on server costs at the expense of player experience and enjoyment.

 

The game could very easily have another 3rd or more players if EAware spreadsheet managers hadn’t been trying to cut costs at every turn. And I’m not just talking about server moves or mergers. They pulled developers and resources from the game for years and then the devs made multiple decisions around having less resources that have made things worse (excessive grind instead of content).

 

I’m sad this game and it’s player base has been treated so poorly by EAware upper management. I think those of us who’ve been here through it all have been some of its ardent fans and dedicated players because we love Star Wars and have only ever wanted what’s best for the game. The same can’t be said for those in EAware upper management and it’s why games like WoW have so many more players and partly why swtor “isn’t WoW” like in player base.

 

I came from WoW to swtor because I love Star Wars. I’ve only stayed because it’s Star Wars. I tried going back to WoW a few times when things got bad here with server moves or development issues I didn’t agree with, but I didn’t like the newer WoW expansions. Now they are launching classic in 18 days and it will be available on APAC servers with 10-30ms for me to pvp on, it’s really a no brainer to test it out again. But I do know if we had swtor APAC servers, I wouldn’t even be considering it.

 

Considering the loss of stock price EA recently endured, maybe they will add another APAC server, try to collect as much money as they can!

I'd love to see any significant investment in the game at this point. Even if it wasn't something that helped my preferred playstyle, any sign of re-investing the profits into the game would be welcome.

I'd love to see any significant investment in the game at this point. Even if it wasn't something that helped my preferred playstyle, any sign of re-investing the profits into the game would be welcome.

 

Amen sister

I'd love to see any significant investment in the game at this point. Even if it wasn't something that helped my preferred playstyle, any sign of re-investing the profits into the game would be welcome.

 

IMO... this is what it's all about.

 

We've seen a number of places where cut backs have obviously been initiated. Some how when you weigh the loss of income over the savings I don't think that the cost/savings/ profits went as expected.

 

I know that no one single individual has requested the installment of APAC. But the implications of reaching out again to those who would benefit from it should be worth more in the long run.

 

Hopefully we will see better results from 6.0 forward. Things did not get out of control over night ... and things will not get fixed over night either.

 

But ... we do have to see a starting point.

IMO... this is what it's all about.

 

We've seen a number of places where cut backs have obviously been initiated. Some how when you weigh the loss of income over the savings I don't think that the cost/savings/ profits went as expected.

 

I know that no one single individual has requested the installment of APAC. But the implications of reaching out again to those who would benefit from it should be worth more in the long run.

 

Hopefully we will see better results from 6.0 forward. Things did not get out of control over night ... and things will not get fixed over night either.

 

But ... we do have to see a starting point.

 

“IF” and it’s a massive ”IF” they ever decided to make another server move, at this very late stage of the game and the fact that APAC have pretty much abandoned the game and EAware for the way they treat us, they could place a server in Hawaii because 98% of all southern and mid APAC traffic goes through Hawaii.

 

This would reduce ping to about 100-150ms for most of APAC and it would also give the western NA players somewhere to play that has lower ping vs east coast.

 

The ping from the west coast to Hawaii shouldn’t be more than 60ms and some would probably have much lower ping than that because they don’t have to get routed across the US’s congested and jumbled backhaul system.

Now wether Hawaii has infrastructure available is another matter. But from a geographical point of view, it makes more sense.

 

You can see what I mean if you look at this submarine cable map. Just move it to the pacific region.

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

Edited August 12, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

Yeah, I don’t expect they’d do anything now. I just wanted to point out that WoW understand that APAC is worth it, even if Bioware don’t. The boats definitely sailed on swtor ever getting an APAC server again.

 

The reason this game has continued to lose more and more players is the people with the purse strings don’t care about player experience, ie lag or quality issues. Instead of reinvesting in the development over the years, they continuously cut costs to squeeze ever drop out of swtor with the least amount of money spent,

 

They’ve driven off APAC players 3 times over the years and they even drove off a bunch of west coast NA players too. All to save money on server costs at the expense of player experience and enjoyment.

 

The game could very easily have another 3rd or more players if EAware spreadsheet managers hadn’t been trying to cut costs at every turn. And I’m not just talking about server moves or mergers. They pulled developers and resources from the game for years and then the devs made multiple decisions around having less resources that have made things worse (excessive grind instead of content).

 

I’m sad this game and it’s player base has been treated so poorly by EAware upper management. I think those of us who’ve been here through it all have been some of its ardent fans and dedicated players because we love Star Wars and have only ever wanted what’s best for the game. The same can’t be said for those in EAware upper management and it’s why games like WoW have so many more players and partly why swtor “isn’t WoW” like in player base.

 

I came from WoW to swtor because I love Star Wars. I’ve only stayed because it’s Star Wars. I tried going back to WoW a few times when things got bad here with server moves or development issues I didn’t agree with, but I didn’t like the newer WoW expansions. Now they are launching classic in 18 days and it will be available on APAC servers with 10-30ms for me to pvp on, it’s really a no brainer to test it out again. But I do know if we had swtor APAC servers, I wouldn’t even be considering it.

 

The APAC servers were closed years ago because they probably did not have enough players to justify a server in that region... and something tells me if they open a server there again there won't be enough people bothering with the game, but I may be wrong.

 

They need some serious marketing for this game, but it's so eroded and kinda old now that players wouldn't be that much ihterested in it for the long term... I mean honestly this game doesn't exist online. No one talks about it, reviews it etc..until recently with onslaught announcement. There were some articles, but by reading the comments it's clear that people will come back.. complete the story in days/ 1 week and will leave again when sub expires after 1 month as it was at launch. This game tried to be successful as a story driven MMO, but no amount of story can keep players in the long run.

Edited August 12, 2019 by DavidAtkinson

The APAC servers were closed years ago because they probably did not have enough players to justify a server in that region... and something tells me if they open a server there again there won't be enough people bothering with the game, but I may be wrong.

 

APAC Total server populations combined were as big or bigger than Harbinger at the time. Even the our biggest server was bigger than many US west coast servers and only slightly less than Harbinger.

Edited August 12, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

APAC Total server populations combined were as big or bigger than Harbinger at the time. Even the our biggest server was bigger than many US west coast servers and only slightly less than Harbinger.

 

If that is true why close ? Makes no sense...

“IF” and it’s a massive ”IF” they ever decided to make another server move, at this very late stage of the game and the fact that APAC have pretty much abandoned the game and EAware for the way they treat us, they could place a server in Hawaii because 98% of all southern and mid APAC traffic goes through Hawaii.

 

This would reduce ping to about 100-150ms for most of APAC and it would also give the western NA players somewhere to play that has lower ping vs east coast.

 

The ping from the west coast to Hawaii shouldn’t be more than 60ms and some would probably have much lower ping than that because they don’t have to get routed across the US’s congested and jumbled backhaul system.

Now wether Hawaii has infrastructure available is another matter. But from a geographical point of view, it makes more sense.

 

You can see what I mean if you look at this submarine cable map. Just move it to the pacific region.

https://www.submarinecablemap.com/

 

You know what's really strange... I wondered about Hawaii ! I make no pretense whatsoever to be that much into the technobabble that many of you obviously are. That said ... hopefully somewhere in the midst of all of this EA will understand that we as consumers are not trying to hammer them into a political strong arming, or publicly twist someones arm into making decisions that are unwise. I do believe however, that it is in their best interests to reevaluate that aspect of the market and reestablish ties to it. It is obvious that there is a large market share to be gained (or to be passed up). After that ... it's up to the game itself to be able to retain that part of the customer base.

 

IMO... it's worth the risk / reward.

 

How much is a persons (company's) name worth ? What legacy do we leave behind ? How do we establish, demonstrate and or maintain a reflection of an image that is characteristic of what we hope that others see correctly.

 

IMO.. I still see the genuine opportunity for EA / BW to regain , grow and expand SWTOR.

 

EASY ?

 

NO !

 

BUT... IMO ... well worth it !