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Guardian/Juggernaut Vigilance/Vengeance Guide (3.0+) by Vesev and AndrewPast

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Guardian/Juggernaut Vigilance/Vengeance Guide (3.0+) by Vesev and AndrewPast

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RPsus
12.08.2014 , 07:07 PM | #21
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veSev's Avatar


veSev
12.08.2014 , 07:40 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
Well I'd think you guys would have tested these things yourself. It is a cleanse, as the ability states. It will not remove player dots, it WILL remove player stuns, I have not tested it on NPC dots yet.
I am not debating its selective use, the lowered cooldown and cleanse of Enraged Defense, but rather we've offered a general build of utilities that offers quite a bit of group utility. The design of that utility makes it is so you asking your healers to slack. I tried it for Torque, 3rd boss in Ravagers which is probably the only place I would take it, and I was unable to use even though I was stunned 3-4 times that fight. Simply, the healers were on top of healing. I am not saying it doesn't have it uses, but rather it doesn't work as efficiently for a group as I think most would like. Personally, I'd rather have the cleanse tied to Saber Reflect. It makes more sense in my mind.

And in truth, I would say utilities are vastly different for everyone. I merely presented a stepping stone for those interesting in getting the most for their 7 points. This doesn't entirely take into account group comp, players skill level, etc. An example of this, why would I take our version of pred as a group utility when we have a sentinel/mara in the group. Sure, they could use their 30 stacks on the ability that converts them to Focus, crit, or alacrity, but their pred also offers a defense chance that mine does not. Have a suggested build that offers a wide array of group utilities was the point of that section. Had I gone into detail about utility swaps per boss, that section would be a HELL of a lot longer.

Anyways, I appreciate the feedback for sure. I will work out a better raiding section to apply what you've suggested.

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veSev
12.08.2014 , 07:45 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaos_KidSWTOR View Post
I'm a little miffed at the Opener, why delay the Reseted Ravage till after Force Scream and VT? Shouldnt it be

ST > FC > [Relic/Adrenal] > Impale > Ravage > Shatter > Ravage > Force Scream > VT ?

Would that yield more DPS or am I just being stupid and Force Scream actually does respectable damage now?
Kind of two parts to this. First half, I believe others have mentioned following your post. Second part is Ravage is now less of the Pie Chart. Pre 3.0, Ravage was roughly 30-33% of our total damage in any given parse. Now, it is roughly 21-24%. Delaying Ravage for an auto crit Force Scream, which does more outright damage than the 1st and 2nd Ravage hits and possibly 3rd unless it crits, is a DPS gained and keeps the rotation flowing compared to using Ravage directly off CD.

PrivatePSYcho's Avatar


PrivatePSYcho
12.08.2014 , 08:39 PM | #24
Thanks Vesev, nice work!

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wadecounty
12.08.2014 , 09:01 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by veSev View Post

Anyways, I appreciate the feedback for sure. I will work out a better raiding section to apply what you've suggested.
Trust me its not really criticism just different perspectives, very appreciative you guys went out of your way to do this. I just think the approach you guys took with the section on the rotation (not listing every move so people will think on their feet) would also apply well to the utilities.

And yeah, the ED thing can be considered being a crutch for your healers, but I don't look at it that way, my perspective is every possible thing I can do to make progress, I'll do it. Otherwise you could call everything that you do above and beyond your specific role a crutch.
Kandel - Juggernaut Lef - Guardian
Nyeetra - Assassin Milarra - Sage
Lendros - Mercenary Jakor - Vanguard
Iseline - Operative Lysandere - Gunslinger

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Lacedemon
12.08.2014 , 09:13 PM | #26
While I tank almost exclusively these days, a few fight specific things I have picked up on. I should add I too think most of our utilities are meh for tanking/dpsing in PvE. Espically when I see what our two Powertechs have:

On Underlurker HM, Pooled Hatred is really really really strong. I would definitely recommend that for that boss. In addition, if you lack a marauder in your group both the run buff on Endure Pain and the group run buff are a welcome sight on that boss in HM.

I like ED cleanse and payback on Torque HM. Sometimes the EP run buff is nice when your in a pickle and beset by fires on all sides.

I also like ED cleanse on Revanite commanders but I think that is more of a tank thing tbh.

On Revan HM there is a lot of wide wide damage for the entire fight, the shorter CD on ED will help a tiny bit there.
Lacedaemon - Juggernaut
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Aienir
12.09.2014 , 08:23 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
...... I have not tested it on NPC dots yet. ...........
Don't know if you tested this yet, but I did on world NPC's (nothing in a FP/OP setting) and it cleansed the dots.
Raif
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Lacedemon
12.09.2014 , 08:48 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Aienir View Post
Don't know if you tested this yet, but I did on world NPC's (nothing in a FP/OP setting) and it cleansed the dots.
In theory it should only cleanse NPC/PvE dots as those are still cleansable. Dots from players on the other and no, but all the other stuff from players it should (snares, most cc's, armour debuffs etc..)
Lacedaemon - Juggernaut
The Red Eclipse EU - GM of Drop it like it's Hoth - http://dilih.eu/
World First TFB and S&V NiM Clear
RWZ Rating: Ranked died on my server

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Aienir
12.09.2014 , 09:32 AM | #29
It's why I mentioned World NPC's and not players. It on'y cleanses NPC dots, not player ones.
Raif
PRIME DEFENSE
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CaptainLunch
12.10.2014 , 03:12 AM | #30
Great work on the guide guys !

I would like to say, numbers will *probably* be better with the 198 4 set and 186 sent 2 set because that 1 min icd is lame .
Fyttov

Dread Master // Gatecrasher // Revanchist