I am a devoted fan to your games Bioware. I have bought Dragon Age Orgins, DA2. Mass Effect 1-2-3. My screen name is "Dragon Age Orgins" from my research I conculded a bunch of the problem's in TOR are not the compelling story game play but the engine itself.

Hero Engine is made from a small time Colony Studios they charge about hundred dollars a year to access their server's and build your game. I must ask why when you are given one of the biggest budget's in MMO history. A great George Lucas Game, why would you pick a small time company to create such a massive game on.

It's simply would have been better to create your own engine, more expensive and time consuming. You bet. But nearly all the problems with the game not being fluid design. They all trace back to the engine itself. The down times, the graphics. It was done to save costs I get that but was it worth this?

I'm not bashing the game. I'm not looking just to insult you. It may come across that way. I am really honestly trying to get a direct NON PR answer to this. It's kinda obvious to just ignore it. Just please break it down for me, for us. Help us understand.

Edited: Quote from Hero Engine's website to offer clues

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

“I need this,” said Gordon. “I am about to start a special project and these tools will let us build and prototype fast and get something running in a hurry.” Gordon is not an excitable guy by nature but this had his adrenaline flowing. “This is just what I need! I want to license your engine.”

We had thought about offering our engine and tools to developers but we had expected that we would have to actually ship a game first, like Epic did with Unreal Tournament before they licensed the original Unreal Engine.

“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”

I guess you missed all the fun!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=338278&highlight=hero+engine

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=131110&highlight=hero+engine

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=222868&highlight=hero+engine

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=201733&highlight=hero+engine

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=157933&highlight=hero+engine

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=135038&highlight=hero+engine

You are like 6 months late lol

If you search the forums a bit, you will find the same thread with more answers. Also if you search the internet a bit you will see that the engine they are using in swtor is not necessarily similar at all with current hero engine.

Edit: someones link-fu is faster...

I guess you missed all the fun!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=338278&highlight=hero+engine

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=131110&highlight=hero+engine

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=222868&highlight=hero+engine

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=201733&highlight=hero+engine

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=157933&highlight=hero+engine

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=135038&highlight=hero+engine

 

You are like 6 months late lol

Do they ever give any answers.

I'm looking through the links. I even see some mod's posting rules about the topic. No answer is given. If they goofed up. Fine but TELL US this. People notice they is a problem, ignoring it only makes people start to talk about why they are keeping quiet.

They needed a cheap engine bc they spent all the money on VO.

IMO I think they should have went with the Unreal Engine 3.5. They already had the rights to use it bc of ME 1,2, and 3.

They needed a cheap engine bc they spent all the money on VO.

 

IMO I think they should have went with the Unreal Engine 3.5. They already had the rights to use it bc of ME 1,2, and 3.

I'm looking at Hero Engine website. This is unreal.

HeroCloud is Here!

Download

ONE SOLUTION TO BUILD AND OPERATE YOUR ONLINE GAME

Build ANY TYPE of online game and get access to the HeroEngine for just $99 a year.

Publish your game as a stand-alone client, stream it to players or let them play it on the web.

We handle & pay for all your servers, hosting, bandwidth & 3rd party technology.

You keep 70% of the money your game makes.

End Quote

So ANYONE can pretty much just pay 100 dollars and get access to Hero Engine. Instead of building their own engine they used a small time company's..

Why

The budget for this game was massive. It should have easily paid for some high tech coders to create a new engine for them to work with. This is why big time corporations don't deal with small time company's. It's game was too massive for the Hero Engine.

Making it been clunky and weird at times. All in the interest in saving some money. If they would have kept their own engine I am betting we wouldn't have two downtime a week and massive problems. I just hope they answer us directly in a long detailed answer, to confirm what we already know.

Do they ever give any answers.

 

I'm looking through the links. I even see some mod's posting rules about the topic. No answer is given. If they goofed up. Fine but TELL US this. People notice they is a problem, ignoring it only makes people start to talk about why they are keeping quiet.

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

Some more info.

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

 

Some more info.

This get's even more unreal. Thanks for the link. I'm updating the main question with this article in mind placing in bold the parts I find interesting.

Quote

“I need this,” said Gordon. “I am about to start a special project and these tools will let us build and prototype fast and get something running in a hurry.” Gordon is not an excitable guy by nature but this had his adrenaline flowing. “This is just what I need! I want to license your engine.”

We had thought about offering our engine and tools to developers but we had expected that we would have to actually ship a game first, like Epic did with Unreal Tournament before they licensed the original Unreal Engine.

“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”

End Quote

Totally unreal but explains so much. It was not optimized from the start. Something people with loading long screens and two down times a week will notice. Why it takes so long to load and why it's so unstable at times. I find it highly interesting.

That Bioware stone wall's us on this issue over seven month's and not a word to comment. Yet on Hero Engine own website they detail how the meeting went and with their own admission they clearly stated the engine wasn't ready.

Despite the warnings. They took the engine anyways and from layoff's I doubt it will get worked out anytime soon. Just wow.

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

 

Some more info.

So many negative posts below that. Quite sad to be honest.

Let me make clear. I am not out to bash Bioware. I actually played their product's from Dragon Age Orgins and bought ever DLC afterwards. I have bought all the mass effect title and I am a active poster on their personal forums. Yet I find something very disturbing.

It seems in the span of seven months, at least seven separate threads with countless replys have been asking the question "Why pick this engine" with no direct answer from Bioware. It only leaves me to find answer's else where. On the main topic of this thread I have updated a statement directly from Hero Engine website provided to me by other posters.

Since the very lack or non information from the people themselves. I had to go this route. Clearly this engine wasn't even ready when they picked it out. It was most likely not even prepared to go fast which explain the long loading screens. It just never got done.

I only wish the company itself would have clearly and honestly told the players about this. Since we are posting on their forum's there is no reason for them not to see it and more over ignore it. Nearly almost every flaw in the game ..leads back to the engine. Loading screens, the down times.

Let me make clear. I am not out to bash Bioware. I actually played their product's from Dragon Age Orgins and bought ever DLC afterwards. I have bought all the mass effect title and I am a active poster on their personal forums. Yet I find something very disturbing.

 

It seems in the span of seven months, at least seven separate threads with countless replys have been asking the question "Why pick this engine" with no direct answer from Bioware. It only leaves me to find answer's else where. On the main topic of this thread I have updated a statement directly from Hero Engine website provided to me by other posters.

 

Since the very lack or non information from the people themselves. I had to go this route. Clearly this engine wasn't even ready when they picked it out. It was most likely not even prepared to go fast which explain the long loading screens. It just never got done.

 

I only wish the company itself would have clearly and honestly told the players about this. Since we are posting on their forum's there is no reason for them not to see it and more over ignore it. Nearly almost every flaw in the game ..leads back to the engine. Loading screens, the down times.

To be honest with you from an avid MMO poster myself. The lack of communication these past weeks and lack of Q&A questions this week is starting to make me feel like they are closing up shop or making a big company decision soon (Going F2P). This is just my pure speculation on the matter. I'll get flamed for it but it's just my opinion on the matter.

To be honest with you from an avid MMO poster myself. The lack of communication these past weeks and lack of Q&A questions this week is starting to make me feel like they are closing up shop or making a big company decision soon (Going F2P). This is just my pure speculation on the matter. I'll get flamed for it but it's just my opinion on the matter.

If you get flamed for it, you're probably right

Let me make clear. I am not out to bash Bioware. I actually played their product's from Dragon Age Orgins and bought ever DLC afterwards. I have bought all the mass effect title and I am a active poster on their personal forums. Yet I find something very disturbing.

 

It seems in the span of seven months, at least seven separate threads with countless replys have been asking the question "Why pick this engine" with no direct answer from Bioware. It only leaves me to find answer's else where. On the main topic of this thread I have updated a statement directly from Hero Engine website provided to me by other posters.

 

Since the very lack or non information from the people themselves. I had to go this route. Clearly this engine wasn't even ready when they picked it out. It was most likely not even prepared to go fast which explain the long loading screens. It just never got done.

 

I only wish the company itself would have clearly and honestly told the players about this. Since we are posting on their forum's there is no reason for them not to see it and more over ignore it. Nearly almost every flaw in the game ..leads back to the engine. Loading screens, the down times.

You are just spamming the same claim over and over. In other words you are trolling.

If they had made their own engine, the game wouldn't even be released for a few more years.

Bioware aren't just paying $99/year for access to HeroCloud, they would've paid $million+ for a full source code license.

With the enormity of the size of the world in SWTOR, it would've made sense to use an engine with lots of rapid prototyping/designing tools like HeroEngine.

And I'm sure the engine has been modified so much by Bioware it would be virtually indistinguishable from HeroEngine now.

People like to blame the engine - but AFAIK, it was just a platform to build upon.

Personally, I think it has less to do with what engine they chose - and more to do with how they implemented animations. They wanted "heroic" combat visually - and in my opinion, they succeeded. You can say what you want about SWtOR - but the MOVES/ANIMATIONS look pretty damn cool and they animate very smoothly.

But when dozens of people animate in close proximity - the engine bogs down and performance is very bad. They've actually improved this aspect of the game a lot - and with a decent CPU, the WZs are now fully playable and smooth.

However, such elaborate and detailed animations are very, very bad for large scale PvP - which is why you'll find most games with large scale PvP (that work well) are games with very limited animations. Age of Conan suffered similarly - and they've yet to make Sieges fully playable.

100$ a year?

Read it again boys, they take 30% income

A-bioware cant code for ****

B-bioware is lazy

C-if they wanted and engine, they could have gotten a fully developed state of the art engine from THQ, but chose to make the choice of pretending they are code gods, wich brings us to points A and B.

They needed a cheap engine bc they spent all the money on VO.

You sure it wasn't beers and a Ferrari each? Something cost waaaaay more than it should, some 2-bit unknown actors & a bad engine shouldn't have been 50,000 yet alone 2 million (or whatever it is now, the figure changes each week on here lol), something is very fishy, ofc mister lucas took a big bite as always, but somethings amiss!

I'd have paid 2 mill tops, not 200! EA needs it's head examined.

because..quite frankly..despite those that won't admit it. BioWare is NOT the same company it used to be. Now whether that's due to BioWare themselves, EA, or a combination of both doesn't matter.

they cut way too many corners now-a-days..look at DA2 as the "best" example (prob worst game they've EVER produced with the most corners cut)

I used to swear by BioWare. Favorite company EVER....now they're just another Activision/Ubi Soft/etc...

I could go on for pages with reasons why this is.

but there ya go. That's the reason...because they seem to think it's "ok" to cut these corners and yet they're still so "high and mighty" about themselves because of past games that they feel they can do no wrong.

it's honestly sad. And I wish they'd bounce back. Sadly, under EA, it won't happen.

because..quite frankly..despite those that won't admit it. BioWare is NOT the same company it used to be. Now whether that's due to BioWare themselves, EA, or a combination of both doesn't matter.

 

they cut way too many corners now-a-days..look at DA2 as the "best" example (prob worst game they've EVER produced with the most corners cut)

 

I used to swear by BioWare. Favorite company EVER....now they're just another Activision/Ubi Soft/etc...

 

I could go on for pages with reasons why this is.

 

but there ya go. That's the reason...because they seem to think it's "ok" to cut these corners and yet they're still so "high and mighty" about themselves because of past games that they feel they can do no wrong.

 

it's honestly sad. And I wish they'd bounce back. Sadly, under EA, it won't happen.

I think they are, and always have been very good at producing something that still works even when they run out of time. Take KOTOR 2 for example of a game where the company ran out of time and it shows.

Unfortunately the EA model seems to be 2 years per game. While it works with sports games and COD kind of games with a lot less story writing, rpg:s might need more time to keep the quality up.

I think they are, and always have been very good at producing something that still works even when they run out of time. Take KOTOR 2 for example of a game where the company ran out of time and it shows.

 

Unfortunately the EA model seems to be 2 years per game. While it works with sports games and COD kind of games with a lot less story writing, rpg:s might need more time to keep the quality up.

no. KotOR 2 was made by Obsidian..BioWare had NOTHING to do with it...nor the time-frame of it.

and no they're not the same company. the "real" BioWare would NEVER have done what they did to DA2...as just ONE example.

wrong wrong and wrong.

but thanks for playing.