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CC immunity is OP


Hexdoll

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OP makes a thread whining about CC immunity, right after making a different thread about the "gear gap" and how SWTOR should adopt a WoW-esque PvP model. I'm now convinced you're either a troll with too much time on your hands. Or a really, REALLY bad player. I'm leaning toward the latter of the 2.

 

Everyone, see this post and move along from the thread.

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lets see when you can use a "hard stun" vs stun immunity

 

use stun when all things are true

CD is up

when opponents resolve is down

when no immunity is on opponent

when within 10m of opponent

when not stunned

when facing the direction of opponent

 

use stun immunity when all things are true

CD is up

not stunned

within 30m (only if leap activated)

 

and to add to that a break free and your stun defense is gone but stun immunity can not be stopped.

 

Yeah lets not dumb it down to "JUGGY SMASH" or anything.

 

Well, you can stun a Smash Juggy any time to your heart's content. Knockbacks, everything work on them immediately even after Charge if they do not have full Resolve.

 

And again, stun immunity is worth less than actually stunning someone. It doesn't stop your opponent from attacking you, from running away, from healing himself etc.

 

The only thing that is worth debating is whether Assassins should have both a 4 second hard stun and CC immunity via Force Shroud. Having both on a high damage, high burst class is a little too much.

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It is a forum sugar muffins, not an academic thesis.

 

It's funny that you're saying this after you've already played the grammar card on a previous poster in this very thread... It doesn't feel very good when the shoe is on the other foot. Does it?

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Well, you can stun a Smash Juggy any time to your heart's content. Knockbacks, everything work on them immediately even after Charge if they do not have full Resolve.

 

And again, stun immunity is worth less than actually stunning someone. It doesn't stop your opponent from attacking you, from running away, from healing himself etc.

 

The only thing that is worth debating is whether Assassins should have both a 4 second hard stun and CC immunity via Force Shroud. Having both on a high damage, high burst class is a little too much.

 

Assassins don't have all of those components in one spec.

 

High burst/ high damage/low survivability when focused ----> deception/deception madness hybrid. Which in turn has an unbuffed CD timer on shroud. Wait 3 seconds and stun. These specs also lack utility. Great for controlling healers and kill switching. Not good for much else in competitive environments.

 

Decent damage/ decent survivability ----> 23/1/17 or 27/1/13 in dps gear. These specs won't burst someone down unless they have help. They're also very susceptible to AoE damage and don't have tank survivability because they're wearing dps gear. They do however have great utility. Great node guards because of that.

 

High survivability/ low damage ----> 31/0/10, 22/17/2, or 31/1/9 in tank gear. Negligible AoE damage slow spam, great survivability due to reduced cd on shroud through lightning reflexes but need 30% defense which costs offensive stats to budget. Minor use of shield and absorb, but also susceptible to AoE damage minus 22/17/2 which has atrocious damage and is best served as a Huttball carrier or full time guard bot.

 

Most of the problems people mention about sins/shadows on this forum come with people not understanding, nor identifying the specs properly. Instead the rhetorical 31/31/31 nerf comments fall down like rain in monsoon season.

Edited by Cowflab
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For a game that CC is a huge part of PVP and some classes only defense, to have other classes that can totally negate is quite silly. As much as I try, I cant see how a Sorc is suppose to defend themselves against CC immunity class or how it does not just kill huttball especially with on the spot re-specing.

 

So your a bubbler who is angry about juggs/jks who cant be cc'ed for 4 secs lol

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It's funny that you're saying this after you've already played the grammar card on a previous poster in this very thread... It doesn't feel very good when the shoe is on the other foot. Does it?

 

I don't mind because you are misrepresenting my earlier post, most probably from lack of comprehension of the nuance in the criticism.

Edited by Hexdoll
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So your a bubbler who is angry about juggs/jks who cant be cc'ed for 4 secs lol

 

So you read my OP and somehow divine I am a "bubbler", yes I use a bubble as all sorcs do but it does not have a stun component if that is what you're asking.

Edited by Hexdoll
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Hexdoll,

 

CC immunity isn't OP. You just don't like it, because it messes with your play style. You need to learn to adapt. I can tell you that, as a Vigilance Guardian, the first thing I'm dropping on you after my leap is a Master Strike; a 3 second, channeled ability that you can run away from. If you move as soon as you see your stun isn't working, I'm potentially out 5k damage. If you're a bubble stunner (I realize you claim not to be, but there's no way for me to actually know) and you're using your bubble as a passive defense against melee, then you only have yourself to blame for using one of your abilities as a crutch. The fact that I have no hard stun that I can utilize while still moving and doing damage fully justifies 4 seconds of immunity to control while I try to get off my single target, channeled ability that may or may not do as much damage as a sweep. Oh, and it's weapon damage.

 

Learn to mitigate your class's weaknesses, rather than calling for frivolous nerfs, because you can't be arsed to evolve your play style.

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Assassins don't have all of those components in one spec.

 

High burst/ high damage/low survivability when focused ----> deception/deception madness hybrid. Which in turn has an unbuffed CD timer on shroud. Wait 3 seconds and stun. These specs also lack utility. Great for controlling healers and kill switching. Not good for much else in competitive environments.

 

Decent damage/ decent survivability ----> 23/1/17 or 27/1/13 in dps gear. These specs won't burst someone down unless they have help. They're also very susceptible to AoE damage and don't have tank survivability because they're wearing dps gear. They do however have great utility. Great node guards because of that.

 

High survivability/ low damage ----> 31/0/10, 22/17/2, or 31/1/9 in tank gear. Negligible AoE damage slow spam, great survivability due to reduced cd on shroud through lightning reflexes but need 30% defense which costs offensive stats to budget. Minor use of shield and absorb, but also susceptible to AoE damage minus 22/17/2 which has atrocious damage and is best served as a Huttball carrier or full time guard bot.

 

Most of the problems people mention about sins/shadows on this forum come with people not understanding, nor identifying the specs properly. Instead the rhetorical 31/31/31 nerf comments fall down like rain in monsoon season.

 

Yeah, who the hell could identify all these bloody specs? Assassins have roughly 2782742 viable hybrids, it's pretty hard to tell the difference.

 

In every spec though they have the most control out of any class. Which also gives them great utility. When you say "poor utility" you just compare, say, Deception to 23/1/17. Compare it to the utility that a Concealment Operative or a Mercenary can offer.

 

Squishy? Balance/Madness is. Deception? Come on. It's just people used to the amazing survivability of 23/1/17 who say that. 25% damage reduction for 6 seconds out of stealth, passive AoE damage reduction, 15 sec CD on Force Speed... and incredible amounts of CC. Also, Shroud and Deflection.

 

Assassin is easily the best, most versatile class in this game. By far. And that would not change if Deception's CC were toned down a little but it would make them less annoying.

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totally agree :d_smile:

 

if a smasher wants to hug a sorc he will :(

they have no respect for boundaries

No means "No"

Lolsmash doesn't have Unstoppable. If he does, he's missing Force Crush - his main short-cooldown skill for generating Singularity (lolsmashes).

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Hexdoll,

 

CC immunity isn't OP. You just don't like it, because it messes with your play style. You need to learn to adapt. I can tell you that, as a Vigilance Guardian, the first thing I'm dropping on you after my leap is a Master Strike; a 3 second, channeled ability that you can run away from. If you move as soon as you see your stun isn't working, I'm potentially out 5k damage. If you're a bubble stunner (I realize you claim not to be, but there's no way for me to actually know) and you're using your bubble as a passive defense against melee, then you only have yourself to blame for using one of your abilities as a crutch. The fact that I have no hard stun that I can utilize while still moving and doing damage fully justifies 4 seconds of immunity to control while I try to get off my single target, channeled ability that may or may not do as much damage as a sweep. Oh, and it's weapon damage.

 

Learn to mitigate your class's weaknesses, rather than calling for frivolous nerfs, because you can't be arsed to evolve your play style.

 

yeah if people would just learn to play their class then they would never get stunned or be knocked off a platform when running the ball in huttball ....... silly really all those respec that happen in huttball at the beginning, those people just do it for variety sake I am sure.

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Hexdoll,

 

CC immunity isn't OP. You just don't like it, because it messes with your play style. You need to learn to adapt. I can tell you that, as a Vigilance Guardian, the first thing I'm dropping on you after my leap is a Master Strike; a 3 second, channeled ability that you can run away from. If you move as soon as you see your stun isn't working, I'm potentially out 5k damage. If you're a bubble stunner (I realize you claim not to be, but there's no way for me to actually know) and you're using your bubble as a passive defense against melee, then you only have yourself to blame for using one of your abilities as a crutch. The fact that I have no hard stun that I can utilize while still moving and doing damage fully justifies 4 seconds of immunity to control while I try to get off my single target, channeled ability that may or may not do as much damage as a sweep. Oh, and it's weapon damage.

 

Learn to mitigate your class's weaknesses, rather than calling for frivolous nerfs, because you can't be arsed to evolve your play style.

 

You assume you are the only one hitting any form of root / stun / cc on a sage. You try playing a sage and go against a lolsmashmonky.

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Well, you can stun a Smash Juggy any time to your heart's content. Knockbacks, everything work on them immediately even after Charge if they do not have full Resolve.

 

And again, stun immunity is worth less than actually stunning someone. It doesn't stop your opponent from attacking you, from running away, from healing himself etc.

 

The only thing that is worth debating is whether Assassins should have both a 4 second hard stun and CC immunity via Force Shroud. Having both on a high damage, high burst class is a little too much.

 

Sins are completely fine, leave them alone. I think we should direct our attention towards Operatives.

 

This has nothing to do with the fact that I have a Sin alt.

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yeah if people would just learn to play their class then they would never get stunned or be knocked off a platform when running the ball in huttball ....... silly really all those respec that happen in huttball at the beginning, those people just do it for variety sake I am sure.

Dude, I think that, essentially, you mean that there's too much CC and ballistics in SWToR, which I completely and utterly agree with.

 

CC immunity itself is a necessary mechanic to validate the presence of certain specs. Without Unstoppable, Vengeance is terribly gimped Carnage without its roots, root-break and on-demand heavy spikes, raw burst neutered by DoTs. Yes, CC immunity may be a bit strong in certain situations, like Huttball. But it's only natural.

 

Certain mechanics shine in certain situations. By that logic, one can state that all pull mechanics are OP because they can be used to plant targets into natural hazards and cause heavy damage/kill them instantly. By that logic, we can call stealth+OOC CC overpowered because one defender can deny node caps for prolonged periods.

 

That's the nature of MMOs. Classes have different strengths and can capitalize on them in different situations. Unless you want an MMO with classes being merely "reskins" of eachother (WoW came dangerously close in WOTLK).

Edited by Helig
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For a game that CC is a huge part of PVP and some classes only defense, to have other classes that can totally negate is quite silly. As much as I try, I cant see how a Sorc is suppose to defend themselves against CC immunity class or how it does not just kill huttball especially with on the spot re-specing.

 

yeah good point. SWTOR is stun, stun, cc, mez, root, snare, stun ... SMASHSMASHSMASHSMASHSMASH. the nerve of a class being able to negate one of the 40 chain CC is beyond reason. if you can't CC, it makes it more harder to SMASHSMASHSMASHSMASHSMASHSMASH.

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You assume you are the only one hitting any form of root / stun / cc on a sage. You try playing a sage and go against a lolsmashmonky.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm talking from the perspective of a Vigilance Guardian, who has CC immunity for 4 seconds after a leap. You're talking about an entirely different class that's susceptible to stuns after leaps (unless they are dumb and respec into Unremitting).

 

In short: wat?

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yeah if people would just learn to play their class then they would never get stunned or be knocked off a platform when running the ball in huttball ....... silly really all those respec that happen in huttball at the beginning, those people just do it for variety sake I am sure.

 

I don't follow what you're talking about. There's a total of two classes that are immune to CC for a period of time; sins/shadows and guards/juggs. I've never said that learning a class makes you immune to stuns or knockbacks. I simply said that understanding your class, in addition to the other classes in the game, gives you an idea of what to expect when you're in PvP. I just gave you the most direct counter to the CC immunity that Guardians have; move your a.s.s.

 

Additionally, you have to understand that this game isn't designed so that every class will be able to 1v1 every other class. As a Guardian, I start immediately calling for help if a PT or Sniper is inbound on my node, because I *know* they're specifically designed to exploit my weaknesses. The harsh reality is that I eat Sorcs for breakfast, because my class is designed to exploit *your* weaknesses. That's just the way it is, and that's what helps keep it team-focused PvP.

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I know parsing this bit of knowledge to you will be like trying to teach a pig to play Rachmaninoff, you have to have intelligence to measure it.

If you have a Sorc that can kill another player in 4 sec...you must post that, its a must see...that is going to be awesome to see how you can damage a shd/***, kill a mar/sent or jugg/grd in 4 sec with a sorc/coun and as a sorc I would take 4 sec stun immunity instead of a "hard stun" any day because immunity and force speed would actually be a viable defense.

 

If you are going to insult people's intelligence you should start by actually having a good grasp of the English language yourself.

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Obviously you are not a heal sage then.

 

You don't know that. Obviously, if you're healing, especially as a sage, you need to have good teammates. As a scoundrel healer, I know how much of a pain in the *** it can be to try to keep everyone alive, only to have half the DPS disengage and thump you, and I'm a much more mobile healer, with decent defenses that allow me to utilize LOS and disengage from fights. Sages are more of a turret, but that doesn't mean they're totally defenseless, especially with someone guarding them.

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For a game that CC is a huge part of PVP and some classes only defense, to have other classes that can totally negate is quite silly. As much as I try, I cant see how a Sorc is suppose to defend themselves against CC immunity class

 

So how does your opinion change with Sorcs getting the most powerful cc (plus stun, plus root, plus damage) immunity in the entire game in 2.0? LOL.

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